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Topic ClosedThey have the right to be Turkish

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Poll Question: Should people in Western Thrace be free to call themselves Turkish?
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Dr Sadik Ahmet View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: They have the right to be Turkish
    Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 11:47
Originally posted by Antioxos

Dr Sadic

 

Instead of sources (even Turkish one) you give us  personal   descriptions

And some nice photos .

First I m not an agent of the Greek state (if something is wrong I also blame it)

Greece as a member of E.U. is obligated to have independent organizations

To protect greek citizens from unfair decisions of the greek state.

These organization are the Greek Ombudsman, Greekhelsinki  , Hellenic Authority for the Information and Communication Security and Privacy and the Hellenic data protection.

 

 http://www.synigoros.gr/ the Greek Ombudsman

http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/ the Greekhelsinki 

http://www.adae.gr/adae/index.html?langid=en 

http://www.dpa.gr/home_eng.htm Hellenic data protection

 

Now about the Turks/Muslims in Rhodes as I can understand nobody have sources.

I ll give you my personal description about them I asked a colleague from Rhodes what did happen with them and he told me very simple that because the island had  large economic progress and these people they create high level of life (their own business etc) .The Turkish consulate tried to control them but they were not interested  Because they have good life in Rhodes .

Sometime poverty bring nationalism (you are trying to find somebody to blame for your low level of life.)

Of course I cannot prove all these.

I don t know if these nice picture and your friend descriptions are good sources.

I ll give you some independent sources

1. http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/ If you search on this source you can find also

Criticism again the greek state

2. http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/ and about Turkey  http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Turkish.php

Report of united human rights for Imvros Tenedos

The Greek islands of Imvros and Tenedos were ceded to Turkey by the Treaty of Lauzanne (1923). These islands had been liberated from Ottoman control in 1912 by the Greek Navy. Under Article 14 of the Lausanne treaty, Turkey assumed the legal responsibility of ruling these islands with a special self-governing status, which was to be exercised by local authorities. Under these provisions order would be kept by a police force recruited from the local Greek population that would also have the responsibility of overseeing the Greek educational system.

Turkey followed here its usual tactic of never abiding by its international obligations. Numbers speak for themselves. In 1920 the islands of Imvros and Tenedos had a population of approximately 10,000 Greeks. Today only a few hundred Greeks remain. In order to accomplish this drastic result, the Turks took a number of measures:

They expropriated the best properties, without compensation, in order to deprive the residents of their means of survival.
Greeks who traveled abroad were not allowed to return and their property was confiscated.
They forbade the teaching of the Greek language.
Imvros was converted into a prison without walls for convicted Turkish felons who terrorized the Greek residents.
Using such dreadful measures, the Turks managed to bring decay to the way of life of the Greek inhabitants and they thought that they would enjoy the fruits of their crimes in perpetuity.

If we want to promote a real activist of human rughts in Greece and Turkey i think Dr Mustafa Mustafa is the person we are lookikg for .
He was never an agent of the Turkish state He is real activist. 
In my next post i ll wright about the human rights of the minority of W Thrace.
These are my sources I m expecting yours
 
There you go;
 
In 1923 the Lausanne Treaty was signed, putting an end to the Greco-Turkish war. A convention signed at the same time provided for a compulsory exchange of populations: about a million and a quarter Greeks left Turkey for Greece, and about half a million Turks returned to Turkey from Greece. But the convention excluded from the population exchange two groups: Greeks living in Istanbul(then Constantinople) and Turks living in Western Thrace. Western Thrace is bordered on the north by Bulgaria, on the south by the Aegean Sea, on the east by Turkey, and on the west by the Greek region of Macedonia. It contains three administrative departments or provinces (nomoi): Xanthi, whose capital is the city of Xanthi (Turkish name: Iskece); Rodope, whose capital is Komotini (Gumulcine); and Evros, whose capital is Alexandroupoli (Dedeagac).
 
This is a report of Helsinki Human Rights Watch. I put it so wide in case you do not know the borders of your own country because whenever we speak about the Turkish Minority you strait go to Turkey. Please concentrate on your/our own country first and let the neighbour in peace for the moment. Try to understand what your own people are suffering and try to heal. Thank you for your understanding.
 
Mean time I also have the following from Helsinki Human Rights Watch.
 
These were publish by the Greek Goverment then
 
1) Kingdom of Greece
General Administration of Thraka (Thraki - Thrace)
Interior Office
Number of Protocol A1043
 
Komotene, 27/12/1954
 
URGENT
 
TO:  The Mayors and Presidents of the Communes of the Prefecture of Rodope.
 
Following  the  order of  the President of  the Government  (Prime Minister) we ask
you  that  from  now  on  and  in  all  occasions  the  terms  "Turk-Turkish"  are  used
instead of the terms "Muslim- of Muslim".
The General Administrator of Thraka
G. Fessopoulos
 
(upon request original text in Greek can be scanned and posted)
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 
2) Kingdom of Greece
General Administration of Thraka (Thraki - Thrace)
Interior Office
Number of Protocol A202
 
Komotene, 5/2/1955 
 
In  spite  of  the  strict  orders  of  the  government  to  replace  the  terms "Muslim-of Muslim" and use from now on the terms "Turk-Turkish",  in the village Aratos on the public road connecting Komotene and Alexandroupole there exists a very prominent sign with the words "Muslim School". 
It,  as well  as  any  other  such  signs  that might  exist  in  the  area  of  the Prefecture of Rodope, should be replaced immediately.
 
The General Administrator of Thraka
G. Fessopoulos
 
(upon request original text in Greek can be scanned and posted)
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Agapite (dear) Antioxos to carry on with my posts and replies I need to know what you think about the Minority in western Thrace. Otherwise it will be needless to share my personal experiences and the reports on the matter with you.
 
Awaiting you reply on above question and Article 19 (stop hinting that my experiences are not reflecting the truth - all references can be and will be provided upon request - moreover, you will see that personal experiences take a huge part in most reports).


Edited by Dr Sadik Ahmet - 17-Jun-2006 at 12:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 11:56
Originally posted by VARLAAM

Greece is not trying to create a Pomak grammar
Pomaks themshelf creating their own dictionary and grammar
and Greece is obligated to help them.
Ritwan Karahonza a Pomak teacher create the Pomak dictionary.
His dream is the Pomak language to be teached in schools.
There is a book in Pomak <<Παραμύθια και τραγούδια των Πομάκων της ορεινής Ξάνθης>> <Stories and songs of mountain Ksanthi Pomaks> (translated also in Greek) from Ali Rogo one of the most
famous Pomak singers in Thrace.
 
Well now you are really telling me paramithia tis Halimas (not related stories). Everybosy knows that those guys work for the Greek Goverment and try to manipulate the Turkish education System in Manority Schools. Well do not ask me for references as it will be very difficult to explain the under table money.
 
Meantime, please show me something that will make me believe that those guys have asked for someone to write them such grammar book. I think someone is trying to fool us here.


Edited by Dr Sadik Ahmet - 17-Jun-2006 at 12:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 12:15

Greek Minister of Justice Athanassios Kanellopoulos said that there are 150,000 Greek citizens of Moslem faith in Western Thrace. This figure includes Turkish Moslems, Pomaks and Gypsies, all of whom are Turkish-speaking (so no need for pomak grammar books). The Greek government contends that these are three separate groups;  the Turkish minority claims that all consider themselves Turkish.  (reference: interview of newspaper cumhuriyet and human rights watch report - 1990)

Well as long as all consider themselves as Turks who are the third parties to criticise their Turquality... So manipulating...



Edited by Dr Sadik Ahmet - 17-Jun-2006 at 12:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 12:25

Question

The Republic of Turkey was created in 1923. Why do some people that live in Bulgaria , Cyprus or Greece call themselves "Turks"? Unless they migrated there from the Republic of Turkey(after 1923), I see no reason for these "Turks" to call themselves that. I know that some western countries were using the term "Turchia" to identify the Ottomans of Anatolia years before. Were the Ottomans referring themselves as "Turks"?
 
Maybe The "Turks of Thrace should be referring themselves as Serbs, Albanians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Persians, etc...
 
 
 
People should stop isolating themselves and accept the "communities" they live in.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 12:27
Originally posted by Dr Sadik Ahmet

Meantime, please show me something that will make me believe that those guys have asked for someone to write them such grammar book. I think someone is trying to fool as here.


If the Greek government is so "concerned" about the Pomak language, shouldn't it also care about the language of"slavophonic" Greeks as nationalist Greeks keep on calling them. Essentially Pomak and "Slavophonic"(?) are the same language so shouldn't "slavophonic" Greeks in Florina also have the right to learn this newly invented and rediscovered by the Greek State Pomak language, or would Greece in her attempt to break up the minorities into ever decreasing in size blocks also "invent" yet another grammar for the slavophones in Florina?

It really does not take a genius to see what lies behind this sudden conern for the Pomak language, and while I support these cosmetic effort of Greece to introduce the Pomak languages (I'd like to see the face of Bulgarians when pomaks accross the border start demand learning PomakLOL), I strongly believe that Greece should focus on more serious and pressing violations, such as the bans against the Iskece Turkish Union in accordance with her EU obligations to respect the fundamental human right of association. Also Greece may do well to deal with the fresh controversy over the nomination of a Pomak for the position of Prefect of Xanthi-Kavala-Drama:

http://www.florina.org/html/2006/pomak.html



Edited by bg_turk - 17-Jun-2006 at 12:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 12:36
Originally posted by DRAKON

Question

The Republic of Turkey was created in 1923. Why do some people that live in Bulgaria , Cyprus or Greece call themselves "Turks"? Unless they migrated there from the Republic of Turkey(after 1923), I see no reason for these "Turks" to call themselves that. I know that some western countries were using the term "Turchia" to identify the Ottomans of Anatolia years before. Were the Ottomans referring themselves as "Turks"?
 
Maybe The "Turks of Thrace should be referring themselves as Serbs, Albanians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Persians, etc...
 
  
People should stop isolating themselves and accept the "communities" they live in.
 
Above statement is so bizarre that I couldn't help laughing. If you ask a primary school boy in Greece, he would tell you that Ottomans were of Turkish origin having Turkish blood in their veins. Thus whole Europe called them Turks.
 
Moreover, if Kakiasvili (heavy weight lifter) is Greek (thats what you call him) then Ottomans were more Turkish than Turks. So why should the Turkish Minorities call themselves something else.
 
Meantime, it is not the Turks that should ask the question "Am I Turk" but I believe other people in that area as some genes may have mixed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 13:03
Above statement is so bizarre that I couldn't help laughing. If you ask a primary school boy in Greece, he would tell you that Ottomans were of Turkish origin having Turkish blood in their veins. Thus whole Europe called them Turks.
 
Moreover, if Kakiasvili (heavy weight lifter) is Greek (thats what you call him) then Ottomans were more Turkish than Turks. So why should the Turkish Minorities call themselves something else.
 
Meantime, it is not the Turks that should ask the question "Am I Turk" but I believe other people in that area as some genes may have mixed.
 I'm glad I gave you a good laugh.LOL I couldn't find better wording for what I needed to write.
 
 I think there is a difference with the words "Turks"(people from Turkey) and "Turkic"(descendants of people originating from Central Asia). If the "Turks" of Thrace are free to call themselves what they want, maybe Turkic instead of Turkish is a more proper term.
 
 There is probably more European blood in Turks than Turkic blood. Especially in western Turkey. Turkey is probably one of the most multicultural nation in the world. It's one big "melting pot".


Edited by DRAKON - 17-Jun-2006 at 13:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 13:28
Originally posted by DRAKON

Above statement is so bizarre that I couldn't help laughing. If you ask a primary school boy in Greece, he would tell you that Ottomans were of Turkish origin having Turkish blood in their veins. Thus whole Europe called them Turks.
 
Moreover, if Kakiasvili (heavy weight lifter) is Greek (thats what you call him) then Ottomans were more Turkish than Turks. So why should the Turkish Minorities call themselves something else.
 
Meantime, it is not the Turks that should ask the question "Am I Turk" but I believe other people in that area as some genes may have mixed.
 I'm glad I gave you a good laugh.LOL I couldn't find better wording for what I needed to write.
 
 I think there is a difference with the words "Turks"(people from Turkey) and "Turkic"(descendants of people originating from Central Asia). If the "Turks" of Thrace are free to call themselves what they want, maybe Turkic instead of Turkish is a more proper term.
 
 There is probably more European blood in Turks than Turkic blood. Especially in western Turkey. Turkey is probably one of the most multicultural nation in the world. It's one big "melting pot".
 
Turkic and Turkish are like Hellenic and Greek. There is no difference between them. The one describes the ethnic routes and culture including language throughout history and the other those having ancestors the Turks (you see no difference in fact). So I believe it is much better for the people in Western Thrace to call themselves Turkish. In addition, I believe that Greece is a democratic state and people can call themselves whatever they want. That's why please stop getting involved in others opinion otherwise soon you will lose your state of decmoracy.
 
In Muslim religion and Turkish culture men are allowed to get women (marry) from other religions on condition they (women) become Muslim. But the opposite is forbidden (haram). Therefore, what you are saying above about a melting point can me true and you can guess the one being melted.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 13:43
Originally posted by Dr Sadik Ahmet

Originally posted by VARLAAM

Greece is not trying to create a Pomak grammar
Pomaks themshelf creating their own dictionary and grammar
and Greece is obligated to help them.
Ritwan Karahonza a Pomak teacher create the Pomak dictionary.
His dream is the Pomak language to be teached in schools.
There is a book in Pomak <<Παραμύθια και τραγούδια των Πομάκων της ορεινής Ξάνθης>> <Stories and songs of mountain Ksanthi Pomaks> (translated also in Greek) from Ali Rogo one of the most
famous Pomak singers in Thrace.
 
Well now you are really telling me paramithia tis Halimas (not related stories). Everybosy knows that those guys work for the Greek Goverment and try to manipulate the Turkish education System in Manority Schools. Well do not ask me for references as it will be very difficult to explain the under table money.
 
Meantime, please show me something that will make me believe that those guys have asked for someone to write them such grammar book. I think someone is trying to fool us here.
 
Then very easy i can say  that Dr Sadik Ahmed was  an agent of the turkish consulate.
I don think that you really know these people because they did something you dont like they work for the greek goverment .
Nice feeling of human rights you have.  
well my friend Dr Sadic you know that human rights is for everybody the same that means that everybody in the  minority (and from all Greece) is
 free to believe anything wants and go in any school wants.
 I dont think  that you are really interest about human rights but more to promote  Turquality.
 
I also doubt  that you are coming from minority.
 


Edited by VARLAAM - 17-Jun-2006 at 13:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 13:54
Originally posted by VARLAAM

Originally posted by Dr Sadik Ahmet

Originally posted by VARLAAM

Greece is not trying to create a Pomak grammar
Pomaks themshelf creating their own dictionary and grammar
and Greece is obligated to help them.
Ritwan Karahonza a Pomak teacher create the Pomak dictionary.
His dream is the Pomak language to be teached in schools.
There is a book in Pomak <<Παραμύθια και τραγούδια των Πομάκων της ορεινής Ξάνθης>> <Stories and songs of mountain Ksanthi Pomaks> (translated also in Greek) from Ali Rogo one of the most
famous Pomak singers in Thrace.
 
Well now you are really telling me paramithia tis Halimas (not related stories). Everybosy knows that those guys work for the Greek Goverment and try to manipulate the Turkish education System in Manority Schools. Well do not ask me for references as it will be very difficult to explain the under table money.
 
Meantime, please show me something that will make me believe that those guys have asked for someone to write them such grammar book. I think someone is trying to fool us here.
 
Then very easy i can say  that Dr Sadik Ahmed was  an agent of the turkish consulate.
I don think that you really know these people because they did something you dont like they work for the greek goverment .
Nice feeling of human rights you have.  
well my friend Dr Sadic you know that human rights is for everybody the same that means that everybody in the  minority (and from all Greece) is
 free to believe anything wants and go in any school wants.
 I dont think  that you are really interest about human rights but more to promote  Turquality.
 
I also doubt  that you are coming from minority.
 
 
Well mate I live in exile and the Turquality does not matter for me at all but the recognition of a whole Minority as they have been seeking their ethnic identity. Moreover, I knew Dr Sadik Ahmet quite well as he used to be my doctor and he was the one to circumcise me (sunnet). Believe me he had no relation with this agent or spy stuff (I may post you the Human Rights Report on him and his court trial). He was just wondering his ethnic identity and he arose couple of questions which deeply disturbed the Greek Goverment (we cannot understand how by saying someone that he is Turkish can provoke hatred among people - it is still a mistery).
 
I would scan my passport and post it here but I am afraid of the Greek democracy you see. But you can ask me questions even in Greek and I will persuade you that I really have experienced all this tragic stuff.


Edited by Dr Sadik Ahmet - 17-Jun-2006 at 14:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 14:11
Turkic and Turkish are like Hellenic and Greek. There is no difference between them. The one describes the ethnic routes and culture including language throughout history and the other those having ancestors the Turks (you see no difference in fact). So I believe it is much better for the people in Western Thrace to call themselves Turkish. In addition, I believe that Greece is a democratic state and people can call themselves whatever they want. That's why please stop getting involved in others opinion otherwise soon you will lose your state of decmoracy.
 
Ok, I did some research and found that the term "Turkic" is generally considered to represent a broad linguistic characterization, and not necessarily an ethnic one. The term "Turk" refers to a nation/ethnicity. "Turkish" on the other hand, is considered to represent more specifically the citizens of the nation of Turkey as well as the Turkish ethnicity. (I found this in Wikipedia)
 
If this is true, then the "Turks" of Thrace should not be using the term "Turkish" since they are not citizens of Turkey. Therefore, I would have to say no, they don't have the right to call themselves Turkish. It seems Turks is a more acceptable term.
 
 
In Muslim religion and Turkish culture men are allowed to get women (marry) from other religions on condition they (women) become Muslim. But the opposite is forbidden (haram). Therefore, what you are saying above about a melting point can me true and you can guess the one being melted.
Is this what happens in Thrace? Can a muslim woman("Turk") marry an christian man or does her family reject her?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 14:14
Originally posted by Dr Sadik Ahmet

Originally posted by VARLAAM

Originally posted by Dr Sadik Ahmet

Originally posted by VARLAAM

Greece is not trying to create a Pomak grammar
Pomaks themshelf creating their own dictionary and grammar
and Greece is obligated to help them.
Ritwan Karahonza a Pomak teacher create the Pomak dictionary.
His dream is the Pomak language to be teached in schools.
There is a book in Pomak <<Παραμύθια και τραγούδια των Πομάκων της ορεινής Ξάνθης>> <Stories and songs of mountain Ksanthi Pomaks> (translated also in Greek) from Ali Rogo one of the most
famous Pomak singers in Thrace.
 
Well now you are really telling me paramithia tis Halimas (not related stories). Everybosy knows that those guys work for the Greek Goverment and try to manipulate the Turkish education System in Manority Schools. Well do not ask me for references as it will be very difficult to explain the under table money.
 
Meantime, please show me something that will make me believe that those guys have asked for someone to write them such grammar book. I think someone is trying to fool us here.
 
Then very easy i can say  that Dr Sadik Ahmed was  an agent of the turkish consulate.
I don think that you really know these people because they did something you dont like they work for the greek goverment .
Nice feeling of human rights you have.  
well my friend Dr Sadic you know that human rights is for everybody the same that means that everybody in the  minority (and from all Greece) is
 free to believe anything wants and go in any school wants.
 I dont think  that you are really interest about human rights but more to promote  Turquality.
 
I also doubt  that you are coming from minority.
 
 
Well mate I live in exile and the Turquality does not matter for me at all but the recognition of a whole Minority as they have been seeking their ethnic identity. Moreover, I know Dr Sadik Ahmet quite well as he used to be my doctor and he was the one to circumcise me (sunnet). Believe me he had no relation with this agent or spy stuff (I may post you the Human Rights Report on him and his court trial). He was just wondering his ethnic identity and he arose couple of questions which deeply disturbed the Greek Goverment (we cannot understand how by saying someone that he is Turkish can provoke hatred among people - it is still a mistery).
 
I would scan my passport and post it here but I am afraid of the Greek democracy you see. But you can ask me questions even in Greek and I will persuade you that I really have experienced all this tragic stuff.
 
<<the recognition of a whole Minority as they have been seeking their ethnic identity>> You insist to violate the human rights of minority, not everybody want to guidance from the turkish consulate they are free to believe whatever they want to write and learn any language they want
not everybody want to be a turk.Ofcourse everyone who wants to go
to a minority school to learn turkish must be also free!!
I invite you to the non english board (elliniko meros) to share
with the other greek citizens your thoughts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 14:18
Originally posted by DRAKON

Question

The Republic of Turkey was created in 1923. Why do some people that live in Bulgaria , Cyprus or Greece call themselves "Turks"? Unless they migrated there from the Republic of Turkey(after 1923), I see no reason for these "Turks" to call themselves that. I know that some western countries were using the term "Turchia" to identify the Ottomans of Anatolia years before. Were the Ottomans referring themselves as "Turks"?
 
Maybe The "Turks of Thrace should be referring themselves as Serbs, Albanians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Persians, etc...
 
 
 
People should stop isolating themselves and accept the "communities" they live in.
 
You cant really change people's feelings and thoughts so easily in short term..
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 15:28
Originally posted by VARLAAM

Originally posted by Dr Sadik Ahmet

Originally posted by VARLAAM

Originally posted by Dr Sadik Ahmet

Originally posted by VARLAAM

Greece is not trying to create a Pomak grammar
Pomaks themshelf creating their own dictionary and grammar
and Greece is obligated to help them.
Ritwan Karahonza a Pomak teacher create the Pomak dictionary.
His dream is the Pomak language to be teached in schools.
There is a book in Pomak <<Παραμύθια και τραγούδια των Πομάκων της ορεινής Ξάνθης>> <Stories and songs of mountain Ksanthi Pomaks> (translated also in Greek) from Ali Rogo one of the most
famous Pomak singers in Thrace.
 
Well now you are really telling me paramithia tis Halimas (not related stories). Everybosy knows that those guys work for the Greek Goverment and try to manipulate the Turkish education System in Manority Schools. Well do not ask me for references as it will be very difficult to explain the under table money.
 
Meantime, please show me something that will make me believe that those guys have asked for someone to write them such grammar book. I think someone is trying to fool us here.
 
Then very easy i can say  that Dr Sadik Ahmed was  an agent of the turkish consulate.
I don think that you really know these people because they did something you dont like they work for the greek goverment .
Nice feeling of human rights you have.  
well my friend Dr Sadic you know that human rights is for everybody the same that means that everybody in the  minority (and from all Greece) is
 free to believe anything wants and go in any school wants.
 I dont think  that you are really interest about human rights but more to promote  Turquality.
 
I also doubt  that you are coming from minority.
 
 
Well mate I live in exile and the Turquality does not matter for me at all but the recognition of a whole Minority as they have been seeking their ethnic identity. Moreover, I know Dr Sadik Ahmet quite well as he used to be my doctor and he was the one to circumcise me (sunnet). Believe me he had no relation with this agent or spy stuff (I may post you the Human Rights Report on him and his court trial). He was just wondering his ethnic identity and he arose couple of questions which deeply disturbed the Greek Goverment (we cannot understand how by saying someone that he is Turkish can provoke hatred among people - it is still a mistery).
 
I would scan my passport and post it here but I am afraid of the Greek democracy you see. But you can ask me questions even in Greek and I will persuade you that I really have experienced all this tragic stuff.
 
<<the recognition of a whole Minority as they have been seeking their ethnic identity>> You insist to violate the human rights of minority, not everybody want to guidance from the turkish consulate they are free to believe whatever they want to write and learn any language they want
not everybody want to be a turk.Ofcourse everyone who wants to go
to a minority school to learn turkish must be also free!!
I invite you to the non english board (elliniko meros) to share
with the other greek citizens your thoughts.
 
Don't you think I had enough with Greek? (read my previous posts to learn)
 
Meanitme, the Minority is shouting that they are Turks for ages now but no one cares. The Minority has for a while declared what they want and what they are (please read some objective books about the Turkish Monirity as I believe you are not at my level to discuss the subject).
 
Kalinixta. Tha ta poume meta (good night we'll talk later)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 15:33
Originally posted by DRAKON

Turkic and Turkish are like Hellenic and Greek. There is no difference between them. The one describes the ethnic routes and culture including language throughout history and the other those having ancestors the Turks (you see no difference in fact). So I believe it is much better for the people in Western Thrace to call themselves Turkish. In addition, I believe that Greece is a democratic state and people can call themselves whatever they want. That's why please stop getting involved in others opinion otherwise soon you will lose your state of decmoracy.
 
Ok, I did some research and found that the term "Turkic" is generally considered to represent a broad linguistic characterization, and not necessarily an ethnic one. The term "Turk" refers to a nation/ethnicity. "Turkish" on the other hand, is considered to represent more specifically the citizens of the nation of Turkey as well as the Turkish ethnicity. (I found this in Wikipedia)
 
If this is true, then the "Turks" of Thrace should not be using the term "Turkish" since they are not citizens of Turkey. Therefore, I would have to say no, they don't have the right to call themselves Turkish. It seems Turks is a more acceptable term.
 
 
In Muslim religion and Turkish culture men are allowed to get women (marry) from other religions on condition they (women) become Muslim. But the opposite is forbidden (haram). Therefore, what you are saying above about a melting point can me true and you can guess the one being melted.
Is this what happens in Thrace? Can a muslim woman("Turk") marry an christian man or does her family reject her?
 
Turkish is the adjective and Turk the noun like Greek and Greek (Greek language adj but he is Greek noun)
 
Anyway call us Turkish or Turk we do not have any problem with that. As long as the goverment accepts that we will be glad to preceed with it.
Thanks for the research but do not trust this wikipedia stuff in your future researches. It is just crap.
 
Well there are different religions on the earth. For example in the Jewish (adj) religion the woman is important. No matter what your father is if your mather is Jew (noun) you are so. Islam is more or less the same. if a muslim woman gets married with a non-muslim then she most probably will e considered as non-muslim (do not try to understant it is not like in christianity). However, this is the common practice there may be exceptions and only God (Allah) knows who is better than whom.
 
Thank you for considering me and the Minority as Turk/s.
  


Edited by Dr Sadik Ahmet - 17-Jun-2006 at 15:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 16:17
 
 
 
Don't you think I had enough with Greek? (read my previous posts to learn)
 
Meanitme, the Minority is shouting that they are Turks for ages now but no one cares. The Minority has for a while declared what they want and what they are (please read some objective books about the Turkish Monirity as I believe you are not at my level to discuss the subject).
 
Kalinixta. Tha ta poume meta (good night we'll talk later)
[/QUOTE]
Now i m sure that you are not really intresting about human rights.
A well brainwashed person is not get used to hear different opinions
immediately  the other become low level person.
Like before with Ritvan Karahonza  and Ali Rogo because they dont angry with the agents of Turkish consulate became workers of Greek goverment.
The minority in W T will not become ethnic minority to promote the interest of military national security council of Ankara.
The people of minority must be free to believe anything they want.  
Well because i have also human rights i complain to the moderators about
your comments about me .


Edited by VARLAAM - 17-Jun-2006 at 16:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 16:36
Originally posted by VARLAAM

A well brainwashed person is not get used to hear different opinions
immediately  the other become low level person.


VARLAAM,

Please do refrain from personal attacks and attempts to start a new flame war. I can understand your frustration that a Turk from Western Thrace is speaking his mind about the ongoing violations against his people, but your frustration does not justify the closure of this thread.

I believe we have had a very civilized discussion so far (well mostly) and I have learned really a lot from this discussion. This is probably the best thread I have been in AE. And I would like Dr Sadik Ahmet to continue to provide us with information and tell us about his personal experience of what was and is still going on in Western Thrace. It is really rare that I meet any Turks from Western Thrace, and I want to use this opportunity fully.

It is also an opportunity for Greeks to get acquainted with past and ongoing violations against the Turks in their country.

I really hope the moderators will not lock this thread, there has been no flame war so far, and I appeal to everybody to keep this discussion in that way.

If you disagree with something do so respectfully without attacking the person and try to provide sources unless of course you are talking about a personal experience. Do not throw baseless allgeations of somebody being an agent, a traitor, or a terrorist without being able to provide sources.

I hope this thread will remain open and the discussion will continue ...




Edited by bg_turk - 17-Jun-2006 at 16:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 16:52
Originally posted by bg_turk

Originally posted by VARLAAM

A well brainwashed person is not get used to hear different opinions
immediately  the other become low level person.


VARLAAM,

Please do refrain from personal attacks and attempts to start a new flame war. I can understand your frustration that a Turk from Western Thrace is speaking his mind about the ongoing violations against his people, but your frustration does not justify the closure of this thread.

I believe we have had a very civilized discussion so far (well mostly) and I have learned really a lot from this discussion. This is probably the best thread I have been in AE. And I would like Dr Sadik Ahmet to continue to provide us with information and tell us about his personal experience of what was and is still going on in Western Thrace. It is really rare that I meet any Turks from Western Thrace, and I want to use this opportunity fully.

It is also an opportunity for Greeks to get acquainted with past and ongoing violations against the Turks in their country.

I really hope the moderators will not lock this thread, there has been no flame war so far, and I appeal to everybody to keep this discussion in that way.

If you disagree with something do so respectfully without attacking the person and try to provide sources unless of course you are talking about a personal experience. Do not throw baseless allgeations of somebody being an agent, a traitor, or a terrorist without being able to provide sources.

I hope this thread will remain open and the discussion will continue ...


You must not refer to me because i got an intolerable attack to my personality from somebody who is defenting human rights
and i answer analogical and i m waiting amends.


Edited by VARLAAM - 17-Jun-2006 at 16:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 02:38
Originally posted by VARLAAM

Originally posted by DR SADIK AHMET

 
Don't you think I had enough with Greek? (read my previous posts to learn)
 
Meanitme, the Minority is shouting that they are Turks for ages now but no one cares. The Minority has for a while declared what they want and what they are (please read some objective books about the Turkish Monirity as I believe you are not at my level to discuss the subject).
 
Kalinixta. Tha ta poume meta (good night we'll talk later)
 
Now i m sure that you are not really intresting about human rights.
A well brainwashed person is not get used to hear different opinions
immediately  the other become low level person.
Like before with Ritvan Karahonza  and Ali Rogo because they dont angry with the agents of Turkish consulate became workers of Greek goverment.
The minority in W T will not become ethnic minority to promote the interest of military national security council of Ankara.
The people of minority must be free to believe anything they want.  
Well because i have also human rights i complain to the moderators about
your comments about me.
 
If I had some comments agianst your person I am civilised enough to say a great "I am SORRY" but believe me I really had no comments on your person. Moreover, you are accusing me of being bainwashed for which I ask an explanation. I said I had enough with the Greek meaning the Greek Goverment. I have nothing against the people of Greece or whatsoever excluding the racists.
 
I will tell you a story and you will understand how brainwashed we are. Well we used to live in a house inherited from my grand granfather (Ottoman Empire probably around 1830s) and there in the neighbourhood we had very good Greek friends.
 
One of them was Michalis who literary grew up in our house and shared our bread, water, bed and love. They were at the same age with my uncle and were like brothers.
 
Unfortunatelly in 1974 with the war on the island of Cyprus he received a telegram to serve the Greek Army on the Island. He straight came to my grandmather and said in Turkish, 
 
"Mana now I go to the island to fight. Please pray for me and make your hak helal (we Muslim believe that whatever we do (bad or good) to others we will have to face each other after death and to avoid this we have to make our hak (right) helal (forgive))"
 
He kissed the hand of my grandmother (in the traditional way for muslims) and  he said "Allahaismarladik" (Like Spanish vaya con Dios or in English can be God nows better). Then he left for Cyprus to fight against Turks (you can imagine the drama lived in our house as everybody was crying).
 
Things went good for our beloved Michalis and he came back from the island. Straight he went to my grandmother and said again in Turkish,
 
"It seems we had to share more bread" meaning his destiny was not fulfilled yet.
 
This is how brainwashed we Turks (you had accepted this) of Western Thrace are. Now will you tell me one of your experiences with Turks of Thrace?
 
Meantime, lets not hurt each other. We are the people of the same land. Therefore, lets concentrate on the subject and try to find solutions. Please get rid of this blame war against Dr Sadik Ahmet and Turkey (not related to subject) as I believe we can find reach to a solution all together.
 
On the other hand, if you again ask me about my personal experiences I can tell you more stories like the one above.


Edited by Dr Sadik Ahmet - 18-Jun-2006 at 02:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 03:11
Antioxos and VARLAAM
(sorry for writing in such size - just to draw you attention)
 
Can you please explain me the attached picture and also give some idea who is more brainwashed than whom?
 
I received it during my compulsory military service. Instead of thanking me for serving the military I only received continious threat, discrimination and humiliation (the image was received during military service and was scanned on 18.06.2006 at 10:15 to provide same evidence and source that Antioxos asked - please do not tell me that it is a nice photo as you are used to saying).
 
 
I am awaiting your comments on that.
 


Edited by Dr Sadik Ahmet - 18-Jun-2006 at 03:13
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