Why Muslims are a dangerous people?!

Originally posted by opuslola I defy you to show us real examples of the acts you so proudly presented above!

Unlike you, I do not need to lie:

At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims. “Go home,” several shouted from the crowd. “Get out,” others shouted. In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called “The Way.” Both said they had come to protest the mosque. “I’m a Christian,” Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face. But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety. “I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here,” a frustrated Nassralla said afterward. The incident underscores how contentious — and, perhaps, how irrational — the debate over the mosque has become. A mosque, for instance, has been located since 1983 on West Broadway, about 12 blocks from Ground Zero. After the 9/11 attacks, the mosque’s imam, Feisal Abdul Rauf, began shaping plans to build an Islamic cultural center closer to Ground Zero as part of an attempt to build cultural ties between Islam and America. Called Cordoba House, the center would rise 13 stories and would include a 500-seat auditorium, a swimming pool and a mosque.

Here is actual video footage of a black man simply walking through the crowd when people start yelling at him and threatening him. They also assume that he is Muslim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbiS91Ayn6c

Notice how the crowd is all white (all conservative tea partiers). RACISTS RACISTS RACISTS.

Originally posted by opuslola And, I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut, that you whould scream to high heaven if the SS were given the right to build next to the Holocaust Museum? Or if any number of other such actions were taken by any hate group!

I would disapprove but I would not scream to high heaven. It is their right to do that if they wished, and I have no right to take away their freedom.

Hell, I dont even propose banning the KKK or any neo-Nazi group, they have a right to be the idiots that they are.

Originally posted by opuslola You cannot really support a Libertarian viewpoint everwhere!

I am not, nor have i ever claimed, to be a libertarian. Actually, I believe eaglecap is the only libertarian here (self proclaimed,) so I suggest you ask him these questions.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba Originally posted by eaglecap Let's not make this personal and I am not opposed to them building a mosque but not on ground zero. Why? Its their RIGHT and they bought the building. They can do whatever with it they want. Originally posted by eaglecap You still did not answer my question about the constitution. What was the question? With the forum being down I've forgotten. Originally posted by eaglecap  And what about the rebuilding of the Greek Orthodox Church, the city will not allow it. Does it seem fair they are rushing the Cordoba Initiative through but they will not allow the reconstruction of an already excising church? What the hell does the Orthodox Church have to do with the building of this mosque? I dont know why the city wont allow it, but they are allowing the construction of this community center, that should be the end of it. Originally posted by eaglecap I wonder who is paying off who and where is the funding for this mosque coming from. No offense but I gather, in your world, asking such questions could be bigoted. Yes, that is very bigoted. Unless you have evidence that they are getting funding from illegal sources, then you have no right to make this claim or even use it as an excuse to deny them their rights. Originally posted by eaglecap   Ground Zero is sacred ground and if the building of the so-called interfaith community and mosque is for the purpose of bringing people together then why can’t they locate elsewhere?   Build a mosque fine but not on ground zero. The mosque is NOT being built on ground zero, STOP saying that. Some Muslims oppose the building of the mosque on ground zero Originally posted by eaglecap A Patriotic Muslim’s Warning on Ground Zero Mosque http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/a-patriotic-muslims-warning-on-ground-zero-mosque/ see more articles on this Muslim site: http://www.aifdemocracy.org/ I dont care who opposes it, fact is, ITS THEIR RIGHT TO BUILD IT WHEREVER THEY WANT as long as they follow the rules and regulations, which they have.

You have failed to answer my questions or my points and all I see is pointless baloney.

The Greek Orthodox Church was preexisting yet the New York planning commission has done everything it can to halt its reconstruction. Yet, they are rushing this mosque through, who is paying who? Does this seem right to you?
You don't give a rip about the Christian Orthodox but yet you care alot about this triumphant mosque, which is highly symbolic to the Islamacist. They can relocate it and 70% of American are against this mosque on ground zero.

My point about posting those Muslim sites was that not all Muslims support it and they know the real intent for this mosque. Are they Islamophobes?

Are you a Muslim?- should be no shame in telling us! I really don't care what one's faith is as long as they believe in plurality and all religions are equal.

The term Kithman - do you know the definition of this word?

Here is a good debate about the Mosque I got from www.jihadwatch.org


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D37mB61mjxU&feature=player_embedded

TGS doesn't this concern you?

State Dept "aware" of Ground Zero Imam Rauf's Islamic supremacist remarks, but doesn't care

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/state-dept-aware-of-ground-zero-imam-raufs-islamic-supremacist-remarks-but-doesnt-care.html

Edited by eaglecap - 25-Aug-2010 at 23:07

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba We have a constitution, here is the first amendment of that constitution:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.<span></span>Deal with it, this is the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America.

I have read the First Amendment many times and I agree with it but it funny that you might not even believe in God. It protects the freedom of worship and the right to hold a religious view or no religion at all. It does not protect the right to build a church, synagogue or mosque in a certain zone of a city or town. Churches are denied permits often but in that case I doubt if you care. The fact you ignore the right of the Greek Church to be rebuilt speaks volumes of where you stand.

read this:
Zead Ramadan of Hamas-linked CAIR defames Spencer, inadvertently reveals where to find the truth about the Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero
www.jihadwatch.org
another

Investigative Project uncovers numerous questionable aspects of Ground Zero mega-mosque imam's organizations financing

http://www.investigativeproject.org/2134/the-tangled-web-of-the-gzm-imams-organizations

TGS is correct they do have the right to do so. As it is the right for any other religion or politcal group or company or organisation to build on that location. However there a city planning councils Im fairly sure also have the power to not alow such things to go ahead if its detrimental to the city etc etc. Are they not the check for common sense, that you laud so much? (common sense is overrated anyway)

One might have the right enshrined in law to do something bu not neccessarily the power or ability to carry it out. The British monarchy for example has numeorus rights, dictated by laws and custom, more than one might imagine. Doesnt mean it has the ability to carry out those rights if it should choose to do so.



On a side note Opusola in your reductio ad absurdum earlier you mentioned the Nazis. Goodwins Law has been fulfilled, congratulations you have lost the argument.

Originally posted by eaglecap I have read the First Amendment many times and I agree with it but it funny that you might not even believe in God.

So end of discussion.

Also, as a non-believe in god, I still defend peoples rights to worship if they so choose. You could learn a lesson or two from that.

Originally posted by eaglecap  It protects the freedom of worship and the right to hold a religious view or no religion at all. It does not protect the right to build a church, synagogue or mosque in a certain zone of a city or town.

It does protected the right to build a church or synagogue or mosque because the freedom of worship is guaranteed. It is up to the city to decide where such buildings can be built and if they are following the proper procedure. In the case of this community center, the city deemed it ok. SO END OF DISCUSSION.

Originally posted by eaglecap  Churches are denied permits often but in that case I doubt if you care. The fact you ignore the right of the Greek Church to be rebuilt speaks volumes of where you stand.

Again, irrelevant. This is a separate issue, take it up with the city if you have a problem and have your church built.

Originally posted by eaglecap read this: Zead Ramadan of Hamas-linked CAIR defames Spencer, inadvertently reveals where to find the truth about the Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero www.jihadwatch.org another Investigative Project uncovers numerous questionable aspects of Ground Zero mega-mosque imam's organizations financing http://www.investigativeproject.org/2134/the-tangled-web-of-the-gzm-imams-organizations

I'm not reading any of your propaganda.

THE CONSTITUTION STANDS, I find it funny how conservatives, who claim to be defenders of the constitution, are the same people who try to undermine it and change it.

Originally posted by opuslola TGS, just what is lacking within you that cannot see that "common sense" might well make this Islamic Group, not see that their determination to build on this spot and no other offers the antagonism of Christians and Jews, as well as Hindu's and other religious groups, who lost family members to a radical Islamic sect, see this building as not a "bridge" between these religions, but rather a "Wall!"

News flash, MUSLIMS DIED ON 9/11 TOO. But you dont care about that. The racism that we simply swept under the rug after the Civil Rights Act is reemerging. You are fighting a losing battle, just like in the 1860s, and just like in the 1960's.

Originally posted by opuslola But, absurd actions are being displayed by those whose intention of building a new mosque

What absurd actions? If you have no evidence, dont make the claim.

Originally posted by opuslola If indeed those wanting a new mosque in the area, had been willing to modify their position, or consider another piece of property, then most New Yorkers and Americans in general would have probably reacted in a less threatening manner!

But they wanted that piece of land. They purchased it legally. They followed all of the rules and regulations. ITS THEIR RIGHT, ITS THEIR PROPERTY, THEY CAN DO WITH IT WHAT THEY WANT.

End of discussion.



Edited by TheGreatSimba - 27-Aug-2010 at 12:28

Originally posted by eaglecap They can build the mosque but once again not on ground zero.

THEY ARE NOT BUILDING IT ON GROUND ZERO.

Originally posted by eaglecap Islam is a religion and not a race and it is made up of many races so how can opposing the mosque be racists?

Fair enough, does bigot suit your fancy?

Originally posted by eaglecap I believe you when you say you are an athiest.

Good, because I am one.

Originally posted by eaglecap Do you believe the US Constitution is a living document that can change with the times and culture or is it set in stone? Can it be reinterpreted?

YES, I BELIEVE THAT, BUT CONSERVATIVES DONT, it only seems you guys consider it a living document whenever it suits your fancy.

Really eaglecap we just can't agree to disagree with TGS! He is always the one sporting "hate speech", on this site, regularly calling you or me a "racist" or a "bigot!"

In certain circles he would be identified as nothing but a "TROLL!" It is always "his way or the highway!?" He has little or no concern with your opinion or mine or anyother opinion other than his own!

Wait, maybe you are right, maybe we should just ignore him and he might "go away?"

Nah!

Muslims are dangerous for the same reason Jews and Christians are danger.  All these people believe they are God's chosen people and can know the will of God by studying their holy books.  

Without question the title of this thread is inflamatory, and this is what leads to social problems and wars.  Does anyone want to argue this point?   This is a moral judgment, because to do something that causes a social problem and war, is immoral.

Christians are about the most dangerous people in the world, just look at what Germany did and what the KKK did.  These are Christian people, and no one has done worse things.   I know Christians want say those who claim to be Christians and do these terrible things are not really Christians.  Well, hello, the Muslims are saying the same thing. 

Democracy, when it is understood, is the best hope for the world.  It doesn't assume people can know God's will, but does assume they can get information and be reasonable.   Democracy also goes with these 3 rules:

We respect everyone because we are respectful people. 

We act with dignity and protect the dignity of others.

We act with integrity.

"Democracy is a way of life and social organization which above all others is sensitive to the dignity and worth of the individual human personality, affirming the fundamental moral and political equality of all men and recognizing no barriers of race, religion, or circumstance."  Congress on Education for Democracy, August 1939

A growing number of US citizens are becoming Muslims, and I strongly suggest we behave like people who understand what democracy is, because if we don't, the consequences can be really, really bad.  

balochii, I so like what you said.   I think one of the biggest problems is believing only people with religion have the correct concept of God and morals.  Of course from there they do agree about God and morals, but is there some way to separate their religious notions from politics?  Not even in the US have we done this very well.  I hate listening to the political debates that throw in religious points of view, as though humans can know God's will and should impose it on others. 

I think we need a better understanding of democracy and better clarification of what is private and what is public.  Paradoxically, we need tolerance of our differences, and some moral agreements.  I seriously think Atheism and materialism, and a failure use the ancient understanding of morals, are part of the problem.  The less moral we agreement we have, the more religious people think they need to step in a take in control, right?  

If I had the power, I would order all alcoholic beverages out of every Muslim country that out laws alcohol.  We are suppose to respect laws, and pushing our ways on others, in complete disrespect of them,  is bad manners.  Is it possible to act with concepts of good and bad manners, and avoid politics? 

Now I see a very important difference.  Do the powers that be, have the power to insert "some".  in the title of this thread.  Then we can proceed to talk about the potentially dangerous Black Muslims in the US, who are dangerous because of intense anger against Whites, because of past racial injustices.   Hopefully, having a Black president has disarmed these Muslims, because they most definitely can use the teachings of the Koran and come out violent and brutal, especially if our economy doesn't turn around and they do not see Blacks in high places. 

Hitler did not commit all acts of cruelty alone.  I have a lot to say about how Germany came to the terror of WWII, and it also applies to US today, but this is not the thread for this subject, except to say, Germany was Christian and Hitler did not do everything on his own. 

As the bible can be used to support stoning people and slavery, I am sure the Koran can be used to justify killing and monopolizing power.   This is a major problem coming from a religion with a Zeus like God who has favorites, and tells his favorites to rid the land of every man, woman and child who is not one of them.   Please, David worships a war God.  A large reason Germans accepted Christianity is the belief that the people who win wars are the ones with the strongest God.  War is good for religion and religion is good for war. 

No one calls on God to win wars more than the Christians in the US, and this is why the "over generalization" of Muslims as dangerous people is dangerously inflamatory, and should not be tolerated.    The threat of war is not one sided.  Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan attacked us, and we have attacked both these countries, and maintained war in them for several years.  The attack on Iraq was so unjustified, and I believe the New Century American Project, makes it very clear that long before 9/11 Bush and Cheney had planned the military domination of the mid east, and were hoping for an excuse to put the plan into action.   9/11 was a religiously motivated attack on the World Trade Center, and the military power that backs it up.  But the attack on Iraq was an imperialist war in the planning long before 9/11, and some could say justified 9/11.  Bush's rhetoric  aroused the Christian right and got him reelected.  That is he got religious support for his imperialist war.   

Is knowledge of the New Century American Project part of this thread?  Many years ago, Iran was our friend because they thought we were liberating them from British control, but then it became obvious we did so because of our own Imperialism.  Later, we helped Bin Laden when he was fighting the USSR, and once again our intentions become obvious.  For the US these wars are imperialism.  For the Muslims they are religious and defensive wars.  


Edited by Carol - 21-Sep-2010 at 02:20