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Styrbiorn
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Topic: Finding a patron saint to AE Posted: 22-Sep-2008 at 17:22 |
Originally posted by ulrich von hutten
There can be only one choice......
There is an euphemistic phrase in German.
To puke.....
You have to call the Saint Ulrich........ |
Hehe, "talk to Ullrik" is slang for puking here as well.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 22-Sep-2008 at 17:56 |
Ulrich von Hutten can be Poet Laureate.
For, in spite of his irritable vanity, his immoral life and habits, his odious diseases, his painful restlessness, Hutten had much in him that strong men could love. He passionately loved the truth, and was ever open to all good influences |
Sounds about right.
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Caoimhe
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Posted: 22-Sep-2008 at 21:44 |
Why do we need a fusty old patron saint when we have a daughter of a God, Zeus (one of the coolest), Clio to represent us?
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During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
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Akolouthos
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Posted: 22-Sep-2008 at 22:20 |
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
Originally posted by JanusRook
First off, aren't we a little ahead of ourselves Ponce? Secondly I don't believe that what John Paul II did in life was truly "saintly" he was a great statesman of the church but I don't know if that quite qualifies. Personally I'd rather see Dorothy Day and others like her reviewed for cannonization way before JP2. |
First off, I do not believe I ever get ahead of myself I am always where I need to be. Second I believe that he is saintly and so do millions of others who actually forced the Church to make his saint-hood process go even faster. I am sure there are other people in the forum who would agree as well. |
Well, I think we should stick with the Church before the Great Schism. John Paul II, even if he is eventually canonized, will only be considered a saint by the Catholic Church.
-Akolouthos
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Reginmund
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Posted: 22-Sep-2008 at 23:49 |
Originally posted by Akolouthos
Well, I think we should stick with the Church before the Great Schism. John Paul II, even if he is eventually canonized, will only be considered a saint by the Catholic Church.
-Akolouthos |
So? It's just for fun in any case, doesn't matter who considers who as what.
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Akolouthos
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 02:40 |
Originally posted by Reginmund
Originally posted by Akolouthos
Well, I think we should stick with the Church before the Great Schism. John Paul II, even if he is eventually canonized, will only be considered a saint by the Catholic Church.
-Akolouthos |
So? It's just for fun in any case, doesn't matter who considers who as what.
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Well, I should think it would be obvious that it would be kind of silly to decide upon a "patron saint" who isn't a saint. Although if we chose a second route and just used the term "patron", we could expand a bit and use secular thinkers as well, which might actually fit better with the forum.
-Akolouthos
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JanusRook
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 08:35 |
Well, I think we should stick with the Church before the Great
Schism. John Paul II, even if he is eventually canonized, will only be
considered a saint by the Catholic Church. |
Akolouthos, I'm surprised that you would allow such a minor issue to be brought up. After all we can pray for assistance by whomever we want (in fact that's how new saints are discovered) all that Sainthood is is a confirmation by the Church authority whether it is permissible to venerate that person or not. And it is my understanding that anything not forbidden by the church is permissible until the authority has decreed on it. Therefore I do not think it improper to disallow saints that came after the schism (on either end, be free to advocate an orthodox saint after 800, 1054 or 1204, or whenever you believe the schism actually occured.) I mean they are still considered a "saint" by a church authority. Also even though it wouldn't be improper to have a secular patron for All Empires, that isn't the idea behind the thread of AE having a patron saint. After all AE can have both as well as a Hindu deity, a Boddhisatva and a Voodoo spirit associated with it. This thread is for which saints should represent AE but does not exclude other patrons.
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 10:58 |
Originally posted by JanusRook
After all AE can have both as well as a Hindu deity, a Boddhisatva and a Voodoo spirit associated with it. This thread is for which saints should represent AE but does not exclude other patrons.
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Janus is right, though I see Ako's linguistic point. I think Count Belisarius would like me to point out that there are plenty of gods and godlings and anthropomorphisms to choose from on the Discworld too.
Meanwhile I'm reminded, as I frequently am, of Harry Turtledove's story in which the hero, watching crowds of people entering a church dedicated to St Andrew, concluded that if half California slid into the sea it wouldn't be San Andreas' fault.
Edited by gcle2003 - 23-Sep-2008 at 11:01
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Akolouthos
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 15:51 |
Originally posted by JanusRook
Well, I think we should stick with the Church before the Great Schism. John Paul II, even if he is eventually canonized, will only be considered a saint by the Catholic Church. |
Akolouthos, I'm surprised that you would allow such a minor issue to be brought up. After all we can pray for assistance by whomever we want (in fact that's how new saints are discovered) all that Sainthood is is a confirmation by the Church authority whether it is permissible to venerate that person or not. And it is my understanding that anything not forbidden by the church is permissible until the authority has decreed on it. Therefore I do not think it improper to disallow saints that came after the schism (on either end, be free to advocate an orthodox saint after 800, 1054 or 1204, or whenever you believe the schism actually occured.) I mean they are still considered a "saint" by a church authority.
Also even though it wouldn't be improper to have a secular patron for All Empires, that isn't the idea behind the thread of AE having a patron saint.
After all AE can have both as well as a Hindu deity, a Boddhisatva and a Voodoo spirit associated with it. This thread is for which saints should represent AE but does not exclude other patrons.
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Guys, for all I care you could name a one-legged chicken the patron saint of AE. I was simply pointing out that it would be silly to use a word that is not entirely applicable, the which you cannot dispute. As for a secular patron, I have no problem with that, having suggested it; I was just hoping, perhaps vainly, for consistency. My point was that John Paul II a) is not a recognized as a saint by any denomination, and b) is from a period wherein there are thousands of denominations that would not recognize him even if the Roman Catholic Church did. Do what you will; I have no desire to be drawn into a serious discussion about something that is supposed to be a bit of fun.
-Akolouthos
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hugoestr
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 18:09 |
Originally posted by Goban
You don't have to be catholic to celebrate St. Patrick. In fact most people here don't even know he was. You wear green and drink beer, and it has something to do with Ireland... Woo Hoo!!
Have a pint and say "grandma Haggit."
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Good reasoning.
I vote for St. Patrick.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 18:37 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
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I think Count Belisarius would like me to point out that there are plenty of gods and godlings and anthropomorphisms to choose from on the Discworld too.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think death would be an ideal patron for some reason nor would Anoia godess of things that get stuck in drawers be ideal, I vote Catherine and ol' George
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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ulrich von hutten
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 19:26 |
I'll vote for St.Ulrich. May be i announced it already.
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JanusRook
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 19:59 |
Because of the controversy with the patron saint and due to the fact that those at AE come from a diverse background I now suggest Saint Poet of the Miraculous Eyeball.
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 23:44 |
I liked the proposal of St Isidorus of Sevillia as "VP" (vice patron) although I am not sure he is recognized by the Orthodox church. I'm against St George because that's the patron of Albion and I refuse to have anything to do with bloody England and because it would be undermining the trials of some to make AE a bit less war-oriented.
I support St Ulrich as the patron of the tavern forum.
Finally Caoimhe should understand that: 1. Pissing off Clio won't cost us anything (we all spend 100 in the Tartarus before coming back to Earth anyway) while St Catherine could make us pay dearly our lack of faith in her (not going to Hell is my definition of a good incentive).
2. What did Clio do? On the other hand Caty got nearly cruched by a wheel which is my definition of coolness.
3. Caty has often been regarded as a Chritsianised version of a famous female philosopher of the 2nd century BC so she somehow embodies both pre- and post Jesus times.
4. Caty broke the glass ceiling by herself while Clio is merely the daughter of the boss.
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I am a free donkey!
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red clay
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 11:49 |
Meanwhile I'm reminded, as I frequently am, of Harry Turtledove's story in which the hero, watching crowds of people entering a church dedicated to St Andrew, concluded that if half California slid into the sea it wouldn't be San Andreas' fault.
Meanwhile I'm reminded, as I frequently am, of Harry Turtledove's story in which the hero, watching crowds of people entering a church dedicated to St Andrew, concluded that if half California slid into the sea it wouldn't be San Andreas' fault.
Graham, that was awful.
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 13:32 |
The only time I was sorry that a Turkish fascist failed to assasinate his target was when Mehmet Ali Agca shot this son of a bitch. He was a throughly evil and extremely lucky bastard, would make a fitting Saint for the Roman Catholic Church, but not for a semi-civilised place such as AE.
Allegedly, after he recovered he visited Agca in prison and told him: 'When I was shot I thought I was going to die. I was surprised to have survived. God have helped me.' To which Agca replied: 'Actually, I was surprised as well. Normally when I hit someone they die'. Like the young people say, LOL.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 14:22 |
Originally posted by red clay
Meanwhile I'm reminded, as I frequently am, of Harry Turtledove's story in which the hero, watching crowds of people entering a church dedicated to St Andrew, concluded that if half California slid into the sea it wouldn't be San Andreas' fault.
Graham, that was awful. |
I don't like Turtledove's alternative histories usually, but The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump I reread regularly.
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Darius of Parsa
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 15:37 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
The only time I was sorry that a Turkish fascist failed to assasinate his target was when Mehmet Ali Agca shot this son of a bitch. He was a throughly evil and extremely lucky bastard, would make a fitting Saint for the Roman Catholic Church, but not for a semi-civilised place such as AE.
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What is the officer problem?
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Cryptic
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 16:02 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
The only time I was sorry that a Turkish fascist failed to assasinate his target was when Mehmet Ali Agca shot this son of a bitch. |
Yawn..... Years from now, Pope John Paul's memory and Catholicism will still exist.
Meanwhile, Marxism, Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism and all the other failed leftist ideologies will fade from civilization like a bad dream. One belief is based on eternal truth, the other is well.... very temporary.
No amount of ranting is going to change that equation.
Edited by Cryptic - 24-Sep-2008 at 16:03
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hugoestr
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Posted: 24-Sep-2008 at 16:44 |
Pope John Paul II should be the patron saint of marketing. He turned himself into the face of Catholicism the same way that Dave from Wendy's burgers became the face of his franchise. J.P. II was catholicism, and even big anti-Catholic bigots, such as my mother in law, liked him.
He understood that canonizing people are great publicity stunts, so he canonized people galore.
His trips were great media events. And he even had super-hero quality stuff, having his own pope mobile! I bet he also had a utility belt.
Did he have some defects? Sure, but who doesn't? All in all, he was one of the best popes, and a mighty nice religious leader.
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