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Evolution????

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The Philosopher View Drop Down
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Evolution????
    Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 22:52
next, of course there are going to be many different types of human sculls, do to possible injureis, climate, problems in childberth, and things inherited from your parents that may not be right. also, the system of carbon dating is completely out of wack, things have been proven to be one age, then tested again another year, and been shown to be younger, or a few MILLION years older than the original test. a man once bearied his dog in his back yard, leaving him for 5 years, then dug part of him up and brought him to the scientific community. then they showed that it was a couple million years old. the fact is the carbon dating is almost completely irrelevent.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 06:25
Originally posted by The Philosopher

next, of course there are going to be many different types of human sculls, do to possible injureis, climate, problems in childberth, and things inherited from your parents that may not be right. also, the system of carbon dating is completely out of wack, things have been proven to be one age, then tested again another year, and been shown to be younger, or a few MILLION years older than the original test. a man once bearied his dog in his back yard, leaving him for 5 years, then dug part of him up and brought him to the scientific community. then they showed that it was a couple million years old. the fact is the carbon dating is almost completely irrelevent.
 
 
Uuumm,    You have to come up with some referencing, sources, to support that run. It's okay to play it fast and lose with some things, but when you make a statement like that you have to present something to support it.           [Besides Cremmo and Thompson,Confusedif you please] 


Edited by red clay - 21-Sep-2006 at 06:26
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 16:29
Cremmo and Thompson??
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 18:19
Carbon dating can be inaccurate if applied to inappropriate samples or applied in an incompetent manner.  It is reasonably accurate when handled correctly.  In other words, garbage in, garbage out.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 19:52

Red Clay, I really admire your patience in conversing with The Philosopher who is the author of the following post:

Originally posted by The Philosopher

well i have a question, is it possible that people with different color skin are a different species of human kind?? i mean, a cat, with a different color of fur, same with dogs, is usually a different species of the dogs. i wonder if perhaps this is true with us humans, we are only animals after all. I am NOT a racist, i'm just curios.
  

After I read that post, I knew that it's pointless talking with him.
 
He is one heck of a "philosopher", isn't he? Wink


Edited by flyingzone - 22-Sep-2006 at 19:55
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 00:06
well hey, first i'm only 15, second, i'm pretty smart for my age, and third, i do find that somewhat offensive, pls take that back, i feel that that was uncalled for. i kno when to admit when i do no have enough knowledge to compete with you 40 - 50 somthing history buffs, but i came here to find knowledge, not personal insults
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 01:25
Originally posted by The Philosopher

yes, bacteria, is its own species, whenever they find a species, they find it abruptly appearing in the fossil record. the oldest bat that they found has all the exact same parts that a bat does today, nothing has changed. next, Evolution does try to explain how the first single celles organism came to be. otherwise, you would be cancelling out everything from the big bang to the finding of the bacteria.
 
First of all, saying nothing has changed is not true, we only know very little.  Bat fossil records are poor, one reason being how light they are so they can fly, that doesn't stand up well to the elements like the fossils of large animals or the hard shells of many crustaceans. 
 
The whole "no intermediate species" argument is incredibly outdated.  Darwin admitted that when he wrote The Origin of the Species but new research has shown many intermediate species like archaeopteryx.  When creationists ask for "where's the intermediate species between an ant and a bear" its either incredibly ignorant or a loaded question.
 
Second, even if there is no "ancient bat" species we have found, bats emerged along with a lot of other mammals in the post Cretaceous extinction world and mammals were having a field day as the dinosaurs died off.  The only thing would definitively prove that evolution isn't true is if you found an organism that was much more complex than the other ones at that time, like if we found a fossil of a deer during the Cambrian period.
 
That brings me to another question, how do young Earth Creationists believe dinosaurs and all the other fossils of extinct creatures came about?
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 01:40
Something I've also thought is how the human body represents a refutation of intelligent design, given how unintelligent some of it is.
 
Why would an intelligent creator give us useless body parts like the appendix and the coccyx?  Why would an intelligent creator have the esophogus and trachea so close together and risk death from choking, an intelligent designer wouldn't intermingle the respiratory and GI system so much.  Same thing with the urination and reproductive systems on humans, which risk infection.  Only the slow process of microevolution could explain those, such as a random mutation forming the epiglottis from a throat muscle.  An overseeing creation of human anatomy at one moment doesn't speak well for the creator.
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  Quote Turk Nomad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 05:08
Evolution is only a marxist lie
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 08:42
Originally posted by Turk Nomad

Evolution is only a marxist lie
 
Oh?  And how might that be? ConfusedTongueEvil Smile  
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 17:20
Originally posted by Genghis

Originally posted by The Philosopher

yes, bacteria, is its own species, whenever they find a species, they find it abruptly appearing in the fossil record. the oldest bat that they found has all the exact same parts that a bat does today, nothing has changed. next, Evolution does try to explain how the first single celles organism came to be. otherwise, you would be cancelling out everything from the big bang to the finding of the bacteria.


First of all, saying nothing has changed is not true, we only know very little. Bat fossil records are poor, one reason being how light they are so they can fly, that doesn't stand up well to the elements like the fossils of large animals or the hard shells of many crustaceans.


The whole "no intermediate species" argument is incredibly outdated. Darwin admitted that when he wrote The Origin of the Species but new research has shown many intermediate species like archaeopteryx. When creationists ask for "where's the intermediate species between an ant and a bear" its either incredibly ignorant or a loaded question.


Second, even if there is no "ancient bat" species we have found, bats emerged along with a lot of other mammals in the post Cretaceous extinction world and mammals were having a field day as the dinosaurs died off. The only thing would definitively prove that evolution isn't true is if you found an organism that was much more complex than the other ones at that time, like if we found a fossil of a deer during the Cambrian period.


That brings me to another question, how do young Earth Creationists believe dinosaurs and all the other fossils of extinct creatures came about?


during the flood, which covered the earth, all of the dinosaurs execpt those on noahs arc were wiped out, along with alot of other animals, following that, during the flood, the Earths surface was rearanged, like filling a bottle with sand of different layers, and water, and shaking it. this sifted the dead dinosaurs, and the other animals, into different layers, some with more pressure than others, and the such. thus making the fossils, besides, that was 5000 years ago, by our calender, and as far as i know, that is what the belief is.     
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 17:24
Originally posted by Genghis

Something I've also thought is how the human body represents a refutation of intelligent design, given how unintelligent some of it is.

Why would an intelligent creator give us useless body parts like the appendix and the coccyx? Why would an intelligent creator have the esophogus and trachea so close together and risk death from choking, an intelligent designer wouldn't intermingle the respiratory and GI system so much. Same thing with the urination and reproductive systems on humans, which risk infection. Only the slow process of microevolution could explain those, such as a random mutation forming the epiglottis from a throat muscle. An overseeing creation of human anatomy at one moment doesn't speak well for the creator.


this is answered by the belief that before the fall of man, man never ate meat, because there was no desire to kill animals. thus, many believe that the appendix was used to somehow extract certain nutrients from only vegetables. second before the fall, there would have been no infection, or diseases, so there would have been no worry about infection in the reproductive areas. not only that but there would also have been no worry of choking. everything was perfect, working the way it was ment to be. i do not know what a coccyx is, so i do not have an answer for that at the moment.     
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 17:26
Originally posted by The Philosopher

yes, bacteria, is its own species, whenever they find a species, they find it abruptly appearing in the fossil record. the oldest bat that they found has all the exact same parts that a bat does today, nothing has changed. next, Evolution does try to explain how the first single celles organism came to be. otherwise, you would be cancelling out everything from the big bang to the finding of the bacteria.
 
The oldest bacterial fossils are close to 3.6 Billion years old, older fossils than that probably aren't going to be found. Also as one of the most primative forms of life, they represent the foundation of all life that follows. Life began quite early in the history of Earth and while the exact process of biogenesis is not understood entirely, there is little doubt that species evolve(change) over time as a reation to changes in the environment they live in.
 
 
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 17:28
so, we originally came from bacteria?
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 17:31
Originally posted by The Philosopher

so, we originally came from bacteria?
 
Yes, according to evolution, bacteria are the base lifeform that all other life evolved from.


Edited by DukeC - 23-Sep-2006 at 17:32
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 19:17
Originally posted by The Philosopher

well hey, first i'm only 15, second, i'm pretty smart for my age, and third, i do find that somewhat offensive, pls take that back, i feel that that was uncalled for. i kno when to admit when i do no have enough knowledge to compete with you 40 - 50 somthing history buffs, but i came here to find knowledge, not personal insults
 
I think I do have to apologize for being a little harsh on you but I won't "take back" anything I said as they were not insults. And just because you are 15 years old does not and will not exempt you from the harsh criticims that you will continue to receive here for some of the unfounded and ignorant statements you make. "If you can't stand the heat, then don't stay in the kitchen", so they say. If you want to be on the same par with the rest of us, do some basic research or, better still, do some independent thinking. And grow up faster.
 
Also, for your information, I am much younger than you think AND you are not the only 15-year-old here. Two of our moderators, Rider and Anujkhamar, are not that much older than you, so is SearchandDestroy, another long-term AE member. Emperor Barbarossa is just one year older than you. All these guys can teach us and show us things that we do not know. So age is not an excuse for some of the silly things you say here.
 


Edited by flyingzone - 23-Sep-2006 at 21:11
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  Quote The Philosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 22:09
Originally posted by DukeC

Originally posted by The Philosopher

so, we originally came from bacteria?


Yes, according to evolution, bacteria are the base lifeform that all other life evolved from.


but how could a single celled organism, such as bacteria, evolve into a many-celled organism, such as a human being?? and why would it need to??    
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Sep-2006 at 23:54
Originally posted by The Philosopher

Originally posted by DukeC

Originally posted by The Philosopher

so, we originally came from bacteria?
 
Yes, according to evolution, bacteria are the base lifeform that all other life evolved from.


but how could a single celled organism, such as bacteria, evolve into a many-celled organism, such as a human being?? and why would it need to??
 
The theory is single celled bacteria ingested other bacteria for food and these bacteria were not always digested. Over a great deal of time(several billion years) this led to the developement of eucaryote cells of which multi-cellular organisms are composed. The first multi-cellular organisms were very primitive and their decendants are still with. It's highly likely that all animals are decended from sponges, which are the first mulit-cellular animals to appear.
 
This would happen as a result of the physical and chemical and later biological conditions present.


Edited by DukeC - 23-Sep-2006 at 23:59
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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2006 at 13:10
And also during the evolution of blue-green algae which produced O2 which is harmful to anaerobic bacteria, the anaerobic bacteria began to clump together to reduce the diffusion of O2 into themselves, leading to the formation of some larger plant and animal cells.
 
I think trying to show Philosopher the scientific evidence for evolution is futile, he is obviously not going to accept what we say if hundreds of years of hard science isn't considered enough.  He'll choose to believe the literal interpretation of the Bible over anything we or the scientific community tell him.
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  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2006 at 14:30
Originally posted by Genghis

And also during the evolution of blue-green algae which produced O2 which is harmful to anaerobic bacteria, the anaerobic bacteria began to clump together to reduce the diffusion of O2 into themselves, leading to the formation of some larger plant and animal cells.
 
I think trying to show Philosopher the scientific evidence for evolution is futile, he is obviously not going to accept what we say if hundreds of years of hard science isn't considered enough.  He'll choose to believe the literal interpretation of the Bible over anything we or the scientific community tell him.
 
That would also create the perfect environment for the cooperative colonies of cells that would become early plants and animals to develope.
 
The transformation of one species into another is something that usually takes a long time to occure and wouldn't be observable to someone in their lifetime. I think this makes it difficult for many people to understand.
 
It takes a commitment of time and effort to become scientifically literate enough to understand something as complex as evolution.


Edited by DukeC - 24-Sep-2006 at 14:41
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