Why are we learning Chinese?

I don't understand what is the point of all this paranoia about China's growing power, other than the "us vs you" scenario. 

Originally posted by Genghis Originally posted by hugoestr Originally posted by Genghis Originally posted by Americanus Loknar you are excatly right i myself dislike the Chinese because theyre trying to take over our postition as a superpower Amen, not too many people realize what a threat the Chinese are and will become. I'm glad to see that Bush and some other Republicans are beginning to see the growing threat of China. There is a very simple way of reducing the Chinese threat. Why don't we make an economic embargo on China? Without the U.S., the Chinese economy wil crumble. And Walmart too. Americans will pay more for products, but it is a sacrifice that we are willing to make. Bush can do it. He can protect us from the future menace. Oh! Wait! Bush delivered our economy to the Chinese so that he could fund the Iraqi quagmire! Thanks to the huge amount of dollars that the Chinese own, the U.S. gets to dance at their tune--or else. And Bush's and the Republican Party's masters, corporations, WANT to do business with China. And Bush and the Republican Party will do whatever his corporate donors want. The U.S. created the Chinese "menace" with its dollars, just like it created Saddam Husein and Osama Bin Laden, and Al Qeada. We can still stop them. We need a balance budget to do it though. Fortunatelly, there is a simple way of getting out of debt: cutting the uncontained military spending by leaving Iraq and raising taxes. Unfortunatelly, the Republican Party is not willing to make these kinds of patriotic sacrifices. How about its members? Are they willing to have their taxes raised so that we can cut economic ties with China to stop its danger before it is too late? The Chinese need our dollars to manipulate their currency and keep it artificially low, and how can you say that we dance to China's tune, now we've been breathing down their neck about currency manipulation. The Chinese threat will have to be dealt with with more than a balanced budget anyway. But yes, I do agree with you about the balanced budget, I unfortunately think tax revenues must be increased, but I'd rather do it by eliminating some of those absurd tax breaks and eliminating other stupid things like farm subsidies. Usually I also don't like protectionism, but I'd like to see tariffs imposed against the Chinese. The economic cost would be worth the political and military benefit. If we make it high enough it might send China into a depression which could trigger a revolt like they're historically prone too.

I can't stop myself from smiling when reading this post. This is your classic, pragmatic style

The U.S. needs a balanced budget so that it can have the independence to harm China, if that is what it wishes to do. As a debtor country, the U.S. is at the mercy of the person who grants the loan.

You can normally pick out the empty rhetoric when it happens. Apply this skill to our own officials: our declarations against their currency manipulation are not making them do anything; those declarations are meant for Americans, to show how our government is not ruled by a foreign power.

It sounds a lot like a weak Latin American dictator making public declarations against the U.S. while being in debt to it. It helps internally, but he is ignored by the U.S.

If we really threaten the Chinese to the point that they see themselves in danger, they can drop their dollar nuke on the U.S. economy. And with a devasted and debt heavy U.S. economy, we will not be able pay for the guns and missles needed for the war against China.

The Republican economic policy has brought the U.S. into its current position of weakness. Denying this only contributes to increase our vulnerability.

Also, you are not admitting that raising taxes is the only solution to balance the budget. Farm subsidies are key to national security, and corporations will not give up their special tax breaks.

Unless the American people demand that corporations pay higher taxes--the last number that I saw was that they are paying 15% of income, after using tax breaks and loopholes--the American citizen must take up that burden.

Originally posted by demon You don't understand how serious this Chinese threat is, do you? If China decided to release every single dollar bills from its treasury into world's economy, the dollar value would depreciate so much that the US economy would most likely undergo a soaring inflation rate, which would crash its markets. Because so many countries depend on US for foreign money, they would follow, and soon the world would screw itself up. I'm not sure if that's what China wants (which is not likely given their circumstances now as trading partners), but it's possible.

Yes, I understand that this is my threat. And if you had bothered to read my argument, you will see that I am making the same point.

Because China can harm the U.S. economy to such an extent, the U.S. is in no position to fight against it.

The only way to for the U.S. to really be able to defend itself is by having a stronger, debt free economy.

Until the U.S. is debt free, its macho talk against China is no more serious than that of Latin American dictators blasting the U.S.

And remember: the Republican government gave China this power over my country. Had they avoided getting in debt, the U.S. would be in a strong position today. Instead, we are at the mercy of a foreign power.

Originally posted by demon On your statement about Latin roots, I took French in high school.  Strong command of English does not make learning French any easier.  However learning Latin will make the languages you mention easier to digest.  However, why would you want to learn a dead language. English and French words are related in political/judicial topics, because they were coined after French aristocracy took over Britain following William the Conqueror's invasion from Normandy.  I would say that for the rest, English is much like German - look up "Harry Potter and the half blood prince" in German and see. About learning "latin," I never said anything about learning latin itself - you misinterpreted me.  I was referring to languages with latin roots, that is French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, et cetera.  Learning one of THOSE would make learning the OTHERS a bit easier. The truth is, the geopolitical engines of both Washington and Beijing need, to a certain extent, some kind of antagonistic scrapegoat or target for survival. I believe it has more to do with diverting people's attention by means on defining a common enemy.  The majority of people in the world are uneducated, overly emotional, and easily influenced, sort to say. There is a very simple way of reducing the Chinese threat. Why don't we make an economic embargo on China? Without the U.S., the Chinese economy wil crumble. And Walmart too. Americans will pay more for products, but it is a sacrifice that we are willing to make. Bush can do it. He can protect us from the future menace. Oh! Wait! Bush delivered our economy to the Chinese so that he could fund the Iraqi quagmire! Thanks to the huge amount of dollars that the Chinese own, the U.S. gets to dance at their tune--or else. And Bush's and the Republican Party's masters, corporations, WANT to do business with China. And Bush and the Republican Party will do whatever his corporate donors want. The U.S. created the Chinese "menace" with its dollars, just like it created Saddam Husein and Osama Bin Laden, and Al Qeada. You don't understand how serious this Chinese threat is, do you?  If China decided to release every single dollar bills from its treasury into world's economy, the dollar value would depreciate so much that the US economy would most likely undergo a soaring inflation rate, which would crash its markets.  Because so many countries depend on US for foreign money, they would follow, and soon the world would screw itself up.  I'm not sure if that's what China wants (which is not likely given their circumstances now as trading partners), but it's possible.

Demon,

Have you ever taken a formal class in any of the "Latin" base languages?  If you have, good for you.  I wish you continue success in your studies.  However, based upon my personal experience, knowing English did not help me in learning French one bit.  However, using you logic, if you were to learn Latin, then learning the others "Latin" based languages will be easier.  That was the point I was trying to make.

But that is really not the point of this thread.  It is about Chinese.  Is Chinese a useful language.  Yes, just like any other language.  Is everybody learning it?  No. 

However, I see the reaction that America has to the "Chinese Language Threat" paralleling the reaction the French has to English.  I don't need to go into details (I am sure most know what I am talking about).  It is a rather childish & paranoid.

Look, it all boils down to this.  An individual will learn another language because it is useful to him or her.  When I mean useful, I mean financially rewarding.  Another reason is to pick up chicks.  Thats why I "pick up" Japanese.

Originally posted by hugoestr Originally posted by demon You don't understand how serious this Chinese threat is, do you? If China decided to release every single dollar bills from its treasury into world's economy, the dollar value would depreciate so much that the US economy would most likely undergo a soaring inflation rate, which would crash its markets. Because so many countries depend on US for foreign money, they would follow, and soon the world would screw itself up. I'm not sure if that's what China wants (which is not likely given their circumstances now as trading partners), but it's possible. Yes, I understand that this is my threat. And if you had bothered to read my argument, you will see that I am making the same point. Because China can harm the U.S. economy to such an extent, the U.S. is in no position to fight against it. The only way to for the U.S. to really be able to defend itself is by having a stronger, debt free economy. Until the U.S. is debt free, its macho talk against China is no more serious than that of Latin American dictators blasting the U.S. And remember: the Republican government gave China this power over my country. Had they avoided getting in debt, the U.S. would be in a strong position today. Instead, we are at the mercy of a foreign power.

I like to raise a question to all.  Being that Japan, not China, is the largest holder of US. Treasuries, why is Japan not viewed a threat?  Because Japan always Kowtow to every thing the US "ask"?

Keep in mind that this is a two way street.  China benefits from US trade, but so does the US.  That computer you are using to post your views, how much did you pay to get it?  Does anybody remember how much computers were in the early eighties?  How about all the junk homeowners buy to improve their homes thinking that the value of their homes will never go down in value. 

Trade with China is a mutually beneficial.  It is not the foreigners fault that the US cannot live within their means.  It is rather comical that we (US) complains that prices are too high but we should not trade with China because they flood us with cheap goods.  Also keep in mind that all those factories are run and partly owned by American companies.  Companies like Dell, Home Depot, Wal Mart, Microsoft, etc...

Also put yourself in say S. Korea position.  Would it not be more advantagous if you have two consumer markets where you can sell your goods instead of one?  Reliance on one source of revenue is not a prudent plan to sound economic planning.

That is the reason why the US is so uneasy.  They want to be the only source of strength.  This is a short term view.  Has it dawn upon anybody that one day, China may/already want to buy American goods?  When the Chinese banking system and consumer develops, they will want more goods and services from all countries. 

Let's not forget that in the late 80's and early 90's before the economic bubble bursted in Japan, there was a huge wave of anti-Japanese sentiment and a lot of Japan-bashing going on in the United States at both the government and the populace levels (something that's not helped by the "Japan as no. 1" claim made by some Japanese politicians and economists). Then, the Americans basically accused the Japanese of exactly what they are accusing the Chinese of now - "unfair" trade manifested in the form of immense trade deficits.

I think the pattern is clear. First of all, there is an element of scapegoating. There is a huge trade deficit? Let's find someone to blame. Second, whenever a hegemonic power feels threatened, it would try to use whatever means to keep its most fierce competitor in check. So reasonable or not, the United States is just doing whatever a hegemonic power under challenge is expected to do. Any other country in the same position wouldn't act any differently.

To Hugo and Flyzone,

Basically, I am trying to state is that there must be a rational seperation between economic and military issue when it comes to China or any other country.  Economic propersity does not just benefit just China and the US, but globally.  I dont think people appreciate in many parts of the world, people go hungry every night.  The only solution is through economic development globally.  Yes, there will be a lot of uneven growth from one nation to another, but in the long run, countries like China, India, Brazil can grow economically, that will bring the standard of living higher.  Thus having a economic ripple effect on her neighbors.  The world cannot rely solely on the US for growth long term.  The US economy will crack if it continues in its borrowing pattern.  Borrowing on the consumer and government level.  The world needs more US like economies.

Originally posted by flyingzone Originally posted by Americanus Whatever we do we need to make sure that when the time comes the NATO countries will stand with. I know Britain will GO Britian but we need everbody especially the japs and the South Koreans. Please stop calling the Japanese "Japs"!!!! So many AE formers seem to have this unfortunate insensitivity and ignorance when it comes to addressing the Japanese people. Enough is enough.

Japs isn't that bad a term, it's not racial in any way like the term for Chinese people is.  It's like calling Americans "Ami's" or "Yanks".  It might not be the best term, but I don't think it's meant as an insult.

I didnt think japs was bad, its just a short cut which we do with everyone over here, like australian>aussie> ozi, there are other words that come to mind that are offensive.

So, when did Austrailia become famous for their racial sensitivity?

Aren't they the 52nd State yet?  Well, they would fit quite well with the rest of Southern States.

 www.52nd.blogspot.com/2005/05/fool-me-twice.html