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Military Leaders.

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Poll Question: Who is the greatest military leader of all-time?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [8.45%]
15 [21.13%]
8 [11.27%]
19 [26.76%]
2 [2.82%]
4 [5.63%]
4 [5.63%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
13 [18.31%]
You can not vote in this poll

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Military Leaders.
    Posted: 14-Jan-2005 at 10:32

 

 Well i dont say he his great...his enemies say he was great and put them in trouble for a long time. Well if u ask my opinion who was greatest then i will say it was Khalid Bin Walid who took part in 125 Battles and was victorious in all of them. He was truley an invincible General, Unmatched. In the Battle of Muta, He routed a strong army of 200000 of Byzantine And Persians with his only 3000 soldiers. He is Forever the greatest.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jan-2005 at 07:32
Originally posted by RatttleSnake

 

 Well i dont say he his great...his enemies say he was great and put them in trouble for a long time. Well if u ask my opinion who was greatest then i will say it was Khalid Bin Walid who took part in 125 Battles and was victorious in all of them. He was truley an invincible General, Unmatched. In the Battle of Muta, He routed a strong army of 200000 of Byzantine And Persians with his only 3000 soldiers. He is Forever the greatest.

i agree 100%

Khalid Bin AL-Waleed is the greatest early Islamic General

 

 

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  Quote exodussian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2005 at 07:28

1 - Halid bin velid 
2 - Mustafa Kemal Atatrk  (for a good general , as using limited munitions)
3 - Mehmed the conquorer  (which character in the poll could think passing ships over hills  during conquore of constantinople.) ?

must be added into poll. I think.

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2005 at 13:04
I think Frederick the Great, Suleyman the Magnificent and Darius the Great should also be on the list. And although Saladin was never remarkably successful his win at Hattin in which he reacquired the holy land for Islam deserves consideration.
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote RED GUARD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2005 at 19:22

  Once again, the Asians have won.

Quotes by your's turly:

"I came, I saw, and I conquered... but only for the weekend"

"This is my tank, this is my weapon, and this is my pride."

"Power comes from a barrel of a gun."

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2005 at 11:12

Originally posted by RED GUARD


  Once again, the Asians have won.

Won what!!

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote RED GUARD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2005 at 17:35

  Won the poll, of course!
Quotes by your's turly:

"I came, I saw, and I conquered... but only for the weekend"

"This is my tank, this is my weapon, and this is my pride."

"Power comes from a barrel of a gun."

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2005 at 17:52

Originally posted by RED GUARD


  Won the poll, of course!

Its not your poll to win. As far as I know this is not a thread about Asians or Europeans. And if you think it is you can take your bigotry somewhere else because it is not welcome here.



Edited by Winterhaze13
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Mar-2005 at 11:29

Here is a list of some underrated Military Leaders:

Dionyseus- Syracusan ruler fought the Carthaginians and conquerored southern Italy. 

Saladin- Kurd and leader of the Egyptians during the second crusade. Won the Battle of Hattin to re-optain the Holyland for the muslim cause. 

Clovis- First great Frankish king. Expanded kingdom to the Pyranees.

Theodoric- King of the Ostrogoths and conqueror of Italy.

Gustavus Adolphus- Swedish King that fought in the 30 years War

And I think that Cyrus the Great should be considered along side Alexander and hannibal as the greatest military leaders of the Ancient period.

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 11:52

Here is my list, in no particular order but chronologically, the 25 greatest military leaders in history:

Cyrus the Great (R. 559-30)- Persia ruler, first truly great general in history.

Darius the Great (R. 521-486)- Persian, annexed Thrace and Macedonia.

Alexander the Great (R. 336-323)- Macedonia, conquerored Persia and almost the entire "known" world.

Hannibal Barca- Carthaginian, invaded Italy with much success in the Second Punic War against Rome.

Scipio Africanus- Roman General, defeated Hannibal at Zama in 202 B.C.

Dionysius (R. 405-367)- Syracusan, conquerored most of Sicily and southern Italy. Faught four wars against Carthage.

Julius Caesar- Roman general, conquerored Gaul and defeated Pompey in the Great Civil War to gain power in Rome.

Sulla- Roman general and dictator, won important battles for the empire in Greece (83-81 B.C.)

Pompey the Great - Roman general, expanded the empire in the east.

Belisarius (505-565 A.D.)- Thracian General for Byzantium, defeated the Persians and regained Italy. One of the most underappreciated in history.

Attila the Hun- Terrorized the Roman Empre in the 5th cetury A.D.

Theodoric- Ostrogoth, invaded Italy in the 5th century and established a Gothic kingdom there.

Clovis(R.481-511)- Frank, expanded the Kingdom to the Pyranees.

Heraclius- Byzantine, expanded the Empire eastward into Persia in the 7th century.

Richard I "Lionheart"- English King and crusader, went along on the third crusade and gained valuable territory for the Christina cause, although fell short of Jerusalem.

Saladin- Kurd and Ruler of Egypt in the late 12th century. Expanded into Syria and northern mesopotamia. Although, best known for winning the Battle of hattin to regain Jerusalem for the Muslim side in 1187.

Genghis Khan- Mongol, late 12th century and early 13th, unified Mongolia and expanded its Empire to China, Russia and much of Asia.

Tamerlane- Tarter, conquerored Persia and much of the middle east. Although many historians downplay his successes today. (R. 1381-1405)

Muhammed II- Ottoman Turk, conducted a successful siege on Constantinople in 1453. Established the Ottomans as a permanent force in Turkey.

Suleiman the Magnificent- Ottoman Turk, expanded the empire in North Africam Hungary and to the gates of Vienna in 1529. (R. 1520-1566)

Gustavus Adolphus- Swedish king, faught a very successful campaign in the 30 years war against Catholic Austria. (1594-1632)

Frederick the Great- Prussia, strengthened Prussi amilitarily anf faught in the 7 years war. (1712-86)

Napoleon Bonaparte (L. 1769-1821): French emperor, where do I begin. Amassed the largest European empire since Rome.

Horatio Nelson- British seamen, greatest navy captain in history. Defeated Napoleonic forces in the Battle of Trafalgar, which established British navy supremacy.

Duke of Wellington- British general, faught and defeated Napoleonic forces in Spain and at waterloo.

 

For more information please check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

 

 



Edited by Winterhaze13
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 12:21

The Top Ten:

1. Napoleon Bonaparte

2. Genghis Khan

3. Alexander the Great

4. Hannibal Barca

5. Cyrus the Great

6. Frederick the Great

7. Tamerlane 

8. Suleiman the Magnificent

9. Belisarius

10A. Attila the Hun

10B. Horatio Nelson

 

Underrated:

Belisarius

Dionysius

Pompey the Great

Theodoric

Gustavus Adolphus



Edited by Winterhaze13
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 15:06
I wish there were some more reason general on the list.  i chose other because there were some great leaders during the 20th century who did some amazing things.
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 16:40

Originally posted by Thegeneral

I wish there were some more reason general on the list.  i chose other because there were some great leaders during the 20th century who did some amazing things.

I don't think you can compare Rommel or Patton with people like Napoleon or Genghis Khan because the latter did some much singlehandedly. Also, Rommel and Patton were generals and not military leaders. Those I mentioned faught in very different circumstances than those in the 20th century. Taht's why I did not include them.

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 18:06

So this was a poll of what was the greatest military leaders before the 20th century?

And there is no diference between a military leader and a general.  They both lead troops into battle, no?  They both make strategic decisions, no?  I can't think of a difference, if you can tell me.

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 18:11
Originally posted by Thegeneral

So this was a poll of what was the greatest military leaders before the 20th century?

And there is no diference between a military leader and a general.  They both lead troops into battle, no?  They both make strategic decisions, no?  I can't think of a difference, if you can tell me.

Yes, but any military historian would tell you that you can't compare Patton to Napoleon, because let's face it today's brand of warfare takes far less skill than the man-to-man combat that Genghis Khan or Alexander faught in. In my opinion, Rommel is the best of the 20th century but military leaders are gone. They have been replaced with generals, who could never be compared to Frederick the Great or Napoleon. The nature of today's war is based on technology.



Edited by Winterhaze13
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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2005 at 19:39

Oh I completly agree that you can't compare Rommel to Napolean and that it does not take as much skill to be a general today as back then, BUT if you can't compare Rommel with Napolean you can't compare Napolean with Caeser because of the different times.

You seem to think there is a difference between a general and a military leader; could you explain why?

And yes, Rommel was the best general of the 20th century.

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 11:14
Originally posted by Thegeneral

Oh I completly agree that you can't compare Rommel to Napolean and that it does not take as much skill to be a general today as back then, BUT if you can't compare Rommel with Napolean you can't compare Napolean with Caeser because of the different times.

You seem to think there is a difference between a general and a military leader; could you explain why?

And yes, Rommel was the best general of the 20th century.

Although, that's a problem when dealing with this kind of list. But, the distinction of warfare between Caesar and Napoleon is far more similar than in Rommels time. Because Napoleon controlled entire armies, Rommel didn't really. At the end of the day I don't think 20th century generals should be on my list because they were not leaders in the same way Genghis Khan or Caesar were. They just can't be compared. I'd love to see your top ten list, if you have the time.

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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 16:52
Julius Caesar, Hannibal, Alexander and Temujin were probably the best of that list. Maybe we should add Manstein, Vo Nguyen Giap...
If i have to chose one of them that is definitely Genghis Khan.
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 17:35

Originally posted by Drunt Ba'adur

Julius Caesar, Hannibal, Alexander and Temujin were probably the best of that list. Maybe we should add Manstein, Vo Nguyen Giap...
If i have to chose one of them that is definitely Genghis Khan.

Good choices, but I don't think Caesar is considered that great a military leader. Yes, he conquerored Gaul, but many of the sources I've read maintain that he lacked skill as compared to Pompey.

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
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  Quote Drunt Ba'adur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:21
Originally posted by Winterhaze13

Good choices, but I don't think Caesar is considered that great a military leader. Yes, he conquerored Gaul, but many of the sources I've read maintain that he lacked skill as compared to Pompey.

Well, that's probably a lack of my knowledge, because over Caesar I've only read reports of battles and reports of campaigns. But i've mentioned because it surprises me that with just 50,000 soldiers he conquered Galia, fighting along the campaing against more troops(i read that more than a milion during all the conquest, but i've never trusted those numbers). Pompey was a great general, with more skill as you say, but the battle of Pharsalia shows us that he is not the best.
But as i've said, i don't know much over Caesar and less over Pompey.
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