New Middle East Borders !

As Azimuth suggested the main point of this map is to weaken the countries taken into consideration following the good old idea that dividing is ruling.

Also most of you should stop to call the American morrons or stupid because it is not kind... to your self (well to ourselves). If we are dominated by morrons what are we super morrons? Well, must be.

No this map is truly interesting. Not that much for what it proposes that is no doubt mainly diplomatical but for what it says of the power itself and the American power in particular.

The French, the English and all a bunch of people have already drawn a brant new Middle East out of the blue in 1918... uhm didn't work quite well. Ironically, I think the only two nations whose borders didn't move since are Iran and Irak.

The lesson of this is whenever you have a suprem power you overuse it until pretty much is against you and you're outnumbered. I'm conserned about the American government slowly declaring war to most of the nation on the globe, because, I my selfish opinion if I could pick which superpower I want I'd choose the US (just thinking of any other option is quite scary).

Finally, it is very interesting that in a period when most of the developped countries are slowly starting to abandon the idea of the nation state, the only answer the US military are able to provide to the trickyest area in the world is precisely the nation state.

Usually people are concerned about their army fighting the next war with the weaponnery of the previous one. This time the American are trying to fight their way through peace with politics outdated for 90 years.

M.

Originally posted by Corlanx The real solution, unfortunately for all the losers of history (kurds), is that the turkish state become a real democratic state, where the kurds has their place; that is their self-governing body, their language established, and their rights as members of a federal turkish state.

It seems you are clueless about Turkey's social composition.

Turkey is rather homogeneous.

I'm tired of mentioning this; but Istanbul has more Kurds than Diyarbakir.

So a federal state is impossible, never mind seperation.

And we had two Kurdish presidents with different ideologies.

Originally posted by xi_tujue The kurds in istabnbul an other big cities like it to much there they wont go back

these problems do not only affect the kurds but also the tutks living in that region the region is just underdevoleptnot just the kurds like ardahan and kars are any better and in that region don't live kurds an no not other minoreties,

scorpius a realy agree with you but you need to chance the aditued of teh kurds they need to trust the goverment, The ataturk dam was build for the "kurds" for irrigation of fields in the dry region the loclssay thats just another mean to control the waterflow so to control us,

but turkey needs to invest in the east,

Originally posted by mamikon Well if Turkey had opened its borders it wouldnt have had an underdeveloped east in the first place; so dont make it sound like people there are lazy, its entirely the government's fault...

 

I do not agree with you mamikon. Reducing the problem to a single point and blaming the government only for everything is just not good enough.

 

There are many variables in that region that needs to be touched.

 

The region needs private investments not only government. But I see a problem here, making an investment in that region is very risky. It is not attractive for an investor.

 

I bet insurance companies are not willing to offer attractive policies for the companies that want to invest there?

 

How about government offers low interest credits for companies that want to invest there and also forcing ( I don't know how ) insurance companies for offering reasonable deals for companies that are planning to establish businesses in that region.

 

And there is also the issue of terrorism fed by uneducated, unemployed people who has no hope and thus easy to deceive.

 

Are there enough High Schools?

How many Universities are in that region?

What is the quality of the education?

 

Is there a law in Turkey that forces its citizens to attend high school at least?

If yes, how is the law enforcement on this issue?

Is there an effective student loan system for those who cannot afford to get decent education?

 

The most dangerous people on Earth are the ones who have no dreams, and so no hope.

Edited by Scorpius - 29-Jul-2006 at 14:09

Originally posted by Scorpius Originally posted by mamikon Well if Turkey had opened its borders it wouldnt have had an underdeveloped east in the first place; so dont make it sound like people there are lazy, its entirely the government's fault...   I do not agree with you mamikon. Reducing the problem to a single point and blaming the government only for everything is just not good enough.   There are many variables in that region that needs to be touched.   The region needs private investments not only government. But I see a problem here, making an investment in that region is very risky. It is not attractive for an investor.   I bet insurance companies are not willing to offer attractive policies for the companies that want to invest there?   How about government offers low interest credits for companies that want to invest there and also forcing ( I don't know how ) insurance companies for offering reasonable deals for companies that are planning to establish businesses in that region.   And there is also the issue of terrorism fed by uneducated, unemployed people who has no hope and thus easy to deceive.   Are there enough High Schools? How many Universities are in that region? What is the quality of the education?   Is there a law in Turkey that forces its citizens to attend high school at least? If yes, how is the law enforcement on this issue? Is there an effective student loan system for those who cannot afford to get decent education?   The most dangerous people on Earth are the ones who have no dreams, and so no hope.

A sensitive and well-informed approach to subject.If you are not Turkish, I  congratulate you.


The undevelopment problem of the region is because of the feudal system over the people of that area.There are rich "aga"s(tribal leader) and strong tribes which can have millions of dollars wealth.Instead of destroying this feudal system and building a strong education system and a modern social life, our governors always got on well with the agas just before the elections to get the tribe's votes.

The only work on this subject was the reforms at Ataturk's rule period.

Ataturk have two projects named "The Rural Institues" and "The Land Reform" which would change all social and economic life in whole Turkish towns.The Rural Institues were like private schools educating the children of the region it in on lots of subjects from arts to farming.According to the Land Reform, the peasant working under the aga would get share from aga's land and the peasants would build their economic life.


But after Ataturk's death the projects were cancelled

Originally posted by Jagatai Khan   A sensitive and well-informed approach to subject.

 

Originally posted by Scorpius I do not agree with you mamikon. Reducing the problem to a single point and blaming the government only for everything is just not good enough

The government is elected to take care of its people...so everything, ranging from the lack of irrigation to the lack of foreign investment is the fault of the government.

If it disregards about half of its territory then there is a certain need for change...the government had 80 years to help those people, and they havent...it is only the government's fault, and no one else's...

what is Turkey doing with its 2nd largest Army in NATO anyway? I bet some of those millions of dollars could be used to build railroads, give incentives to farmers...instead of buying more and more F16s..I guess this is what happens when you have the army ruling...


Edited by mamikon - 29-Jul-2006 at 22:03

Originally posted by mamikon   The government is elected to take care of its people...so everything, ranging from the lack of irrigation to the lack of foreign investment is the fault of the government.

Originally posted by Corlanx   Mr. Tangriberdi, sending "back" people is not a very serious solution; from which point in history you start to look for a "forth", in order to have a "back"? By this very logic, you risk being send in central asia . . . "back". The real solution, unfortunately for all the losers of history (kurds), is that the turkish state become a real democratic state, where the kurds has their place; that is their self-governing body, their language established, and their rights as members of a federal turkish state. The same with israelis: they can't for ever keep territory that is havily populated by palestinian arabs. They have to give it back the very second arabs show they really want peace and not just distruction . . . But I wonder why the guy drawing this bizzare map has "created" a territory for the mecca and medina, "chopping" saudi arabia. May still be rational, but I fail to see the logic now . . .