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vulkan02
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Topic: Japanese Samurai vs. French Knight Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 10:34 |
they look something like this
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Exarchus
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Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 14:21 |
1 on 1, the Samourai.
A group vs a group: the Chevalier.
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Vae victis!
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Degredado
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Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 14:43 |
Originally posted by Exarchus
1 on 1, the Samourai. |
Don't underestimate the fighting capability of the individual knight.
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vulkan02
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Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 11:15 |
look at all that armor... the knight would be considerable slower than samurai.
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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Exarchus
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Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 13:04 |
That would be true on foot fight. But on a horse, it doesn't matter much.
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aknc
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Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 12:11 |
exatcly,on mount the knight would take him
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baracuda
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Posted: 16-Jun-2005 at 12:57 |
Ehm, horse has to carry the weight of the knight and its armour, ps its a stallion.. which means slow speed and manouverability, where as the samuray can easily aproach the 'tank' of a knigh from his blind and vulnerable back. The knight's strenght is in the front, and frontal attack, charge and attack him from the back or the side near the back.. he cant do anything about it..
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I/eye
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Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 03:22 |
I don't think Samurai made much of a habit of going around the back...
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doorman
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Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 08:52 |
The knight will fall on the samurai for a 3 count a la wrestling winning the duel
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giani_82
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Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 09:29 |
I joined a similar discussion in another forum... Now the knights usually underwent a serious enough training, I still believe that the samurai trained more to perfect their skills with the bow. At the same time the usage of bow while riding is among the profficiencies of the japaneese elite warrior, and to stop a charging cavalry it's not necessary to aim at rider. In the japaneese army around the Middle Ages long yari (spears) were quite common and alongside naginata and nagamaki (under some conditions considered polearms) are devestating against mounted units. With the fact that a disciplined army of horse archers can indeed bring down a large amount of heavy cavalry (tested by the Mongols and Tatars) it's hard to say the knights will prevail while charging. Hard to believe as well that the samurai would be dumb enough to meet that charge.
"I don't think Samurai made much of a habit of going around the back..."
Disagree! The Art of War among many did teach some of the most ingenuine tacticians about finding a weak spot and using it. It's wrong to believe that the samurai always faced the opponent face-to-face. The battle at Sekigahara for once proves that this idealization of the samurai class is in fact denying some of the principles of warfare (the same people would insist that ninja are dressed in black, and yeilding a sword, run around slaughtering any enemy). Furthermore, a daimyo such as Takeda Shingen developped to a new stage the samurai cavalry, appearing out of nowhere, ambushing, making decoys, folding back then striking again - the way he defeated two of the finest leaders Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu.
Now taking a look at the armor - samurai armor did indeed stop to some extent the katana blow. So some hits below the elbows were a sign of sword mastery. Tachi is designed for slashing primarily and here the same principle is applied - searching for loose points. A knight brought down from a charging horse would be severly damaged. Loose points can be found in most of the European armor plates and it would require too heavy of an equipment to tighten these dangerous spots which would turn a knight on foot in practically useless on foot.
Some knights, as the templars, would show excessive zeal on the battlefield, many of them fine swordsmen, though their phylosophy is the opposite of the one of the East. This might result in an even more interesting clash, yet in my opinion the zeal and the heavy armor would result in a greater fatigue.
I guess we'll never know. So as much as this topic is amusing it's still highly hippothetical.
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I/eye
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Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 15:01 |
Originally posted by giani_82
"I don't think Samurai made much of a habit of going around the back..."
Disagree! The Art of War among many did teach some of the most ingenuine tacticians about finding a weak spot and using it. It's wrong to believe that the samurai always faced the opponent face-to-face. The battle at Sekigahara for once proves that this idealization of the samurai class is in fact denying some of the principles of warfare (the same people would insist that ninja are dressed in black, and yeilding a sword, run around slaughtering any enemy). Furthermore, a daimyo such as Takeda Shingen developped to a new stage the samurai cavalry, appearing out of nowhere, ambushing, making decoys, folding back then striking again - the way he defeated two of the finest leaders Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu.
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the question is one on one(says if two met).. the samurai went around the back in a one on one dual?
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giani_82
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Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 15:12 |
Sorry, my mistake! Well a good warrior will consider the option, a moral one will go face to face following the tradition.
Those who betrayed the memory of taiko, show that morale is sometimes neglected. So there will be such that fit in the first category.
And still if the battle starts face to face (the opponent is given the proper chance to defend himself), a feint that leaves the warrior behind the opponent's back is quite possible, at least this is my opinion based on my knowledge of martial arts (particularly, moving to the side, positioning a bit to the back of the opponent and attack of the back side of the knee - could be a low kick).
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"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising everytime we fall."
Confucius
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aknc
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Posted: 17-Jun-2005 at 15:12 |
whyy wouldn't he?I think he would
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"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
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Quetzalcoatl
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Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 23:08 |
the samurai will get pwn, if the knight is on horse (as I would expect) the samurai will be impaled, french knights train on that all the time. If on the ground, Japanese sword is better but if the knight fight with a shield, then the samurai will be defeated since the knight is usually bigger, more armoured and powerful.
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Arn de Gothia
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Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 05:47 |
I think you all underestimate the skills of a french knight (ofcourse
they all differ from each other). But a heavy armor isnt all that
crappy as many claims. As long as they dont fight in a swamp, the heavy
armored knight will probably run the samurai over.
The samurai armor is kinda crap and cant stop a blow from a
longsword... spanish made maybe? I think they made europes best swords
or something.
The samurai has no shield, no lance (maybe a spear).
Also, does the Samurai carry a simple katana or a no-dachi?
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Sultan
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Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 15:46 |
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Cywr
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Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 16:38 |
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Forgotten
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Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 16:41 |
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Decebal
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Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 23:29 |
Depends on the weather Seriously, can the french knight charge or not?
I actually think that they would be pretty equal in terms of skill. The European knights skills are often underestimated.
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Imperator Invictus
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Posted: 11-Jul-2005 at 23:41 |
On foot, I don't see how the Samurai can win without a lot of skill
advantage or attrition tactics, because Katana can't deal with knight
plate armor, nor their shields. Plate armor isn't that slow if you've
every seen someone move in it.
On horse, the Samurai also needs the skill advantage to be able to take down the horse with a bow or naginata.
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