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Military Leaders.

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Poll Question: Who is the greatest military leader of all-time?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [8.45%]
15 [21.13%]
8 [11.27%]
19 [26.76%]
2 [2.82%]
4 [5.63%]
4 [5.63%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
13 [18.31%]
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Winterhaze13 View Drop Down
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Military Leaders.
    Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 18:50
Who is the best military general in the second world war? Is it Monty, Rommel, Patton or Eisenhower?
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 18:52
Hannibal invaded Italy through the St. Bernard pass (Napoleon Followed), but unlike Napoleon, with elephants. Since he is an ancient ruler I'd expect that many don't know that much about him. He probably did the most with the least on this list. 

Edited by Winterhaze13
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 22:18

Originally posted by Winterhaze13

Who is the best military general in the second world war? Is it Monty, Rommel, Patton or Eisenhower?

Probably Erich von Manstein for his defeat of France and then his efforts to stimy the Red Army in Russia, or General Zhukov for his efforts at Moscow, Stalingrad, and then later on the way to Berlin itself.

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  Quote J.M.Finegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 00:39
I chose Alexander the Great due to the fact that he improvised most of the tactics he used... for example, during the siege of Tyre, he built a landbridge linking the old city with the new city over a natural moat over five hundred meters long.  When he marched south to Gaza the walls were too high for his siege engines, and thus, he ordered for the piling of sand and dirt to make the walls "lower".  What he did on the field was even more genius - his ability to forsee things made him one of the best military commanders in known history, and his ability to improvise quick battle maneuvers is what earned him his victories.
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  Quote J.M.Finegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 00:40
Originally posted by Winterhaze13

Hannibal invaded Italy through the St. Bernard pass (Napoleon Followed), but unlike Napoleon, with elephants. Since he is an ancient ruler I'd expect that many don't know that much about him. He probably did the most with the least on this list. 


Actually, Hannibal and the Second Punic War is the most recorded war in Ancient History (Livy, Plutarch, Polybius, Appian, etc, etc.)
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2004 at 13:09
Alexander is obviously the most overrated...
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 10:25

Originally posted by Temujin

Alexander is obviously the most overrated...

Please enlighten me, why is Alexander the Great overrated? On what grounds?

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 13:00
he did not ensure sucession, he only fought three battles of which he won all, that's the basis for calling him the best commander ever. Thomas Jackson also won three battles before he was killed, yet he is hardly mentioned in any best listes...besides, napoleon has won at least 10 battles before his first defeat, and he did defeat mroe than one empire and fought multiple empries at a time.s ame goes for Chinggis, he did also conquer various empires and won many batttles, even when his military career started rather abd for him, he lost quite a few battle in the campaigns to unify the Mongolian tribes. so all Alexander did was winnign three battles and conquering a signle emprie which fragmented shortly after his death and died early enough to never face defeat or any other setback.
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 13:21
Napoleon. Underestimated Britain and Russia, but otherwise a great leader.
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 16:25

Originally posted by dark_one

Napoleon. Underestimated Britain and Russia, but otherwise a great leader.

Napoleon was ultimately defeated not by the strength of his enemies but by his pride. He should never had invaded Russia, if he chose not to Napoleon would probably be first on his list. The fact that he was defeated hurts him in the eyes of history.

The only thing that prevented Britain from suffering the same fate as Prussia or Austria was British naval power and the Engliah channel. While, Russia was able to defeat Napoleon through a clever tactic by Alexander I, who abandoned Moscow in an attempt to force the French army to retreat.

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 16:53

Originally posted by Winterhaze13

The only thing that prevented Britain from suffering the same fate as Prussia or Austria was British naval power and the Engliah channel.

I know the French had a saying "let us be masters of the Channel for six hours, and we shall be masters of the world."

I always wonder what Europe and the world today would look like if a Napoleonic Empire had been created.

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 19:02
Originally posted by Genghis

Originally posted by Winterhaze13

The only thing that prevented Britain from suffering the same fate as Prussia or Austria was British naval power and the Engliah channel.

I know the French had a saying "let us be masters of the Channel for six hours, and we shall be masters of the world."

I always wonder what Europe and the world today would look like if a Napoleonic Empire had been created.

When asked about crossing the English Channel Napoleon remarked that "it is nothing but a ditch".

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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 11:38
the invasion of Russia was unenvitable, there's no reason to blame him for that, he had no other choice.
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  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 12:06
agree about Alexander possibly being overrated. A great explorer more than anything perhaps, though i do admire some maneuvers he made.
Greece and Persia were exhaused then he inherited a great army.
Cesaer who admired Alex and raised himself in his own writings(Gallic Wars,ect.) would still get more points from me considereing his military and political career.   
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 19:03

Originally posted by Temujin

the invasion of Russia was unenvitable, there's no reason to blame him for that, he had no other choice.

I'm not so sure about that, napoleon was the uncontested ruler of Europe. Historians can't decide on the reason for it, so how can we determine wether it was inevitable. I don't think Alexander's refusal to implement Napoleon's Continental System was the reason for war. Does anyone know other possible reasons?

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  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 19:07
I believe Hitler was a good general ( if you could call him that) even tho he was evil.
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  Quote J.M.Finegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 22:08
Originally posted by Temujin

he did not ensure sucession, he only fought three battles of which he won all, that's the basis for calling him the best commander ever. Thomas Jackson also won three battles before he was killed, yet he is hardly mentioned in any best listes...besides, napoleon has won at least 10 battles before his first defeat, and he did defeat mroe than one empire and fought multiple empries at a time.s ame goes for Chinggis, he did also conquer various empires and won many batttles, even when his military career started rather abd for him, he lost quite a few battle in the campaigns to unify the Mongolian tribes. so all Alexander did was winnign three battles and conquering a signle emprie which fragmented shortly after his death and died early enough to never face defeat or any other setback.


Battles of Alexander the Great:

Granicus River (victory)
Siege of Helicarnarsus (actually it might be a different city, but close enough) (victory)
Issus (victory)
Siege of Tyre (victory)
Siege of Gaza (victory)
Gaugamela (victory)
Battles to Susa (victories)
Battles to Persipolis (victories)  [these two weren't really pitched battles, just a lot of guerilla warfare]
Guerilla warfare in Afghanistan (a whole lot of improv. here) (victories)
Battles with the Scythians (victories)
The Siege of Pir-Sar (victory)
Jhellum (in India) (victory)
Further warfare in India on his naval expidition (victories)

That's way more than three battles...


--------

And his lack of successor has no effect on his abilities as a general.
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  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 23:38
what about Hydaspes, that is one of my favorites?
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  Quote J.M.Finegold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 23:41
Originally posted by Catt

what about Hydaspes, that is one of my favorites?


Same thing as the Jhellum - Robin Lane Fox presents it as Jhellum, others put the more popular Hydaspes - I'm not sure which is more accurate..I guess it would be the actual Indian name, which of those is the Indian name I'm not sure.
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2004 at 16:30

Originally posted by DuxPimpJuice



Battles of Alexander the Great:

Granicus River (victory)
Siege of Helicarnarsus (actually it might be a different city, but close enough) (victory)
Issus (victory)
Siege of Tyre (victory)
Siege of Gaza (victory)
Gaugamela (victory)
Battles to Susa (victories)
Battles to Persipolis (victories)  [these two weren't really pitched battles, just a lot of guerilla warfare]
Guerilla warfare in Afghanistan (a whole lot of improv. here) (victories)
Battles with the Scythians (victories)
The Siege of Pir-Sar (victory)
Jhellum (in India) (victory)
Further warfare in India on his naval expidition (victories)

That's way more than three battles...


--------

And his lack of successor has no effect on his abilities as a general.

 

there's Granicus, Gaugamela, Issos and the sieges of Halicarnassos, Tyre and Gaza, everything else in the Persian campaign were mere skirmishes and minor actions that do not count.

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