Are Armenian dead more important than Turkish dead?

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival Originally posted by akyncy Aha there you see something is wrong.We are still discussing the genocide and you say that the genocide was commited on a government order.Now,the government that gave the order(on your claims)was diffrent from the history we are proud of.They are ittihak ve terakki and did not have the same goals as he people.And you can clearly see why we do not accept their actions because we are the ones that brought them down Why wouldnt you accept their actions unless they actually did commit a genocide? You take pride in the centuries of Ottoman governments and rulers that in your words "have nothing to do with modern Turkey" but yet when the talk of genocide comes up you put the veil over your eyes. Thats like Germany not admitting or paying reparations for the Holocaust. They can just use the excuse "it was the Nazi regime". Its a weak argument that will never work on the world stage, its as simple as that.

Oh come on it's not too complicated!Te leladers that did the things we are proud of are very diffrent from ittihat ve terakki and they were hated at that time too.They controlled the sultan and they did not care about the country.If a whole nation hates them then we can neither say guilty or not guilty,or be proud of them.

And for the nazi's,they were supported by almost the entire nation so it's not the same

How is breaking away from foreign aggressors, from a previous monarchy, the establishment new laws, identity, constitution, alien treaties and the creation of a secular republic called "inheriting a country"? There is no resemblance of a status quo.

Edited by Seko

What half was massacred? What were the fruits of the former Ottoman empire that were reaped? Oh, they certainly did take control of the damage. they stopped the damage and created a Republic, created independence, government, created a modern alphabet, etc...

Thanks for the selective memory reminder. A latin alphabet was incorporated with Turkish sounding letters. The c as in "ch", same with the letter s, soft g, etc...

Historians are all welcome. They must show research to back up their claims. I hope that all will keep to such scientific standards.

Do you knnow how the Republic of Armenia was formed?

Did you know that the current lands of Armenia were held by a prior Turkish majority? Where are they now?

 

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival There was never a Turkish majority in present-day Armenia. The Ottomans moved Turks into many districts of the empire to make them the majority, but Turks have never been a majority in Armenia. Not even close. If there was a Turkish majority in Armenia like you claim, how would you think that would be possible without genocide?

maybe its because russians took the remaining gangs/bandits with themselves and kept them quite away from moscow to prevent the same against them, and as the guarantee they would keep staying there beside azeris

When the Russians invaded what is now Azerbaijan in the early 1800's they enlisted Armenians in their cause. In the wars that the Russians fought against the Ottomans and Persians from 1827 to 1829, Muslims were expelled from their lands in what today is Armenia, which then had a Turkish majority. Armenians were brought in and given the old Muslim lands. The Russians used their fellow Christians in maintaining a Christian base in Armenia. In fact the Armenians were not a majority in Ottoman lands either.  

There were roughly 100 years of animosity between Moslems and Christians in the Caucasus, after centuries of living with eachother. Soon, however, both sides killed. Armies fought. And remarkably both sides lost 40% of there population in those very same zones.

In Anatolia, Armenian nationalists attempted to create an Armenian state during the 19th-20'th centuries. They tried to claim Ottoman lands. Lands that were three-fourths Muslim.

In world war I many Ottomans were lost due to failures against the Russian army. Further losses were exacerbated when Armenians sided with the Russians and carried out a guerilla war. Ottoman rebels attempted to sieze major Ottoman cities, cut communication lines, assasinated officials, and forced the Ottomans to withdraw troops from various fronts in order to fight this internal enemy. The Armenian rebels were very successful in the city of Van. The largest city in southeastern Anatolia. They seized Van and held it till the Russian army arrived. The Ottomans, fearful of continued rebelion, deported Armenians form Anatolia to Syria and Iraq. It should also be noted that a large majority of those deported survived. A much larger portion than the Muslims and Armenians who were at the edges of both Russian and Ottoman empires. After the Armenians seized Van they killed every Muslim who did not escape (Turks and Kurds). Reprisals came from the Mulsims.  Back to the war front with the Ottomans, retreating Armenians had finally lost to the Ottomans. Armenians killed all the Turks they could find during their retreat. In turn Turkish locals hunted down Armenians.

 

Edited by Seko

I really do not know much about these claims but this was on the Savage Nation web site- Michael Savage
No, all human life is equal in value!!


'Mothers threw their children in the lake rather than let the Turks have them'
By Jeremy Page and Anthony Browne
Ninety years on, Armenian massacres are still causing political fallout

VARAZDAT was six when his family were driven from their home by Turkish troops in 1915. But even 90 years after Ottoman troops began the slaughter of up to 1.5 million Armenians, fear still flickers in his eyes.
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1580186,00.html

Originally posted by YAFES a lot of armenian in Turkey were adopted after 1915, and living as muslim, in a result of the muslim enviroment

You call it adopted, the rest of the world calls it ethnic cleansing of orphans, no Armenian wanted to give their child up to anyone. As it was written, some mothers would throw their children in lakes rather than have their children assimilated or have them starve to death. Some were forced due to the circumstances, others were taken away and given to Muslim families.

Originally posted by YAFES kurds(oh, god, even kurds)

I dont get what you mean by that statement.

Originally posted by YAFES When armenians were being transported to south, kurds looted almost every carriage.

Why would there be Kurdish bandits running wild and free unless the government wanted them to? You're telling me the mighty Ottoman Empire could not protect starving Armenian women and children from unarmed Kurds?

If you cant take measures to protect a group of people, you have no right to deport them. Its as simple as that.

Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival Originally posted by YAFES When armenians were being transported to south, kurds looted almost every carriage. Why would there be Kurdish bandits running wild and free unless the government wanted them to? You're telling me the mighty Ottoman Empire could not protect starving Armenian women and children from unarmed Kurds? If you cant take measures to protect a group of people, you have no right to deport them. Its as simple as that.

Mighty Ottoman Empire??Even though the Ottoman Empire had an army they still were untrained and they would never be able to cope with western style armies or guerilla gangs armed with russian rifles.They practically had no navy either.The most important ships were those two they had bought from the Germans!By the way deporting them without being able to protect them from cold starvation or bandits is the major reason so many Armenians have died.(estimated numbers are between 300.000 to 600.000)