Which is the strongest muslim country at

That's why I didnt give any importance to the nuke bombs assembled by Pak over the economy & fighting capability of some other countries.

Originally posted by Jagatai Khan Desimir, Ottoman Empire of 1900s was really weak and it was clear that she was collapsing, It would be abnormal if you couldn't have defeated her

Well, the same goes for the Byzantine Empire when the Ottomans conquered it. No excuses please. :D
    

Well first for pakistan army: I don't find them strong enough to be in the first 3 positions. Look the army quarrel in Afgan borders with the tribes. 348 dead pakistan soldiers in what... 2 months? Fighting rebels. This is not strong army. I believe Turkey has strong army. At least one of the biggest... second in NATO after USA. None knows about Iran. Only speculations...but according to my opinion Egypt has a very good organised and strong army. I think Egypt, Iran and Saudi & Turkey are the strongests. Saudi Arabia spends the year 16 bilion dollars for weapons!!!!

As far as Tsetsens is for laghing.

ps. The strongest navy marines (underneath water)in mediteranean are Greeks. Also the best trained tank divitions in the region are the Greek Black beres. For air force Turkish air force is good only for fighting Kurds. Because we all know what is happening in Aegean. Thats way Turkish air force come in agreement with Israelis for mutual air force training. But it is True that Turkey has really strong ground forces. They are well trained in mountains of Kurdistan.
They have evolved a lot since Cyprus.
    
    

Edited by perikles - 18-Sep-2006 at 06:35

Originally posted by perikles Well first for pakistan army: I don't find them strong enough to be in the first 3 positions. Look the army quarrel in Afgan borders with the tribes. 348 dead pakistan soldiers in what... 2 months? Fighting rebels. This is not strong army. I believe Turkey has strong army. At least one of the biggest... second in NATO after USA. None knows about Iran. Only speculations...but according to my opinion Egypt has a very good organised and strong army. I think Egypt, Iran and Saudi & Turkey are the strongests. Saudi Arabia spends the year 16 bilion dollars for weapons!!!! As far as Tsetsens is for laghing. ps. The strongest navy marines (underneath water)in mediteranean are Greeks. Also the best trained tank divitions in the region are the Greek Black beres. For air force Turkish air force is good only for fighting Kurds. Because we all know what is happening in Aegean. Thats way Turkish air force come in agreement with Israelis for mutual air force training. But it is True that Turkey has really strong ground forces. They are well trained in mountains of Kurdistan. They have evolved a lot since Cyprus.

Guess you are right Perikles. They had to deploy their entire availaible army to fight them & the baloochis. Why  the baloochis even claim that the paki army had used chemcal weapons to attack the ailing infirm balooch leader bugti hiding in a cave.

Also most of the power of the pak army comes from the numerous afghan tribes who are a powerfull & mean fighters. they are the most numerous in the pak army too. All this Afghans have more sympothy for thier motherland Afghanistan rather than Pak, but find themsemlves on the wrong side of the border due to the durand line.

In any eventuallity most Afghans would simply prefer Iran or Turkey or saudis for that matter, leaving the pak military virtually dissolved.

Originally posted by TeldeInduz Originally posted by malizai_ Based on the will to fight and a geography to support such a will. I would say.   For the top three:   Based on a fanatical sacrificial fighting absorbing all sorts of casualties. TURKS Based on a entrenched long term fighting, on the basis of an underlying deeprooted sense of hostility due to nationalistic pride IRANIANS Based on the above by using religion as the primary motive. PAKISTAN   Pakistani military isnt strong because of religion. It's just got good equipment and according to the Americans are amongst the best pilots in the world training wise. From Yahya Khan to Mush, they've all been pretty moderate, and it more or less pervades through the ranks, as the incident with the fighter pilots recently showed.

Originally posted by TeldeInduz Originally posted by Vivek Sharma Guess you are right Perikles. They had to deploy their entire availaible army to fight them & the baloochis. Why  the baloochis even claim that the paki army had used chemcal weapons to attack the ailing infirm balooch leader bugti hiding in a cave. Also most of the power of the pak army comes from the numerous afghan tribes who are a powerfull & mean fighters. they are the most numerous in the pak army too. All this Afghans have more sympothy for thier motherland Afghanistan rather than Pak, but find themsemlves on the wrong side of the border due to the durand line. In any eventuallity most Afghans would simply prefer Iran or Turkey or saudis for that matter, leaving the pak military virtually dissolved.   Nope, Pakistan Army was fully deployed in 1965 when it beat the Indian Army. Since then it's never been fully deployed.

Funny. Their are several pictures on the net of Indians standing guard outside Pak bases after conquering them.

Infact I know one person who was in the plattool that blasted its way through the Ichhogil canal & was waiting withing 5 Km of Lahore for oders from the Indian politicians to invasde & capture Lahore. They had destroyed all Paki defences in the line. He says they needed only 8 hours to capture the Assemblu in lahore because they was no one left to obstruct them. But the Indian politicians as always wanted to place peacekeeper game & called them back.

And who doesnt remember Khem karan, bangladesh to name a few, where the paks were utterly routed or the Bangladesh where 90000 pak soldiers were at the mercy of Indians.
 
Or the fact that the pak has still been unable to annexe Kashmir & has to resort to terrorism & wasting the lives of its Afghan population & using them.

You are tight dear, All wars were won by Pakistan. Only thing is that after winning the khemkaran war, the pakistani government, to recover its war expenses, sold hundreds of Patton tanks desttroyed by Indians  to Indians for a princely sum & the Indians put those tanks at one place and turned the battlefield ointo a tourism spots.

One of those Patton tanks (its remains) also stands at my college displayed as a monument of the bravery of Pak soldiers who won the Khemkaran battle.

Good points Sparten. I knew the judgement of Pak Army on the basis of Waziristan was daft, but I didn't realize how quite so much. It was more a guerilla war there from what i can tell anyhow, which are always a bit messy, unless you want to flatten the place of course.

Malazi, my generation especially is beginning to see a Pakistani identity, compleletly seperate from islam.

Originally posted by malizai_ Originally posted by TeldeInduz I dont really agree Malizai. Will to fight comes from being in the right as a famous Chinese military tactician once suggested. It's far more important than nationalism or bonding between people.   Iraqis feel they've been invaded. Afghanis the same. It's not religion that motivates them to fight. It's the presence of foreign troops on their soil. Iraqis are fighting a much stronger adversary now than the Iranians, but they're not giving up as easily.    Pakistan is a classical nationalistic scenario. The nationalism comes from the Indian threat. It's odd, but this threat has benefitted Pakistan quite a bit.  this is what binds the nation in my opinion - anti Indian nationalism, and if it goes, I would worry about the existence of Pakistan.   Most of what u say is not far from what i am theorizing.   Yes the Chinese man is right also, but the will to fight also comes from an existential threat werther perceived or actual (especially in case of external threat).