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Omar al Hashim
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Topic: Iran Israel Alliance Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 01:11 |
Originally posted by mamikon
wait...exactly why Iranians and Arabians dislike each other. And
do Iranians consider themselves as Persians heritage or Arab
heritage? (Probably the former I just wanted to make sure).
Howcome Iran became muslim, but Armenia and Byzantium did not? (or why
did Armenia and Rome/Byzantium become Christian while Persians did not)
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Iranis have Aryan Heratige and are often called Persians. They are not Arabs who are semetic.
Most of the Byzantine territories are majority muslim now, eg Syria Egypt Anatolia, Byzantium (Istanbul) itself.
The sassanid persians were quite anti-christian as they were
continually fighting the christian Romans, but why people choose or
don't choose to convert to a religion is probably different for each
person.
Edited by Omar al Hashim
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mamikon
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 01:15 |
I mean, although a small nation, Armenia remained Christian throught
the Arab invasions. Howcome Persia, with its large territory and
population did not stay faithful to Zoroastrism (I spelled it wrong,
but give me a break its 1 AM here), maybe it got old
Edited by mamikon
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 01:52 |
Difficult question. You would probably have to look into culture,
politics, economics and each persons thoughts to know a true answer.
The sassanids had an old empire that was offically zoroastrian, so
chances are that alot of the population were disenfranchised with their
religion and government with its endless warmaking against the Romans
(as often happens at the end of empires and dynasties). So when Islam
came along most persians probably were jumping at the opportunity for reform and
change, embracing Islam. I also think it requires a much greater leap
of faith to be a Parsi than it does to be a muslim.
I know in the Byzantine lands the various Churches had been arguing
with each other over the most silly things, and the Church decleared
most of the middle eastern Christians heretics just after they were
conquered, and Islam was created to set the people back to the teaching
of Jesus and the other prophets.
Modern Armenia wasn't under Arab rule I believe, but Azerbaijan was,
and Azerbaijan is muslim. So Armenia had hundreds of years to develop
prejudeces about Islam while the Azerbaijanis and Iranis were
introduced to when the only way to learn about Islam was to learn the
truth. Also Armenians probably have a national idenity as Christians,
as in we're not like those guys 50k's away because we're christian and
their muslim.
I'm just guessing but
Edited by Omar al Hashim
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Miller
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 02:54 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Worshiping fire was so popular everyone abandoned it in droves, its a chemical reaction!
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Fire is a chemical reaction that is true, but kaaba is just a piece of stone covered by a piece of black cloth! Then why do you bend over 5 time a day facing it and worship it
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 03:26 |
It is just stone covered by cloth.
Your not worshipping the Kaaba, your worshipping God, who created fire and all chemical and nuclear reactions.
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Maju
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 03:46 |
Originally posted by mamikon
I mean, although a small nation, Armenia remained Christian throught
the Arab invasions. Howcome Persia, with its large territory and
population did not stay faithful to Zoroastrism (I spelled it wrong,
but give me a break its 1 AM here), maybe it got old
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Quite simple: Islam respects (more or less) the religions of the Book
(the Bible), that is Christianity and Islam. This is logical because it
was born in Western Arabia, where Christian and Jewish presence was
strong. Islam itself is concieved as descendant of those religions and
thus, the same that Christians respected (more or less) Judaism, Islam
respected its ancestors.
But Islam does not respect any other religion and, while it may be more
or les tolerant with non-Abrahmanic beliefs, depending on
circumstances, it's much more likely that these are aput on the spot of
religious intolerance.
Also Islam favors the enslavement of non-believers, what may exclude
Judeo-Christians but does not have to exclude other major faiths, like
Zoroastrianism or Hinduism, for instance.
Without doubt the pressure upon Zoroastrians was stronger than upon
Christians to convert. Yet, this backfired because Zoroastrian converts
adhered massively to the Shia faction, creating the first major
division within Islam.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 04:02 |
Originally posted by Maju
But Islam does not respect any other religion and, while it may be more
or les tolerant with non-Abrahmanic beliefs, depending on
circumstances, it's much more likely that these are aput on the spot of
religious intolerance.
Also Islam favors the enslavement of non-believers, what may exclude
Judeo-Christians but does not have to exclude other major faiths, like
Zoroastrianism or Hinduism, for instance.
Without doubt the pressure upon Zoroastrians was stronger than upon
Christians to convert. Yet, this backfired because Zoroastrian converts
adhered massively to the Shia faction, creating the first major
division within Islam.
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Maju, a repeat of the Jihad thread? Islam permits anyone to follow
whichever religion they want. To claim that there was more pressure on
Zoroastrians than Christians is to forget that the Christians converted
too.
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Zagros
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 04:57 |
The sassanids had an old empire that was offically zoroastrian, so chances are that alot of the population were disenfranchised with their religion and government with its endless warmaking against the Romans (as often happens at the end of empires and dynasties). So when Islam came along most persians probably were jumping at the opportunity for reform and change, embracing Islam. |
That is my opinion too, and i have often used Armenia as an example, infact Arabs later on preferred less converts so they could get more jiziah. Another interesting point that i have read is that 20% of the population was still Zaroastrian until the Safavids forced mass conversion to shiitism. Having said that, not all regions "embraced" with a few major cities, particularly in Afghanistan, reverting to Zaroastrianism and having to be reconquered.
ZAroastrrians do not worship fire, fire is merely sacred, they weree the first to belive in one god, they prayed five times a day and many concepts of their religion passed to islam and other Abrahamic faiths.
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Zagros
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 04:58 |
Zaroastrianism is actually considered a religion of the book.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:18 |
I think persians who get rid of mollah looks like young turks.
They think, If they get rid of mollah (like young turks) everything will be fine.But most probably a lot problem will rise with the downfall of mollah, like turkish and kurdish nationalism, a lot new conflict ext.
They also belittle mollah(again young turks), but Infact mollah are doing not such bad job, they are against Israel, not because of their religion, but because of national interest, they support christian armenians against muslim(shia) azeris(most probably nearest ethnic to iran), and they have no problem with working russia.
this Mollah also pressure turkish and kurdish nationalism, Infact they are asimilating azeris.
If I am persian, last thing I wish,would be to try islamic iran. Maybe 50-100 year laters, but not now.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:33 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
I know in the Byzantine lands the various Churches had been arguing with each other over the most silly things, and the Church decleared most of the middle eastern Christians heretics just after they were conquered, and Islam was created to set the people back to the teaching of Jesus and the other prophets.
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Was created to set the people back to the teaching of Jesus?Back from where?The churches may were on dispute from time to time during the late Byzantine period,but that mainly due to politics not religion.If some Christians or Christian priests abandonded His teachings,it does not mean that the whole body of Church abandoned it to.His teaching were always inside Christianity.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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Behi
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:42 |
@Omar al Hashim & mamikon: Have you read all post from first one
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Worshiping fire was so popular everyone abandoned it in droves, its a chemical reaction! | Please Don't speak when you don't know anything about Zartosht
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
The sassanid persians were quite anti-christian as they were
continually fighting the christian Romans,
| People correct me please, Which of Sassanid vs Roman wars was about religion???
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
So when Islam
came along most persians probably were jumping at the opportunity for reform and
change, embracing Islam. I also think it requires a much greater leap
of faith to be a Parsi than it does to be a muslim. | Again, have you read my post in first page??
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Your not worshipping the Kaaba, your worshipping God, who created fire and all chemical and nuclear reactions. | Well, I suggest, lets pray around Bushehr reactor (Joke)
Originally posted by Maju
Islam respects (more or less) the religions of the Book
(the Bible), that is Christianity and Islam. This is logical because it
was born in Western Arabia, where Christian and Jewish presence was
strong. Islam itself is concieved as descendant of those religions and
thus, the same that Christians respected (more or less) Judaism, Islam
respected its ancestors. | Jews weren't very respectful for Islam even at Mohammad life time,I've read Mohammad killed all Bani gharize or same for nabi nazir tribe people.I hope, I didn't have light up flame war Others responced by Zagros, Thank you
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Behi
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 05:48 |
Crazy worldHere we have Turks whom disagree alliance with Israel, But their goverment agree.& so Here we have Iranian whom agree alliance with Israel, But their goverment disagree..stamble();
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Mortaza
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:01 |
Crazy world Here we have Turks whom disagree alliance with Israel, But their goverment agree. & so Here we have Iranian whom agree alliance with Israel, But their goverment disagree..stamble();
hehe well said, about turks, not true about iranians. who said iranians are pro-israel?
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Behi
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:10 |
@Mortaza: only about AE forumers & not for all Iran or Turkey nationstamble();
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Mortaza
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:12 |
oh sorry, yep. you are right about this.
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azimuth
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:18 |
not many Iranians like israel not even majority. only those who have half knowledge about their own history and ignorant about the Israeli/Palistinian Issue.
their hate to the iranian Ruling system made them hate Arabs and Islam and made them feeling towards other groups which hate Islam and Arabs as well. groups such as Israelis.
since this topic isn't about "Current International Relations" i'll move this thread to historical amusement forum.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:26 |
Originally posted by azimuth
since this topic isn't about "Current International Relations" i'll move this thread to historical amusement forum. |
Nice move!
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Zagros
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:33 |
Why move it to historical amusement? This alliance was a historical FACT, and aside from that it is a valid discussion of international relations. Should the mullah regime fall, it would not be an outlandish event... As Mortaza pointed out national interest outweighs religion (Iran supporting Christian Armenia against Shiite FSR Azerbaijan during Azerbaijani Mullah's tenure in Iran).
Turkey right now is an ally of Israel, do most Turks support this alliance? I am not sure but they do what is int heir national interest.
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The Guardian
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 06:41 |
Originally posted by Miller
Originally posted by The Guardian
Iran is full of muslims!Muslims get an islamic revulution!Which is why Iran is not a christian state today, or any other, they are muslim. the vast majority of Iran is muslim. One of my sources can be seen below:
Religious affiliations |
Shiite Muslim | 93 percent |
| | Sunni Muslim | 6 percent |
| | Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i | 1 percent
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Yes, and 99% of the Soviets were listed as Communist in 1985
What is your point. Is it that 99% of Iranians have freely selected Islam as their religion and actually believe in it
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May I see your reliable source then?As I said, an Islamist nation gets an Islamic revolution, not a christian one
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It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
&nb
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