BEST WARSHIP OF THE WORLD

Well Giordano, if you seek the truth you might discover that truth is not what you thought of being truth.

I've given you some sources, but as you have noticed some are impossible for me to share with you. It's not really bothering me to give sources it's just that you seem not to have an oppinion or bring arguments into discussion. Or facts.

This is a discussion forum after all. Not a "post some links" or "where did you get that?". I'm not a MOD or ADM to settle the rules but you can certainly ask them if you want to know what this forum is about.

Originally posted by Laelius Currently the best warship in the world would be this beauty [IMG]height=217 src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b0/USS_Nimitz_1997.jpg/290px-USS_Nimitz_1997.jpg" width=290> � � But as consistent with the rest of this thread I'd have to go with this warship � [IMG]height=374 src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Uss_wisconsin_bb.JPG/300px-Uss_wisconsin_bb.JPG" width=300>

Is that ship the USS Ronald Reagan?
    

... in terms of overall impact on tactics in the 20th century, it has to go to the aircraft carrier.

In the end battleships were more political extensions of their country and were outdated the minute carriers became operational. Huge capital ships represented a form of naval warfare from the previous century and there were only a rare handful of surface engagements during WWII that actually happened - the very type of surface engagement that the admirals had been training for since the battleship slid down the ways.

Battleships were eventually used to provide support for carrier or transport formations rather than being the center piece for their navy.

Of course, from my perspective, the best warship of the world is no skimmer.  Hands-down its the submarine. It's military and political impact can't be ignored or overshadowed by the battlewagons, who have always gotten more attention.

The other vessel that put 20th century naval tactics and doctrine on its ear was the Type XXI u-boat. It represented a vast change in underwater warfare and ASW for all ocean going nations.

  

The key issue about the Dreadnought which rendered all previous battleships redundant, (there are numerous examples from WW1 of Pre-Dreadnought battleships being easily destroyed by Dreadnoughts), was that they replaced a mixed armament of a few larger guns, plus numbers of medium sized guns with the 'All Big Gun' battleship.

In addition, the various barbettes and turrets, or central batteries of the Pre-Dreadnought were replaced with a rationalised turret arrangement that could be effectively controlled through superior fire direction technology.

With superior or equivalent speed through the use of oil fired turbines they could choose the range at which they would engage at.

A Pre-Dreadnought with 2-4 9.2" guns would be hugely disadvantaged vs a Dreadnought with 6-12 9.2" or larger. The Dreadnought could simply remain beyond the effective range of the Pre-Dreadnought's smaller guns and pound it to bits.

The change in tactics this effected was to change the range of engagement, from a fairly close range of broadside to broadside (the British Navy was still performing boarding drills as late as the 1890's), to a genuine 'duel' of individual ships or ship lines. This also nullified the Torpedo Boats (early destroyers) which some French Naval Theorists of the 'Jeune Ecole' (Young School) thought would make all battleships redundant.

(The Monitor style warship (Merrimac and Virginia of the American Civil War) - heavily armour plated and steam propelled didn't change the style of warfare, it was just better armour plating.)

The German High Seas Fleet had a second-line squadron of Pre-Dreadnoughts, (2nd Battle Squadron) consisting of the best of it's pre 1906 designs, and this took a battering at Jutland in 1916, losing Pommern.

The Dreadnought genuinely changed the course of history by rendering every other battleship obsolete overnight for fleet duties. The man responsible for the innovation, First Sea Lord of Great Britain 'Jackie' Fisher, (although the original designs were by an Italian Naval Architect), was condemned, because he had made British Naval Superiority (of numbers) disappear as other navies scrambled to build Dreadnoughts of their own.

For a view of the naval race of the early 20th Century and the Dreadnought, try 'Massey' "Dreadnought".

regards

Admiral

Actually, New Jersey was an Iowa class ship.

Off topic, but  the next class, Montana, is the battleship that never existed.

With an intended standard displacement of 60,500 tons, they were nearly a third larger than the preceding Iowa class, four of which were the final battleships actually completed by the United States. The Montanas were intended to carry twelve 16" /50 caliber guns, three more than the earlier class.
Now that would have been a battleship to marvel at, but the events of December 7th, 1941, and the subsequent Battle of Midway six months later brought down the curtain on the era of big gun navies.

JT

Originally posted by jacobtowne Actually, New Jersey was an Iowa class ship. Off topic, but  the next class, Montana, is the battleship that never existed. With an intended standard displacement of 60,500 tons, they were nearly a third larger than the preceding Iowa class, four of which were the final battleships actually completed by the United States. The Montanas were intended to carry twelve 16" /50 caliber guns, three more than the earlier class. Now that would have been a battleship to marvel at, but the events of December 7th, 1941, and the subsequent Battle of Midway six months later brought down the curtain on the era of big gun navies. JT

Wow. Those would have been magnificent ships. I think one should be built anway. There is not much more awe inspiring than a battleship.

Originally posted by Laelius The Dreadnought genuinely changed the course of history by rendering every other battleship obsolete overnight for fleet duties. The man responsible for the innovation, First Sea Lord of Great Britain 'Jackie' Fisher, (although the original designs were by an Italian Naval Architect), was condemned, because he had made British Naval Superiority (of numbers) disappear as other navies scrambled to build Dreadnoughts of their own. For a view of the naval race of the early 20th Century and the Dreadnought, try 'Massey' "Dreadnought". regards   This is incorrect, other Navies were working on their own "all big gun" warships well before the Dreadnought was launched, the Japanese Satsuma was laid down in 1904 and plans for the South Carolina were presented at the beginning of 04 and wasn't laid down until 06.  In fact I would argue that the Dreadnought was itself was made obselete two years later with launching of the South Carolina class with its classic centerline gun arrangement.  Though I think it commendable that the British Navy moved so quickly on their in developing such a vessel based upon the experiences of the Russo-Japanese war and the theories of a number of Naval strategists I fail to see how the Dreadnought 'revolutionized' Naval warfare.

Edited by aghart - 30-Oct-2006 at 17:08

Sorry for the long delay but Aghart, in a word and in a sense... yes

 

look I'm not trying to say that the Dreadnought wasn't remarkable but I firmly believe that you are overstating the ships significance, even if it did revolutionize battleship design its impact on history I am sorry to say is utterly unimportant and negligible.  Its influence lasted no more than perhaps 40 years when the last 'battleships' were built and perhaps 35 years in which they were still the lords of the sea. 

 

As to its influence on battleship design, I'll concede that she forced a number of navies to adapt and build dreadnought like ships of their own.  Yet she influenced US ship design no more than US ship designs, such as the South Carolina, influenced the later Super Dreadnoughts of the Orion class with its centerline gun arrangements.  The weakness of your position in, my opinion, is that you're ascribing far too much importance to a single ship when most navies in the world were moving towards building all big gun warships of their own.  Following the battle of the Tsushima Straits the writing was on the walls What Dreadnought really did was demonstrate the excellence and determination of the Royal Navy to remain the finest in the world. 

 

If you�re argument is based on the Dreadnought being the most effective ship at sea between 06-08 well then I�d agree you.  Yet if you�re looking for a truly revolutionary ship then I�d have to go with the English race built galleon.