About Goguri,no matter you believe or not~

Originally posted by demon Just think in my position I/eye, today is Gando,tomorrow the whole northern China. Japs did such thing not long long ago. From "The Korea I want" by Kim Gu The Korea I want I want our Korea to become the most beautiful country in the word The strongest country is not what I want. I was hurt by other's invasion, and thus I do not want invasions on others. Our strength enough for living is enough Our power enough for defense is enough ........ We Korean learned that from invasions, it hurts.  I do not think Korea would invade after all.  Jsut reclaim what was stolen which was supposed to be theirs and nothing else. =================== Though in history northern part of  the peninsula were prefectures of Han dynasty for sevarl hundreds years. Before Han, there was Old Choson.  After Han There was Puyo.  These two were Korean.  Followed By Koguri and Kori and Choson.

I knew what you  worried about. Korea is just a country influenced by China.Nothing else. No one beside me had the idea that to make  Korea another province of China. All that are just your illusion for you think if you  are such a big guy and abundant in culture,you of course will have a huge appetite. But you ignore one thing,Gubuk,culturally,Confucius never encouraged to do such things.

People here have personality of southerners and northerners 50%  respectively.

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Although this is a bit of a worry to me, It's not the point of my arguement.  China claims Koguryo( Koguri, Gaoguoli W/E) on the basis that it shared many culutural similarities to China.  I am asking you then with this logic why Korea, Japan, and Vietnam are not Considered Chinese nations.  I'm not asking you if China will invade Korea or if you think that I am Chinese.  I am asking you why this logic applies to Koguryo and not to the other three countries, when they all share much CHinese culture?  Basically I'm am trying to find a fault in this logic....Perhaps you can tell me why I am wrong.  That is what I am trying to say.

You are not answering my question....If china is claiming Koguryo on the basis of culture, why arn't the other listed societies also chinese states.  Also, what makes Koguryo different from Japan, Korea, and VIetnam.  They were all not Han when they started out and they adopted Chinese culture...What's the difference?  Is it because you claim that many people from Koguryo got assimilated into China?  DIdn't many Koreans and Vietnamese also get assimilated into China?  Basically I'm asking Why Koguryo, but why not Japan, Korea, and Vietnam.  You answerd "But as for Goguri,it's different.", which I don't think answers my question.

BTW Hannibal...Central China...What dialect do you speak?

Hey Hannibal,

    When Koguryo occupied that weasel piece of land in northeastern China -- I'd hardly call it "occupation of China."

Peace,

Michael

9-5-2004

Hey Hannibal,

    I'd call it "occupation of China" only if that weasel piece of land is all or most of China.  Otherwise, it's like saying "my car has been totalled" when it's just been scratched.

Peace,

Michael

9-6-2004

Hey Hannibal,

    I'm sorry, your English is difficult to understand.  Are you trying to say whether we should return the portion in Manchuria that used to be Korea back to Korea?  Of course not, that makes no sense.  The question that has been rehased over and over, the dead horse that's been revived and beaten to death again, is whether Koguryo is a part of the cultural heritage of China or Korea.  THAT'S that question, and since cultural heritage is always a matter of convention, and for many centuries we have accepted conventionally that Koguryo represents an era of Korean history, why not leave it at that?  It has nothing to do with whehter the land that used to be Koguryo belongs to whom -- it belongs to whoever it belongs to now, part China and part North Korea.

Peace,

Michael

9-6-2004

"Once again though, you define those people who are Chinese as anyone who as accepted "Chinese" culture.  You have to remember that this applies also to Koreans, Vietnamese, and Japanese...Could you clarify on this?  BTW Hannibal, what are you?  Are you Han, or are you something else?  Just curious "

 

No absolutely not, culture has nothing to do with it, its on the concept of legitimacy, the Jin and other of the minority regimes declared themselves son of heaven and claimed a successor of the other chinese dynasties, so they are chinese regimes, just like the fact that ji fa zi going to Chosun and rule it doesn't make Chosun chinese, its still chosun only with a "foreign" ruler. Same goes with Nan Yue and Gao Cang, both were created by Chinese regimes, but both adopted the local people's title and claimed legitimacy to local kingdom, thus they are their own kingdom not china regardless of what the ruler's origin is.

Same with the norman invaders of England, if you call them Norman then modern england would be half France and not England prior to Norman invasion and the British empire would be half France.

Originally posted by I/eye there you go hannibal. since Koguryo never claimed to success Chinese dynasties, it is not Chinese.

It's did a part of Chinese,no one can deny the fact. If you studied law,you will know that:claiming was never the only way to make a fact legitimate.

Ok,it's time to go now.

warhead was saying those that claim succession are Chinese dynasties, so I think he disagrees with Koguryo being Chinese.. i don't think he's ever posted his view on Koguryo being Korean or Chinese or both or neither in these threads..

Edited by I/eye

   "All other criteria failed, and you appealed to the least relevant of all: legitimacy.  Pray tell on what grounds can China legitimately claim Koguryo as part of its exclusive heritage?"

 

You can either ask me what my view is or pay attention to my posts.