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Omar al Hashim
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Topic: Are Christians more tolerant than Muslims Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 23:57 |
There are individual examples of people being forced. However this is against Islamic Law. It is true that no population has ever been forced to convert, unfortunately not true for no-one.
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arch.buff
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Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 03:05 |
Well I do believe this is a question that should be taken "individually" and it solely depends on the specific person in question, but if we generalize it I believe christians and muslims differ on the subject of tolerance through each ones own core beliefs. While it is true that they are both abrahamic religions they distinctly differ in certain beliefs. Generally, of course
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edgewaters
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Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 05:03 |
Hmm ... I think Christians and Muslims are equally intolerant and authoritarian (or, feature a similar proportion of such individuals), however, Christians - much to their dismay, apparently - are constrained by a tradition of secularism in their cultures, whereas Muslims are not.
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gorgo
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Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 05:28 |
Nobody is tolerant.they are all the same sh*t!
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xi_tujue
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Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 07:31 |
It think toleranty has do more with culture and how do you say this by region. Religion is just a tool for them To justify what they do.
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Maziar
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Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 08:07 |
Omar i am awar of our history, and WIKI is not a very trustable source as you know. Avesta the Zoroastrian book was burned up by Arabs and only a little part of it could be saved. The intolerance of Arab worriors has converted us by sword. And zoroastrian never consider for Arabs for people of the book. Arabs call them Majoosi, which means fire idolizer.
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Maziar
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Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 08:09 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
It think toleranty has do more with culture and how do you say this by region. Religion is just a tool for them To justify what they do. |
Excellent thought. That's what i try to say.
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azimuth
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Posted: 14-Jun-2006 at 23:40 |
Originally posted by Maziar
Omar i am awar of our history, and WIKI is not a very trustable source as you know. Avesta the Zoroastrian book was burned up by Arabs and only a little part of it could be saved. The intolerance of Arab worriors has converted us by sword. And zoroastrian never consider for Arabs for people of the book. Arabs call them Majoosi, which means fire idolizer. |
there were millions of Zoroasterians in Iran centuries After the Arab conquest.
Iranian themselvs Destroyed the zoroasterians significant population in Iran.
sorry but you are not awar of why Iranian still muslims till today, and you are Ignorant about Zoroasterians History in Iran after the Arab left.
i already gave sources and links about Zoroasterians position in Iran, in that famouse thread which caused two of your friends get themselvs banned.
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 11:14 |
When I answered to the topic saying that none of them is more tolerant I was comparing the christian religion to the muslim religion.
If we compare western culture to middle-eastern culture, of course that western culture is by far more tolerant. But here we go out of topic, because todays western society cannot be clasified as christian. It is tolerant indeed, so tolerant that it became atheist. The religion implies some strict rules, and it cannot be tolerant on them. The religion will not accept homosexualism, the western culture does, the religion will never accept blasphemy, the western-culture does etc etc. So it is not a question of religious belonging, the point is how religious we are.
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Maziar
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 12:15 |
Originally posted by azimuth
Originally posted by Maziar
Omar i am awar of our history, and WIKI is not a very trustable source as you know. Avesta the Zoroastrian book was burned up by Arabs and only a little part of it could be saved. The intolerance of Arab worriors has converted us by sword. And zoroastrian never consider for Arabs for people of the book. Arabs call them Majoosi, which means fire idolizer. |
there were millions of Zoroasterians in Iran centuries After the Arab conquest.
Iranian themselvs Destroyed the zoroasterians significant population in Iran.
sorry but you are not awar of why Iranian still muslims till today, and you are Ignorant about Zoroasterians History in Iran after the Arab left.
i already gave sources and links about Zoroasterians position in Iran, in that famouse thread which caused two of your friends get themselvs banned. |
Those are your opinion my friend, only your opinion. And don't worry, i won't do anything which causes me to be banned.
Edited by Maziar - 15-Jun-2006 at 15:07
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edgewaters
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 12:41 |
Originally posted by Arbr Z
The religion will not accept homosexualism, the western culture does, the religion will never accept blasphemy, the western-culture does etc etc. So it is not a question of religious belonging, the point is how religious we are. |
Hmmm. Tolerance in the West is historically a product of secularism born of a Classical/Latin heritage, not differences between the Abrahamic religions (which are all intolerant by nature). Russia is historically Orthodox Christian and has always been very intolerant, even when nominally atheist; it lacks a Classical and Latin heritage. I think its mostly a feature of history, not choice of religion or even degree of religousness. I would imagine other parts of the world which at one time featured a pluralistic empire like Rome (perhaps in Asia?) probably have similar strains of tolerant ideals.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 13:41 |
At our times, Christians are more tolerant. Of course there will be some christian fanatics too, but I am sure we cannot compare their number with muslim ones.
Reason is not they are christian, but they respect democracy more.
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Giannis
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 14:02 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
At our times, Christians are more tolerant. Of course there will be some christian fanatics too, but I am sure we cannot compare their number with muslim ones.
Reason is not they are christian, but they respect democracy more.
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I believe that you are very close to the right answer. Tyrannic - despotic goverments have to give their people escape-goats, that's what's happening today.They use religion for their political purposes. In a democratic society religion fanatics are a very small minority, free-thinking doesn't allow extreme actions.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 19:26 |
Originally posted by Edgewaters
Hmmm. Tolerance in the West is historically a product of secularism
born of a Classical/Latin heritage, not differences between the
Abrahamic religions (which are all intolerant by nature). Russia is
historically Orthodox Christian and has always been very intolerant,
even when nominally atheist; it lacks a Classical and Latin heritage. I
think its mostly a feature of history, not choice of religion or even
degree of religousness. I would imagine other parts of the world which
at one time featured a pluralistic empire like Rome (perhaps in Asia?)
probably have similar strains of tolerant ideals. |
You forgot one critical thing: The middle east also has Classical and
Latin heritage. I also doubt that tolerance is due to Roman heritage.
Romans are famously intolerant. Romanizing peoples, plowing salt into
fields, genocide was accepted policy by the Romans.
I think tolerance in the west is largely a realisation that they couldn't keep killing each other anymore.
-The only way of settling disputes between Catholics and protestants was to make the government secular.
-The best way to protect your citizens from others is to protect others aswell.
-The best way of preventing rivallry between Lords and peasant
rerbellions was to establish a 'House of Lords' and a 'House of
Commons' (ie democracy)
If the west hadn't been so intolerant in the past, it wouldn't be so tolerant now.
Although how tolerant is the west actually now? I don't actually think
it is more tolerant than most other countries, only richer and thus
better able to show it.
Since we are talking about Christian and muslim tolerance, this may be applicable:
Originally posted by Matthew 11:34-39
34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
36 your enemies will be the members of your own household.' [a]
37
"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of
me; anyone who loves a son or daughter more than me is not worthy of
me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. |
I don't think I have taken that out of context. If a christian could provide some commentry on this part of the bible I'd much appreciate it.
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 15-Jun-2006 at 19:29
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Arbr Z
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 19:51 |
I could never imagine that St. Mathew himself originally posted in this forum
Anyway, both religions are restrictive, so, they are not tolerant. To gain a ticket to HEAVEN or to JENNETT is difficult, and apparently most of the westerners realized that it is not worthy trying at all. So they resigned from their religion and got into hedonism, liberalism etc (liberalism is very linked to hedonism, for those who study the history of the political thinking).
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Prej heshtjes...!
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azimuth
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 20:36 |
Originally posted by Maziar
Originally posted by azimuth
Originally posted by Maziar
Omar i am awar of our history, and WIKI is not a very trustable source as you know. Avesta the Zoroastrian book was burned up by Arabs and only a little part of it could be saved. The intolerance of Arab worriors has converted us by sword. And zoroastrian never consider for Arabs for people of the book. Arabs call them Majoosi, which means fire idolizer. |
there were millions of Zoroasterians in Iran centuries After the Arab conquest.
Iranian themselvs Destroyed the zoroasterians significant population in Iran.
sorry but you are not awar of why Iranian still muslims till today, and you are Ignorant about Zoroasterians History in Iran after the Arab left.
i already gave sources and links about Zoroasterians position in Iran, in that famouse thread which caused two of your friends get themselvs banned. |
Those are your opinion my friend, only your opinion. And don't worry, i won't do anything which causes me to be banned. |
if i provided sources and links how would that be "only" my opinion?
you are in denial .
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Maziar
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 20:43 |
You provide source you like them, you would dissmiss another sources you don't like as biase, that's why. I won't answer you again, unless you stay on topic.
Edited by Maziar - 15-Jun-2006 at 20:50
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azimuth
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 20:55 |
what other sources?
i did not see any sources talking about Zoroastrian population in Iran through history that is against the source i provided. or you are dreaming or cant handle facts?
the source i used which has approximate population size of Zoroastrians is a an Iranian site not an Arab one. it also has many nationalistic posts which people like you love.
Arab destroyed some libraries killed who rebelled but did not slaughter all the population.
Arabs did not reduce the population of zoroastrian from 5 million to 90,000
you did not provide any sources or anything, nothing but ignorant statements showing no population indication of any type.
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Maziar
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 20:56 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
At our times, Christians are more tolerant. Of course there will be some christian fanatics too, but I am sure we cannot compare their number with muslim ones.
Reason is not they are christian, but they respect democracy more. |
I agree, respect for Democracy and secularism makes people tolerant. Peiole in Muslim countries (mostly poor countries, not as well educated as europeans) havn't learned this respect, and that makes them intolerant.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 15-Jun-2006 at 21:47 |
Democracy does not make people tolerant. Quite the
opposite in my opinion. Democracy creates the fear that another group
could outnumber you and enforce their opinion on you. And gives them
the power to do so.
Examples:
Partition, why do you think Pakistan was created?
Election of Nazi party (not to beat around the bush)
Israel
Australia pre Whitlam
America pre civil rights (an argument for post too)
etc etc
An Imperialistic form of government is much more likely to be tolerant.
A single dictator that all ethinic groups can hate equally, while the
dictator not wishing to cause rebellion treats all ethnic groups
equally. (Alternatively the emperor could be a bigot)
Unfortunately, this was not true for the "tolerant" European Powers
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