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PAC or Pak Afghan Confederation

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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PAC or Pak Afghan Confederation
    Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 03:01

Originally posted by Gharanai

Well well we have some long list of new updates:

 

First of all thanks alot dear Ruffian for copy pasting material from Wikipedia as you know Copying things and then Pasting requries some art.

 

Afterwards dear TrueAfghan,

First of all welcome to the forum and I am glad to have another Afghan along side with me in this forum (THAT'S IF YOU REALY ARE AN AFGHAN).

 

It is an internet forum...what you think or not about my origin and also what i think about yours is of no use...these useless nad pity attacks like "if you are really an Afghan." is really laughable... Im as Afghan as one can get so lets leave this..magar maloom namesha ke khudet afghan bashe/ Dasi na akhkar che ta Afghan yee..no allah o allaham.

 

 

 

Second I read your long statements and found them very interesting as your claims and words (to be honest) showed some amaturity on the topic (I am saying that because times back I too used to say same, but after reading and analysing situations and history today I am a different personality).

Again pitty personal attacks.. you would save youself lots of trouble if you argue you point and say why you think what i state is "amature"!

 

 

I mean to be precise you claim that only NWPF and Balochestan has links (cultural and racial) with Afghanistan not other parts, I don't have any argument in that and neither will any other one will have as the entire world know that Punjabis and Sindhis are more of Hindic or Indus racial.

 

 
Yet arguing my own point back to me. Confused 

 

 

 

 

What I wanted to say and see is that I want the same environment what used to be there, the FIRST ever Afghan Empire (I am sure you know that the Word Afghanistan came into existance in the year 1747) of Ahmad Shah Baba (Durrani) which consisted of the entire Pakistan of today and then we stood togather for a long long period of time.

 

We didn't have things similar to each other but we came to know each others traditions better, know each others way of life better and then all the sudden a foriegn force (GB) comes and divides us, AS FAR AS MY THINKING IS CONCERNED, THAT'S THE DAY THAT MY HOUSE WAS DIVIDED, THAT'S THE DAY WHEN TWO BROTHERS SEPARATED!

 

 

  

 

The word "Afghanistan" is much older then Durranis...you should read Babur e Nahman he mentions "Afghanistan"...great Farsi/Dari poet Ferdawsi also mentions Afghanistan 

In Tarikh-e Herat authored by Saifi Herawi (circa 1342) who calls the western lands, as far as the Indus---Afghanistan. From this it is evident that when Herat was the capital of the Kurts, and after the passing of the period of polItical unity of the Ghaznavids and the Ghorids, when the country was being vanquished by the belligerent armies of Genghiz, Afghanistan was a customary name but not to the extent as in the period of Ahmad Shah Durani. 

 

Anyways when I talk about Afghanistan I was talking the in terms of modern Political bordersas example of states as in terms of their racial-historical background . It seems like you have misunderstood me and got confused by the political means of these borders which no Afghan recognizes. When we say Afghan land---Afghanistan--We meant the land of Racial and culturally Afghan habitats. While both Balochistan and Pashtonistan are righteous afghan land but Punjab and Sind are notalthough it were part of same empire a few times. Indeed im not sure if you are aware or not of sentiment of Punjabis against Afghans and im not talking about Sikh Punjabis but Muslims here what Punjabi poet Waris Shah wrote when Ahmad Shah Durrani come to Hindustan upon invitation of Shah Waliullah, a renowned religious intellectual of Delhiwho ask Ahmad Shah Durrnai to liberate Muslim from Hindus.

 

 

Wang Kabuli kuttian gird hoyan dow dow alalhisab laga gayyan

 

 

 

You should ask one of Punjabis here to translate the poems to you. This shows that while religion can be same but culturally and racial difference will always be strong.

 

 

 

 

 

So you have to see at a bigger picture, right now the only way to survive (people of both nations) is to unite, else DON'T THINK THAT PAKISTAN IS GOING TO BE DOOMED AND THAT'S IT, IF THAT HAPPENS, TRY TO IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO AFGHANISTAN?

 

You see what I want to see is to come out of the small box and try to think things in a bigger scene, forget about what HAPPENED, try to think what will HAPPEN!

 

Try to to solve the problem not increase the proble, that's more like what I want to say!

 

Religion can not bind people...if it was the case Bangladesh would have still remain part of Pakistan. What is interestingly that you try to unite with same people who proudly boast to be Mahras khoraan of Angriz (British succor) who have kept our pashton people backward with savage collective punishment British Raj rule and regulation under stricture of FATA and PATA. 

 

Indeed even in term of Number/ population there 100 times more Indic people---PUNJABIS/Sindi/Saraki andthen Afghanian thus the union you preach will undermine Afghan culture and Afghan identity it will not be long when Afghans will dance Bangra and practice other indic culture(not that there is anything wrong with it but its not our culture) as we see some of Fathan of Peshawar already do thatso what you basically preach is slavery of Afghanian race to that of Indic.

 

The only solution is the reunion of Afghanian people with their motherland---mind you we in Afghanistan are not greedy we simple want what is righteous ours. The fact is that Pakistan would not have emerged as a nation, had it not been for narrow minded and radical two nation theory which uphold religion as base for identity! Thus obious Pakistan will nurtured and imposed an Islamic Nationalism which defied geographic boundaries among Muslims.(radicalization of Pashton youth in Pakistais run Madrassa)this way they enter in an alliance with the old Pashton yearning for unity with their brethren in their father/mother land-Afghanistan, while keeping the rest of Pakistan intact. Thus the problems in region is because of Pakistan conceptreligion identity...the union you preach would be yet again base on religion---because there is absolutely no linkage other then religionthus the continuation of the problems we face.

 

 

 

 



Edited by True Afghan - 24-Mar-2008 at 03:08
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 05:19
Originally posted by True Afghan

I could be high on daal and Paan....Makani Daal my favorite thou..specially with Makan ka Rotie.. yammy!

 

You must have a pretty weak constitution to get high on "daal" (pulses). But then again you are a "True Afghan", vintage Arlington, Texas.  So tell me Tex, whats wrong? High on pulses? I would see a doctor for that.
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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 15:34
Originally posted by Sparten

Originally posted by True Afghan

I could be high on daal and Paan....Makani Daal my favorite thou..specially with Makan ka Rotie.. yammy!

 

You must have a pretty weak constitution to get high on "daal" (pulses). But then again you are a "True Afghan", vintage Arlington, Texas.  So tell me Tex, whats wrong? High on pulses? I would see a doctor for that.
 

I call that Daal syndrome but that is another issue... you should have simple ask where Im located...you would have saved yourself a lot of trouble by looking up my IP...specially when I use a Dynamic IP. Re-check my IP now. LOL

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 15:47
No need, on this forum Tex, the mod squad is all knowing and all seeing. There is nothing we don't know. So Arlington Texas. Why, lots of affinity with that other true Afghan, George W Bush?
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  Quote Conservative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2008 at 15:42
Strange topic. I've never met an Afghan who wanted to unite their country with Pakistan and the Afghans i've met usually are quite hostile towards Pakistanis and look down on them with disdain. Based on my interactions with Afghans in the past it is quite clear to me that they are only interested in "reclaiming Afghan territory" that was included in Pakistan at the time of its creation by the British, or something like that. I thought it was a common feeling among nationalist type Afghans but seems like it is a universal Afghan goal that even the Talebans share as you can see in the article below.
 
THE AFGHAN MISSION: TALKING TO THE TALIBAN: TRIBAL DIPLOMACY

Pakistan's brutal beneficiaries betray their refuge

Globe survey finds Taliban have only harsh words for nation that allegedly supports them, claiming large parts of it belong to them

GRAEME SMITH
gsmith@globeandmail.com
March 26, 2008

KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN -- Despite a long history of using Pakistan as a safe haven, Taliban on the front lines of the insurgency say they have no loyalty to their neighbouring country.

A survey of 42 insurgents in Kandahar found most were critical about Pakistan, where they are reported to have headquarters and supply lines, and most were critical of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, often using the harshest language to describe him.

Some insurgents claimed they want to fight for the seizure of vast swaths of Pakistan's territory in the name of expanding Afghanistan to include the major cities of Quetta and Peshawar. Every fighter asked said those two cities belong inside Afghanistan, and all of them rejected the existing border as a legitimate boundary between the countries.

The Globe and Mail's modest sample of Taliban opinion may only reflect an effort by the insurgents to hide their sources of support in Pakistan, analysts say, or it may point to something more troubling: the growing indications that parts of the insurgency are no longer controlled by anybody.

"If they are supported by ISI [Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency], why are they attacking Pakistan?" said Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the former Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, after reviewing The Globe's raw video footage. "Why would the ISI want these kinds of activities in Pakistan? It's out of control. Nobody is able to control it."

"This is Afghan government propaganda, about the Pakistan government controlling the Taliban."

Few historians dispute that Pakistan's intelligence services played a decisive role in establishing the Taliban movement in 1994, and Islamabad appeared to retain a strong influence over the regime that seized Kabul two years later.

President Musharraf formally cut ties with the Taliban in 2001, but in recent years a growing number of observers have accused Pakistan's agents, or former agents, of continuing their assistance for the radical movement.

"With the collaboration of elements within one of Pakistan's ... intelligence services, the ISI, the Pashtun borderlands have become a safe haven for the Taliban," write Thomas Johnson and Chris Mason, of the Naval Postgraduate School in California, in a coming issue of the journal International Security.

The Afghan government strongly endorses that view, often helping journalists arrange interviews with captured insurgents who tell stories of training centres in Pakistan.

During one such interview session last year at the Kandahar Governor's Palace, an Afghan intelligence official paraded out a group of prisoners who described themselves as Pakistanis persuaded to wage jihad against foreign troops in Afghanistan after attending madrassas in Pakistan. They gave details of an informal training camp in Chaman, Pakistan, that suggested the insurgents were making little effort to hide their activities from local authorities.

If the Taliban are creatures of Pakistan, however, The Globe and Mail's survey suggests they are not a particularly obedient creation.

Some parts of the Taliban in particular, such as the recently created Pakistani Taliban group led by Baitullah Mehsud, have proven themselves more of a threat within Pakistan than anywhere else.

"The Islamist extremist Frankenstein is no longer confined to the whims of political power games," wrote Irm Haleem, a South Asian expert who teaches at New York's Seton Hall University, in an article this month that devoted itself to the comparison between the Taliban and Mary Shelley's mythical creature.

Every insurgent asked by The Globe researcher said huge parts of Pakistan belong to Afghanistan, but they offered varying ideas about how much territory should be claimed and how it is historically justified.

One fighter said that only half of Pakistan's provinces, Sindh and Punjab, rightfully belong in the country.

"Those areas of Pakistan were small," the fighter said. "In the time of Zahir Shah or someone else, then they made this line [the new border]." Another gave a similar explanation for the loss of Quetta and Peshawar: "The King Zahir Shah sold them, but when Mullah Omar was in Kandahar, he saw the contracts and the contracts were expired."

In fact, the Durand Line agreement established the southeastern border of Afghanistan in 1893, long before the reign of King Zahir Shah, which lasted from 1933 to 1973. Pakistan and Afghanistan still formally disagree about whether the agreement has expired.


Some of the Taliban seemed to be appropriating the nationalistic cause of reclaiming the Durand territory as part of the insurgency's agenda.

"They [Quetta and Peshawar] absolutely belong to Afghanistan, and if we become successful in our war we will take it back from Pakistan, because it is a part of our holy Afghanistan," one insurgent said.

"Unfortunately, at the moment, Afghanistan is in a big pressure: Non-Muslims are here," another fighter added. "But when the non-Muslims leave Afghanistan, then it [the Durand territory] can never be a part of Pakistan. We will erase the Durand line."

Others blamed the government of President Hamid Karzai for failing to raise the issue with Islamabad, implying that Mr. Karzai cannot take action because he is controlled by foreign powers.

One fighter, asked why Pakistan retains control of the territory, said, "Because there is no Islamic government, all of them are non-Muslims, and the government of Pakistan is also a non-Islamic government, and that's why."

"The British handed it over to them," another said. "Where is the government? It belongs to the Americans now."


"So the Americans don't want it to be a part of Afghanistan?" he was asked. "He [Mr. Musharraf] is also a son of the Americans, and Karzai is as well. So if he [President George W. Bush] takes it from one son and gives it to another, what does he gain here?"

Despite their talk about Pakistan's unfair seizure of the Pashtun lands, the Taliban were strongly reluctant to accept the idea of "Pashtunistan" as a separate country, a concept raised by some ethnic nationalists in the border region. Only four respondents said they favour the creation of a new country for Pashtuns.

These front-line fighters likely don't realize the close relationship between Pakistan's government and the insurgents, said one Western expert in Kandahar.

"How many idealists have been manipulated by Machiavellian masters who kept themselves hidden in world history?" the observer said. "They almost certainly are not aware of the Pakistan government's involvement in their movement."

A former Afghan intelligence officer, whose experience in Kandahar spans three decades, agreed that the Taliban are unaware of their masters.

"The ISI co-ordinates Taliban activities, for sure," the retired officer said. "But the ISI has a few members who are leading the Taliban and the Taliban don't always understand the Pakistan role behind them. If the Taliban were aware they are puppets, they would stop fighting."

During a long afternoon of discussion last year in Kandahar, a Taliban sympathizer chuckled at the idea of the insurgents as unwitting pawns.

"The Pakistanis have two faces," said the full-bearded man, with an ample belly and a quick laugh. "They're friends with Talibs and Americans at the same time. They are betrayers of Islam."

He continued: "Pakistan gets money from Americans and uses many tricks against the Taliban. They give the Taliban money, training and places to stay. On the other side, they arrest them and sell them. ... The small Taliban don't understand this."
 
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 03:14
Originally posted by Conservative

I've never met an Afghan who wanted to unite their country with Pakistan and the Afghans i've met usually are quite hostile towards Pakistanis and look down on them with disdain. Based on my interactions with Afghans in the past it is quite clear to me that they are only interested in "reclaiming Afghan territory" that was included in Pakistan at the time of its creation by the British, or something like that. I thought it was a common feeling among nationalist type Afghans but seems like it is a universal Afghan goal that even the Talebans share as you can see in the article below.

If you'll notice, reclaiming Afghan territory, and a union between Afghanistan & Pakistan, is exactly the same thing.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 07:36

Don't worry Afghans have already claimed their "lost" territory

 
 
 
Afghan refugee camp/ strategic bridgehead in Khybar Agency a few miles outside Peshawar.
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 14:19
Originally posted by Conservative

Strange topic. I've never met an Afghan who wanted to unite their country with Pakistan and the Afghans i've met usually are quite hostile towards Pakistanis and look down on them with disdain. Based on my interactions with Afghans in the past it is quite clear to me that they are only interested in "reclaiming Afghan territory" that was included in Pakistan at the time of its creation by the British, or something like that. I thought it was a common feeling among nationalist type Afghans but seems like it is a universal Afghan goal that even the Talebans share as you can see in the article below.


The "lost territory" that Afghan nationalists refer to includes 100% of present day pakistan as well as parts of India which include Delhi. At one time, 200+ years ago, the founder of modern Afghanistan Ahmad Shah Durrani conquered all this territory including a chunk of present day Iran(herat and mashad) and called it the Durrani empire. Well actually he did not really conquer anything east of the Indus...it was just given to him as a peace offering by the Mughal Empire in return for not attacking the mughals. Eventually this empire started to disintegrate starting with the area currently northeast pakistan(aka punjab handed over to Ahmad Shah without firing a shot). Then the British finally took over the punjab by 1850 and using punjabi footsoldiers they attacked and conquered what became the rest of modern pakistan and signed the durrand line treaty with Afghanistan. When the british left they gave pakistan control of all the conquered territories and since then Afghans have been trying to annex back pakhtun and baloch majority areas(NWFP, Balochistan and FATA) using any means possible including seduction, infiltration, spies, soviet help, american help, russian help, terrorists and their own agents within pakistan's federal and provincial governments.

So far they failed and will not give up trying until they are completely destroyed or they win back some areas or recognize the international border which has been up for 120 years now.
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  Quote maqsad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 14:24
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Conservative

I've never met an Afghan who wanted to unite their country with Pakistan and the Afghans i've met usually are quite hostile towards Pakistanis and look down on them with disdain. Based on my interactions with Afghans in the past it is quite clear to me that they are only interested in "reclaiming Afghan territory" that was included in Pakistan at the time of its creation by the British, or something like that. I thought it was a common feeling among nationalist type Afghans but seems like it is a universal Afghan goal that even the Talebans share as you can see in the article below.

If you'll notice, reclaiming Afghan territory, and a union between Afghanistan & Pakistan, is exactly the same thing.


That's not quite true. Afghans want to grab Balochistan(which is now 45% afghan refugees mainly clustered in Quetta), FATA, NWFP and parts of Baltistan. Balochistan is the easiest target with just 6 million people, a lot of natural resources and 45% afghan refugees. I doubt Afghans have a chance in hell of conquering anything else close to the Indus. Too much resistance. This is why they are harboring the BLA on their territory and have been since the 80s. I'm quite sure they have proposed many "projects" to their CIA handlers concerning Balochistan by now. LOL
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 17:22

You know I'm just off and on again contributor here, but I have to say again, whats the point really?  Its kind of like counting the chickens before they hatch.  Afghanistan and Pakistan are so many years away from this discussion of borders that its just as Afghans say "Khyaal Palao"

What I really want to see in both countries is genuine cooperation to get rid of the foreigners in our counties, and curb the drug trade.  Lets mend some mutual problems before we look into these other issues that could clearly be fixed if both countries were stable enough.
 
 
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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 19:29
Originally posted by Sparten

Don't worry Afghans have already claimed their "lost" territory

 
 
 
Afghan refugee camp/ strategic bridgehead in Khybar Agency a few miles outside Peshawar.

 

 

Get hold of a Pashton in Peshawar and ask for his ID card... his race is written clearly as Afghan. So no worries... these internal displace ppl are in their own landand I dare any government to try to force these people out of their father and forefathers land.  

Now for past 60s years political Islam might have had work well for pakistan The good news is that in this post 911 world the same Sahaab that Pakistani had have served for 200 years of their rule are now forcing Ponjabis to betray their own foreign policy and the thousands of Pakis theyve indoctrinated to their sick cause in the guise of religion. Now most of world know well the Ponjabis propensity to cowardice, but the Pashtuns in Pashtunistan will feel the pinch. Theyll not be as forgiving as say the Punjabi mindset will allowand herein lays the Tsunami ahead.

Here is another true Afghan...proud of his identity. his party recently won the election in Pashtonistan..see what he call himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EclMLaj1dYs...feature=related

 

 

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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 19:50
Originally posted by Afghanan

You know I'm just off and on again contributor here, but I have to say again, whats the point really?  Its kind of like counting the chickens before they hatch.  Afghanistan and Pakistan are so many years away from this discussion of borders that its just as Afghans say "Khyaal Palao"

What I really want to see in both countries is genuine cooperation to get rid of the foreigners in our counties, and curb the drug trade.  Lets mend some mutual problems before we look into these other issues that could clearly be fixed if both countries were stable enough.
 
 

 

Are you really afghan? i say this without any offense meantSeriously why are you so eager to sever the enemy when for the first time in history we have a clear political-strategically advantage over them? To the point that enemies representative in US formally offers to give up FATA in our favorIndeed you need to realize that we in Afghanistan are NOT greedy. We just want the restoration of what rightfully is ours! What interest we had in an outpost like Moscow if it was not for greatest injustice south of our border? Do you even know that Pakistan creation on our land and people was/is an assault on our identity, culture and survival as people! The problem is not the village idiots in shap or form of simpleton taliban..the problem is that  in absent of national coherence in Pakistan, political Islam has been the ONLY means at the Pakistani governments disposal for enduring the life of Pakistan. Thus naturally Pakistani will do everything possible to keep the people of Pashtonistan backward as we see with continuation of British Raj rule and regulation in Pashton land. Indeed this is why Pakistan creates and support terrorist in shape of Taliban to ike radicalization Pashtons society. This is exactly the reason why Pashton nationalist parties have been prevented from so called FATA while the Islamist has been given not only free hand but state support in order to brainwashed Pashton youth!   

You need to realize the criticalness of danger the Ponjabi state-pakistan posed to Afghan/Pashton survival as people! After all, who are the Pakis if none other than the same servants of Mughal India who aroused the irony and the suffering that weighed heavily on Khushal Khan Khattaks heart? Is the Pakistani establishment not the same mercenaries of the British Raj engaged in violence and betrayal against their own? Did they not serve Colonial Britain to the end, with their reward having been the wholesale theft of other peoples lands? Are they not responsible for dividing tribes and families apart whilst keeping them that way through means that both foster and maintain a state of ignorance and moral depravity in both south and central Asia?

 

Screw the peace you need to realize that we have absolty nothing to loss.. everything we had was destroyedGIVE A WAR A CHANCEOR FOREVER HOLD YOU PEACE! Big%20smile

 

 

 

 

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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 22:01
The biggest problem True Afghan to Afghanistan is Afghans themselves, not Pakistanis.  The truth is too spicy for most Afghans inside and outside the country to swallow.
 
Look at Karzai and his gang of corrupt officials who have made Kabul look worse than Peshawar.
 
Every official that has criticized the Karzai government has been forced off, or left office prematurely either because of frustration, or death threats.  Dostum can beat the hell out of an apointed Karzai official in Mazar, and no one can do anything about it.  Karzai's brother is part of the drug trade, yet nobody talks about it.  Corruption is in every part of the government and taken over development projects. 
 
What about the fact that if you look at Wazir Akbar Khan district in Kabul, right next to a 4 story Bungalow with marble entrance, arched entrances,  and gold colored fences...there sits a tent with a family of 4 who prays to God everynight for just a piece of bread.
 
These people to me are not Muslim, and are not Afghan. 
 
If you want Afghanistan to go forward, be more active in changing the ground realities within the country.  Afghanistan is in NO position to fight for territory when it can't even govern what it already has.


Edited by Afghanan - 01-Apr-2008 at 22:01
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 06:06
Originally posted by Maqsad

That's not quite true. Afghans want to grab Balochistan(which is now 45% afghan refugees mainly clustered in Quetta), FATA, NWFP and parts of Baltistan. Balochistan is the easiest target with just 6 million people, a lot of natural resources and 45% afghan refugees. I doubt Afghans have a chance in hell of conquering anything else close to the Indus. Too much resistance. This is why they are harboring the BLA on their territory and have been since the 80s. I'm quite sure they have proposed many "projects" to their CIA handlers concerning Balochistan by now.

Yes, but my point was the dispute is not that Afghanistan & Pakistan are not one country divided. The dispute is which political system governs it. [If we assume that Afghanistan actually had a political system & army atm]
Does Afghanistan conquer Pakistan?
Does Pakistan conquer Afghanistan?
Do they peacefully unite?

All of those questions result in the same ground reality - one country.

Given that Afghanistan doesn't have a government, option 2 is the only current option. The only issue in implementing it is to ensure that the Afghans see it as a restoration of the lost borders & distintergration of the Durrand line, and not as a Islamabad take over.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 07:57
After discussion in the mod room, True Afghan has been issued a warning for this remark on top of excessive nationalism
Originally posted by True Afghan

Now most of world know well the Ponjabis propensity to cowardice

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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 17:05

What you say fits very well with enemys propaganda that wants to questioning Afghan ability in order to make Afghan ashamed of their culture so they would become more inclined to adopt indic culture. If you got o Peshawar you will see there is dept inferiority complex when it comes to Pashto speakersthe official policy is to make sure those that speak English and Urdu feel more educated or modernize.having reside in India for a year I had notice the same thing with regards to English. most Indians if not all have this inferiority complex for anything westerns. Like talking English, acting westernized is considered sophisticated, educated, and cultured.the same I notice in Karachi and Lahorehaving a typical afghan feature I was stopped countless time by Pakistani police. in Punjab and Sindwhen I communicated with Pakistani police in English they would apologize and let me goif I talk in Punjabi or Urdu they would be more harsh and demand bribe. The point in indicating these experiences is that there deep inferiority complex in Indic people when it comes to SAHEEB and the irony is that these same brown Saheeb descendent of those that faithfully served the British during their rule are trying to undermine Afghan/Pashton culture with their masters scheme. On one hand the Indic people can not complete a single sentence in their national language(Call it Urdu/Hindi or Hindustani its all same language) without usage of Dari which was imposed on their forefathers by swords of kings and rulers from Afghanistanon other hand they call the border region frontier---a word British use to indicate border between civilized and barbaric people. On one hand they glorify Afghan kings and rulers whom interestingly subdued their own forefathers by naming their bombs and rockets after them on other hand they are promoting ignorant simpletons like Taliban under pretext of strategic depth(pardon the accent).

Indeed you are not focusing on real malady but you are concern about symptoms of it you worry about lack of governmentweak government but forget it is all due to Durand line. As I said in my pervious post can you think of a reason or interest Kabul had in outpost like Moscow if it was not to greatest injustice south of our border? The purpose of Durand line was/is to keep a weak, and subjected Afghanistanthat is why the people in FATA and border region are purposely kept backward, brainwashed with filth of Taliban.

Pakistan is fallowing the same policy of Iran with regards to Azerbaijan---trying to keep the country weak and in turmoil in order to prolong their occupation of Azari people.

You want to know the ills of Afghanistan.. then look no future then filth of Durand and Dewband---both creation  of foreigners.

 

 

 



Edited by True Afghan - 02-Apr-2008 at 17:12
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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 17:11

You should read some British Raj area books about India.. specially those about character and habits of people of IndiaNevertheless what I state was not meant to offend Punjabi people I have great memories from Punjab both Lahore and Amritsar and I like punjabi people..in fact some of my best friends are Punjabis.

 

 

 

 

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 17:37
Pakistan is fallowing the same policy of Iran with regards to Azerbaijan---trying to keep the country weak and in turmoil in order to prolong their occupation of Azari people.

You mean Azari occupation of Iranian people right (including Azaris)?
Khamane'i is Azari
Ahmadinejad is Azeri (as was Khatami)
Previous and current heads of the most powerful element in Iran the Revolutionary [Praetorian] Guard are Azari.  The biggest thugs and murderers of the islamic regime, such as Khalkhali, were and are Azari.
 
Presedential candidates are vetted to ensure that they are pro-Islamic republic enough which usually means that most are Azari.  It was the same under the Shah, apart from being three quarters Azari himself, was just the pawn of an underlying Azari hokumat.  
 
In fact I am certain that he majority of Iranians not including Azaris of Azarbaijan region would be happy for Azari independence if it meant that they took their regime with them.
 
Most Azeris reside outside Azerbaijan, such as the once almighty baazaris, whom the IRGC has since disenfranchised - I am referring to these rather than the inhabitants of Azerbaijan region which itself over the centuries has given Iran some of the best secular, nationalist Iranian patriots such as Sattar Khan. Again by all indications in the region of Azarbaijan there is scant separatist sentiment.  Don't be fooled byt eh likes of Chehrengali who hold massive protests of 15 people and film them chanting ant-Iran slogans while the camera is fixated on them and random people walk past wondering what is going on!
 
Unfortunately however if the fine people of Azarbaijan did break away from iran one day the rest of us would be left with their fanatic bretheren since they don't actually reside in Azarbaijan.


Edited by Zagros - 02-Apr-2008 at 18:56
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  Quote True Afghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 21:45
Originally posted by Zagros

Pakistan is fallowing the same policy of Iran with regards to Azerbaijan---trying to keep the country weak and in turmoil in order to prolong their occupation of Azari people.

You mean Azari occupation of Iranian people right (including Azaris)?
Khamane'i is Azari
Ahmadinejad is Azeri (as was Khatami)
Previous and current heads of the most powerful element in Iran the Revolutionary [Praetorian] Guard are Azari.  The biggest thugs and murderers of the islamic regime, such as Khalkhali, were and are Azari.
 
Presedential candidates are vetted to ensure that they are pro-Islamic republic enough which usually means that most are Azari.  It was the same under the Shah, apart from being three quarters Azari himself, was just the pawn of an underlying Azari hokumat.  
 
In fact I am certain that he majority of Iranians not including Azaris of Azarbaijan region would be happy for Azari independence if it meant that they took their regime with them.
 
Most Azeris reside outside Azerbaijan, such as the once almighty baazaris, whom the IRGC has since disenfranchised - I am referring to these rather than the inhabitants of Azerbaijan region which itself over the centuries has given Iran some of the best secular, nationalist Iranian patriots such as Sattar Khan. Again by all indications in the region of Azarbaijan there is scant separatist sentiment.  Don't be fooled byt eh likes of Chehrengali who hold massive protests of 15 people and film them chanting ant-Iran slogans while the camera is fixated on them and random people walk past wondering what is going on!
 
Unfortunately however if the fine people of Azarbaijan did break away from iran one day the rest of us would be left with their fanatic bretheren since they don't actually reside in Azarbaijan.

 

These Azaris you mention are Persian speakers...so just like the old ruler.. Qajaries and Saffavid they are persianizedmore for over 500 years they have been ruling not only Azaris but Persian, kurd, Arabsso the question of Azari joining Russianized Azerbaijan in the name of Pan-Turkishim is ridiculous. That is why during Azerbaijan and Armenia warIRI actively sided with Christian Armenia against Shia Azerbaijan. Even more horrific is their  IRI bombing and killing our Kurdish brothers in Iraq and Kurdistan in order to please Turkey. 

 

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 22:15
You said that Iran was occupying Azarbaijan - can you justify this statement? Because you just stated that the union is largely a result of the Azari Safavis and Qajars who then became Persianised.  To me that does not equate to an Iranian occupation.

In addition, you have us Kurds who constitute a tiny portion of the population in relation to Azaris, yet there have been at least three different militant Kurdish anti-IRI groups over the last 30 years whereas there have never been any armed anti-government ethnic Azari groups.

There are several major ethnic groups which can be deemed inseparable from Iran: Shia Kurds, Lors, Azaris and Persians (including Bakhtiari, Gilani and Mazandarani).

Out of all Iranian ethnic groups Azaris have it the best, even more than Persians. During the Shah's time it was exactly the same except the regime was secular.

Of course I don't condone anything this regime does unless it by chance pertains to rebuffing foreign attempts at exploitation but he Pjak off-shoot of the PKK sprouted in 2004 when Iraq was overrun by the neo-colonialists and it initiated hostilities.  I support the PDKI because I know they are not charlatans and are genuinely concerned for Iranian Kurds and Iranians in general unlike Pjak who are nothing more than the pawns of imperialists.  And I don;t know of any civilian casualties as a result of IRI bombardment.  They are not as foolish as the Turks to launch a full scale military incursion into mountains against a determined and capable enemy.  Their tactic is to wait and watch at the border.


Edited by Zagros - 02-Apr-2008 at 22:22
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