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Toltec
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Topic: Genghis Khan worse than Hitler Posted: 15-Sep-2012 at 04:53 |
In my never ending campaign to besmirch the name of that angelic Mongol leader I just listened to this great podcast.
http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive
Dan Carling is my favourite historian, he makes it come alive with a passion and intesity devoid in other author, his account of the Eastern front in WWII is one the finest pieces of history produced in recent years.
Here he turns his wrath of modern revisionist historians who paint Genghis Khan as anything other than the one dimensional butcher he was.
Edited by Toltec - 15-Sep-2012 at 04:57
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Ruslan
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Posted: 17-Sep-2012 at 07:27 |
the difference is, Genghis Khan SUCCESSED and Hitler LOST
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heyamigos
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Posted: 20-Sep-2012 at 02:32 |
History cannot judge the 2 in the same manner. Jenghis Khan came from the steppe nomad culture where warfare and killing is the mode of life, whereas Hitler came from a high culture where life should have been valued. Jenghis Khan would not consciously know what he did was crime to humanity whereas Hitler should know
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Toltec
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Posted: 20-Sep-2012 at 07:44 |
You only grant two contexts, look at things in the context of Hitler's time and look at things in the context of Genghis's, but you forget there are three people in this situation, Genghis, Hitler and me, so there is a third context, look at things in the context of my time. In the context of my time Genghis was an animal.
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 20-Sep-2012 at 12:08 |
Yes, but to judge a historical person out of his on context and in the context of other ime and mores is a not very hsitoricl approach.
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Toltec
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Posted: 20-Sep-2012 at 13:55 |
As my attack is on modern views of him not ones from his time, I would suggest it is in context of the time.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 20-Sep-2012 at 19:36 |
Originally posted by heyamigos
History cannot judge the 2 in the same manner. Jenghis Khan came from the steppe nomad culture where warfare and killing is the mode of life, whereas Hitler came from a high culture where life should have been valued. Jenghis Khan would not consciously know what he did was crime to humanity whereas Hitler should know |
Germany was also an aggressive and warlike nation in the years leading up to WWII. They missed out when the older powers gobbled up Africa and Asia, so they sought to expand their living space at the expense of the Slavs
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Ruslan
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Posted: 21-Sep-2012 at 08:32 |
let me tell you:
if you kill 1 person you are an offender
if you kill 100 people you are a hero!
if you kill 10000 people you are a king!
if you kill 10000000 people you are Genghis Khan!
Edited by Ruslan - 21-Sep-2012 at 08:33
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Toltec
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Posted: 21-Sep-2012 at 15:44 |
Originally posted by Ruslan
let me tell you:
if you kill 1 person you are an offender
if you kill 100 people you are a hero!
if you kill 10000 people you are a king!
if you kill 10000000 people you are Genghis Khan!
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Stalin was 4 x as good as Genghis Khan then.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 21-Sep-2012 at 15:48 |
Originally posted by Toltec
Originally posted by Ruslan
let me tell you:
if you kill 1 person you are an offender
if you kill 100 people you are a hero!
if you kill 10000 people you are a king!
if you kill 10000000 people you are Genghis Khan!
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Stalin was 4 x as good as Genghis Khan then. |
If we use numbers alone...yup.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Alcebiades
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Posted: 21-Sep-2012 at 19:49 |
In terms of absolute deaths, the rank is:
1-) Chairman Mao - 60 million people 2-) Josef Stalin - 55 million people 3-) Adolf Hitler- 52 million people
Of course that Mao had a bigger base to work with, in terms of kill/total population Stalin wins(I think)
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Toltec
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Posted: 22-Sep-2012 at 00:06 |
The Hitler figure is the total war dead military and civilian, from genocide alone the figure would be lower. The Mao figure includes famine caused by incompetence rather than design, again not genocide. Your Stalin number too includes the Ukrainian famine, never intended.
Edited by Toltec - 22-Sep-2012 at 00:10
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Nick1986
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Posted: 30-Sep-2012 at 21:53 |
Originally posted by Alcebiades
In terms of absolute deaths, the rank is:
1-) Chairman Mao - 60 million people 2-) Josef Stalin - 55 million people 3-) Adolf Hitler- 52 million people
Of course that Mao had a bigger base to work with, in terms of kill/total population Stalin wins(I think) |
How many people is Genghis believed to have killed? Is it really as much as 10000000?
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Toltec
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Posted: 30-Sep-2012 at 22:58 |
The atlas of death tolls ranks him at 40 million.
http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm
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heyamigos
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Posted: 01-Oct-2012 at 06:10 |
Indirectly, he helped advanced Turkification of previously Indo-European (esp. Persian speaking regions). Places like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, northern parts of Afghanistan and Iran. His armies often killed off a big portion of the Persian speakers in those lands and later his Turkic nomad allies would be rewarded to resettle those lands.
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Nick1986
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Posted: 01-Oct-2012 at 21:33 |
Originally posted by Toltec
The atlas of death tolls ranks him at 40 million.
http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm
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Not that far behind Hitler and Stalin. It's even more remarkable given the pre-industrial medieval world Genghis lived in
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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
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Guests
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Posted: 04-Jan-2013 at 00:03 |
Okay um from being a Mongolian and maybe having a biased thought yes chinggis khan was barbaric and yes he did kill a lot of people but he used many different great tactics he was a war chief commander and just saying that he is as brutal as hitler is a little to upfront don't you think I'm not saying either if them were good yes they did have some bad sides and good maybe do a little bit more research before being that upfront
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Undra
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Posted: 15-Nov-2013 at 18:45 |
That is very true.
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Undra
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Undra
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Posted: 15-Nov-2013 at 18:50 |
Chinggis Khan was a nomadic leader who wanted to make Mongolia a glorious country. He had a nomadic life where killing was a kind of a normal way of conquering. But Hitler - he had a modern life where a life was valued - but he killed the innocent people. Hitler is infinitely vicious than Chinggis Khan. C.Khan killed the people who only wanted to fight against him. If they obeyed the simple task, they would have lived normally but with Mongolians owning the land.Although they both have weaknesses, Hitler is way more vicious and worse than C.Khan. Surely you guys know that. Think logically people. Be smart.
Edited by Undra - 15-Nov-2013 at 18:53
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Undra
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red clay
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Posted: 15-Nov-2013 at 23:44 |
And seeing as how there are 30 million direct descendants of his, he at least tried to balance it out.
In fact, some have wondered how he found the time to do the killing.
Edited by red clay - 15-Nov-2013 at 23:48
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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