Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

who are pomaks?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 10>
Author
perikles View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jul-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 373
  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: who are pomaks?
    Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 05:05
at 90% we can distinguish the Albanians and the Romanians. The Bulgars are tougher to be distinguished. The Turks if are coming for Asia minor are looks like Greek more or less. If the are living in eastern Turkey is very easy to be distinguished. The Serbs can be distinguuished from Greeks.
Samos national guard.

260 days left.
Back to Top
perikles View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jul-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 373
  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 05:09
Macedonians are easy to be distinguish. They are like the rest of Greeks. No mater if they live in Thesaloniki , Kavala or Chalkidiki, Drama, Florina,Kilkis or Edessa. For which territory ou refering?
And also the people living in Greek side of Albania(Southern Albania) are look like Greeks.
Samos national guard.

260 days left.
Back to Top
pomak35 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote pomak35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 06:38
according to me language is more rational criteria than physical appearence...But we have got both of them language and physical appearence and also many slavic traditions as like as "prestilka" and "sabor"
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 07:50

Arber I suppose as a Balkanian you know some local history. Why does the fact of not having a clear ethnic identity seem strange to you, haven't you ever heard about the slavic-speaking population in  today Fyrom in the early 20th century and later? I've heard from a Pomak answering to a question about his ethnicity to say that i'm neither bulgarian,nor greek nor turk and that his ethicity is islam and it depends on who give them the most. Pomaks are very tall,blond,blue-eyed,whiteskined and the majority of Greeks aren't.

As for the issue if we can distinguish a foreigner,yes i think that there are many differences between the physical appearences of the Balkanians. I think that we can distinguish an Albanian from miles away and every Greek here can confirm it. The majority of the Greeks and the majority of the Albanians are easily distinguishable, but there are persons that can be found in all Balkans. If you want we can make a topic to discuss it thoroughly.
Send me the photo in PMWink
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598
  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 12:33
Originally posted by Patrinos

Arber I suppose as a Balkanian you know some local history. Why does the fact of not having a clear ethnic identity seem strange to you, haven't you ever heard about the slavic-speaking population in  today Fyrom in the early 20th century and later? I've heard from a Pomak answering to a question about his ethnicity to say that i'm neither bulgarian,nor greek nor turk and that his ethicity is islam and it depends on who give them the most. Pomaks are very tall,blond,blue-eyed,whiteskined and the majority of Greeks aren't.

As for the issue if we can distinguish a foreigner,yes i think that there are many differences between the physical appearences of the Balkanians. I think that we can distinguish an Albanian from miles away and every Greek here can confirm it. The majority of the Greeks and the majority of the Albanians are easily distinguishable, but there are persons that can be found in all Balkans. If you want we can make a topic to discuss it thoroughly.
Send me the photo in PMWink
 
Patrinos, I saw your picture in the "post your picture thread", and I can guarantee that in Albania, in Serbia, in Bosnia, in Montenegro, in Kosova, in FYRoMacedonia, in Romania, in Bulgaria, in Spain, in Italy and perhaps even somewhere else I can find many people looking like you..I ll post the pic in a new thread, lets see how able you will be distinguishing the nationalities...
How can you distinguish an albanian?
How can you distinguish a greek?
 
Regarding the pomaks, they certainly have an ethnic culture, and this has nothing to do with their physical appearence. There are some elements of which we define ethnic culture, such as language, costumes, traditions, suits, music, and sometimes religion. They might not feel turkish, greek or bulgarian, but this doesnt mean that they have no ethnic identity pof their own. IMO they are muslim bulgarians, but at the end its on them to decide...
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:09

Arber because you asked i'll sayaccording to my opinion how do the two nations can be distinguished.

Of course I speak about the majority:
Greeks: The Greeks are in high percentage brown to dark brown haired, with a very high frequency of brown eyes. The blonds I think reach about 5% and they are not as blond as the Germans and Russians are. Their skin is not so light as our northern neighbors and not as dark as our south neighbors by sea in the south-east(middle-east,north africa). The main difference espesially with Albanians is that we have a majority of mediterranean types and alpine types(espesially in Epirus) and the dinaric type isn't missing among Greeks. Also Greeks have a higher percentage of curly hair.
Albanians: Albanians have a majority of dinaric types,with nordic,mediterranean and alpine types(south Albania) in a smaller percentage.Their skin is lighter than Greeks' and  they don't grow facial and body hair in big percentage as Greeks. Albanians are taller in average and they have a bigger percentage of blonds and blue-eyed individuals.
 
I think any Greek here can confirm what i said. I agree that ethnic identity cannot be based on physical appearence and anything about races and staff are only for historic interest.
Back to Top
Sirona View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 23-Sep-2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62
  Quote Sirona Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:28
Patrinos, I think you have a point, but don't you think people generally get quite light as you go north in Greece itself? I think, generally speaking, Macedonians (I mean like Thessaloniki) and Thracians are quite lighter compared to Peloponnesians, for example. 
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:47
First the majority of the Greeks in Macedonia have Minor Asian or Pontian origin.
You may be right that there can be found lighter people in Macedonia in bigger extent in comparison with the south(where I live) but in my opinion(as I've seen myself of course) the ligth percentage is very lower than our northern neighbors. A mixing in the north Greece is logical due to the history of the area but in a low extent.You can also add that in southern Greece the sunny days are about 280 per year.
 
 
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598
  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 13:59
Originally posted by Patrinos

First the majority of the Greeks in Macedonia have Minor Asian or Pontian origin.
You may be right that there can be found lighter people in Macedonia in bigger extent in comparison with the south(where I live) but in my opinion(as I've seen myself of course) the ligth percentage is very lower than our northern neighbors. A mixing in the north Greece is logical due to the history of the area but in a low extent.You can also add that in southern Greece the sunny days are about 280 per year.
 
 
 
Well, i dont think you are right (excuse me). I have visited Greece, fortunately, and I can tell that I didnt find a specific common appearence. They were all differing. Of course they could be distinguished in a wider sense, they are mediterranean, and they are a bit different from center-europeans, and slightly more from the northerners.
Did you see my picture in the Post your Pic (page 45 or 46)?
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 14:52
I didn't say that I took a measure and started measure all macedonian heads to find out their cephalic indexSmile.But i think that the blonds are in a very higher percentage in our northern neighbors(and in Pomaks) in contrast with us but i can say that Albanians have smaller percentage in blondism from Fyromians and Bulgarians(they are the sameBig smile).I think that Albanians Labs are very blond compared to the surrounding Tosks and Greeks,am I right?
Don't you agree with tthe "stereotypes" of the two nations? Where do you disagree? As I said Greeks are mainly a combination of meds and Alpines but blondism isn't totaly because of the slavs but it is known that there were blond and among ancient Greeks.
You can be in he ten % that we can not distinguish. I think that you have both dinaric and mediterranean elements with the second strongest. Do you descend from coastal Albania?


Edited by Patrinos - 28-Sep-2006 at 14:52
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598
  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2006 at 15:24
Originally posted by Patrinos

I didn't say that I took a measure and started measure all macedonian heads to find out their cephalic indexSmile.But i think that the blonds are in a very higher percentage in our northern neighbors(and in Pomaks) in contrast with us but i can say that Albanians have smaller percentage in blondism from Fyromians and Bulgarians(they are the sameBig smile).I think that Albanians Labs are very blond compared to the surrounding Tosks and Greeks,am I right?
Don't you agree with tthe "stereotypes" of the two nations? Where do you disagree? As I said Greeks are mainly a combination of meds and Alpines but blondism isn't totaly because of the slavs but it is known that there were blond and among ancient Greeks.
You can be in he ten % that we can not distinguish. I think that you have both dinaric and mediterranean elements with the second strongest. Do you descend from coastal Albania?
 
Man, I am originary from the region near the city of Berat, in southern Albania, or near the mount Tomor (ancient Tomaron). In my family you can find blonds and brunes(if I can use these terms). My father has green eyes, my gr.father blue eyes, my uncle brown eyes etc. I dont think that greeks, albanians, italians, southernslavians etc differ very much...anyway thats just an opinion.
But all this is off topic, lets focus on Pomaks, and in their identity...
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
perikles View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jul-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 373
  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 05:33
So you live in Southern Albania. That makes you Greek. According to your assumptions. Good mate.
But all this is off topic, lets focus on Pomaks, and in their identity...
Samos national guard.

260 days left.
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 05:56
Does anyone know when the name Pomak first used?
Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598
  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:45
Originally posted by perikles

So you live in Southern Albania. That makes you Greek. According to your assumptions. Good mate.
But all this is off topic, lets focus on Pomaks, and in their identity...
 
Man, how serious can you be? In another thread you wrote that greece has no claims on other countries, while albania & co claim everything from greece?
Please stick to the normal logic of every human, where did I assumpt myself to be a Greek????
And stop believing (wrongly) that southern albania is inhabitated only by greeks, we could say that there is a greek minority living there, but dont post gibberish...
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 11:59
Arber why you got so angry. Perikles just noticed that you don't ressemble the majority of the albanians we see and you are very mediterranean.
Back to Top
nikodemos View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 24-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 248
  Quote nikodemos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 13:47
Originally posted by Arbr Z

 
Regarding the pomaks, they certainly have an ethnic culture, and this has nothing to do with their physical appearence. There are some elements of which we define ethnic culture, such as language, costumes, traditions, suits, music, and sometimes religion. They might not feel turkish, greek or bulgarian, but this doesnt mean that they have no ethnic identity pof their own. IMO they are muslim bulgarians, but at the end its on them to decide...


It is better to say that their ancestors were probably muslim bulgarians.But now they have their own cultural identity,they are Pomaks,not muslim bulgarians.They are a unique ethnicity,different from the turks,the Greeks and the Bulgarians

Back to Top
Brainstorm View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 407
  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 13:55
Why is so hard to swallow that Pomaks are Pomaks?
Some people here tend to oversimplify everything .
It seems like the think that God came once down on Earth and created Nations. :Bulgarians,Turks,English,French etc...

Nations are living organisation, they are being formed ,reformed by common memories and common customs of their people, organized by the "nation's leaders and scholars" ,being born ,and die.

The ancestors of the Pomaks maye were Bulgarians-the ancestors of them may were Slav peasants,or ancient people of the Balcans...and it goes upper till an ancestor who walked on 4.Smile

Back to Top
Arbr Z View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 26-May-2006
Location: Albania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 598
  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 14:43
Originally posted by Patrinos

Arber why you got so angry. Perikles just noticed that you don't ressemble the majority of the albanians we see and you are very mediterranean.
 
Patrinos, I didnt get angry, and for me it is not an offence if somebody says that I look like a greek (actually I am saying that these people do not have any racial or physical differences or whatever). But believe me, I am not different from the albanians in Tirana, Gjirokastra, Korca, Vlora, Shkodra, Berati, Gjakova, Prizreni, or Shkupi. And its the same regarding those albanians which live in athens, they are not different (physically). The only difference that you probably found is that those emmigrants are not very wealthy, and they cannot wear the same, or frequent the same places. And they also have to work hard all day. But physically, culturaly etc, they are balcanic in every sense. Of course that a greek is different from an albanian, but not in the appearence, they differ in their ethnical culture, in some traditions, as well as in the language.
Prej heshtjes...!
Back to Top
GoldenBlood View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 06-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 130
  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:31
Greek race from famous C.S. Coon

http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/texts/coongreeks/

Kosova dhe Ilirida, pjese te Dardanise
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2006 at 17:57
GoldenBloodLOL why did you quote that link to tease me. From your nickname its obvious that you have some thing racist in mind. Did you bothered from the fact that the majority of the albanians differ from the majority of the Greeks?
Read your link carefully you missed the most important part: 3rd paragraph : "It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks"
I suppose if you have read that sentence you wouldn't send it.Clap
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.