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eaglecap
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Topic: Do Black panthers still exist above Mexico? Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 01:10 |
On Monster Quest - History Channel
They had a show about black panthers in the USA, mostly east coast. The black panther is simply a black jaguar but the only place I know they still exist is along the SW border from Arizona to parts of S. Texas. It would be neat if they still roamed parts of the low 48. I have hiked in the Gila Wilderness area of New Mexico state and found out they had a small population of jaguars that cross the border from Mexico.
For me, this always increases the thrill of being out in the wild and I usually only bring pepper spray and a big knife but that is mainly for the purpose of cutting a splint if I should injure myself and fishing.
Do they still exist or are people just seeing cougars or large black cats?
We only have cougars here and the woods around here are full of them.
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Knights
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Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 01:20 |
I'm going to say yes, simply because while there are still Jaguars, there is still the chance of getting melanistic Jaguars (the Black Panther). In saying this however, desert Jaguars are rarely if ever found being melanistic because melanism arises more often in damper and darker environments, like the Rainforest. If I hear of one, I'll be sure to let you know.
- Knights -
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Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 01:54 |
It is a possibility, though i think if it is an actuallity, then their numbers would actually be quite small. I will share a few thoughts with you about this...
I remember a couple of stories my wife told me when we were first married over 17 years ago. The time period of the story, is around the late 30's - early 40's time frame. Basically, her grandparents would on occasions, see them at a distance from their house, located on the Texas plains. Of course, i was a bit skeptical about it, after considering several variables, which left too many unanswered questions in my mind, too believe it. Seeing that the scientific consensus of that time was that any chance of a black panther population in the surrounding region, would be practically nil', i did feel a certain amount of justification at dismissing what she was telling me at first, based on the lack of that knowledge not being widely reported at that time. And yet... i didn't tell her about any of my doubts, you know... seeing that she and i were just married and all, which certainly would have had private reprecussions on me that i wasn't yet in the position too deal with, if you are catching my meaning here?
However, the other story that really raised my skepticism into the realms of curiosity and it went something like this, and this is the short version reduced to a single sentence: They would on the much more rare occasions, here the roars in the distance! And only a very few big cats can actually roar. Bare in mind, this is also a very small farming community on the Texas plains, located over sixty miles from the nearest city to it's northeast!
So again it is quite possible!
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red clay
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Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 03:43 |
There are frequent sightings of "large black cats", larger than the Florida Panther, in the Panhandle of Florida. Our Son inlaw is with the FHP and has seen tracks he could identify as a cat, but larger than anything he knew of.
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Knights
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Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 09:22 |
Originally posted by Panther
They would on the much more rare occasions, here the roars in the distance! And only a very few big cats can actually roar |
Well technically, only big cats can roar - it's part of what makes them big cats isn't it? Tigers, Lions, Leopards and Jaguars of course being the only four that can make a proper* "roar" sound. So, if this roaring they could hear was true, there is no chance it is Cougar - it must have been Jaguars. Interesting... *I don't like to be picky, but Snow Leopards can "half-roar" because their hyoid bone isn't fully developed like a true "Pantherine" Big Cat. Regards, - Knights -
Edited by Knights - 22-Jan-2008 at 09:24
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Posted: 23-Jan-2008 at 02:43 |
Originally posted by Knights
Originally posted by Panther
They would on the much more rare occasions, here the roars in the distance! And only a very few big cats can actually roar |
Well technically, only big cats can roar - it's part of what makes them big cats isn't it? Tigers, Lions, Leopards and Jaguars of course being the only four that can make a proper* "roar" sound. So, if this roaring they could hear was true, there is no chance it is Cougar - it must have been Jaguars. Interesting...
*I don't like to be picky, but Snow Leopards can "half-roar" because their hyoid bone isn't fully developed like a true "Pantherine" Big Cat.
Regards,
- Knights -
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I was rather pressed for time when i was writng that post. I would like to sincerely thank you for clarifying that most important piece of information for me Knights, which i left out.
They don't neccessarily need to be able too roar too be considered a big cat, though they aren't true Pantherines, as we understand them. As far as i am concerned, and with me not being in my scientific mode. If a cat is big enough to have me for breakfast, lunch and or dinner, as well as using my bones too clean t's teeth with, and... needs to be kept in some sort of confinemnet for the general public to safely see; Then yes, imho... that makes them a dangerous enough threat for a big cat, that we would have to be continuously very cautious around.
The Cougar, Puma, mountain lion and the Florida Panther as other names i believe they go by, i believe can still be found as far the US is concerned, from the wild of the Texas Big Bend park reserve, all the way up into the Colorado mountains and in certain parts of Florida of course! I do believe the Florida Panthers are still on the protected species list, though i am not certain?
I don't ever think you are being picky. The Snow Leopard is one of the big cats i know the least about . I would like to thank you again. This time for sharing that bit of your knowledge with me! This great stuff!
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eaglecap
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Posted: 23-Jan-2008 at 19:25 |
From what I have read they can weigh from 200-300 pounds whereas a mountain lion wieghs from 100- at most around 200. We have plenty of Mountains lions here but the jaguar never made it to the Pacific NW. Unless there have been any sightings of those black panther, I heard about this on coast to coast am radio show but remain skeptical.
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Knights
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Posted: 26-Jan-2008 at 02:32 |
Originally posted by Panther
I was rather pressed for time when i was writng that post. I would like to sincerely thank you for clarifying that most important piece of information for me Knights, which i left out.
They don't neccessarily need to be able too roar too be considered a big cat, though they aren't true Pantherines, as we understand them. As far as i am concerned, and with me not being in my scientific mode. If a cat is big enough to have me for breakfast, lunch and or dinner, as well as using my bones too clean t's teeth with, and... needs to be kept in some sort of confinemnet for the general public to safely see; Then yes, imho... that makes them a dangerous enough threat for a big cat, that we would have to be continuously very cautious around.
The Cougar, Puma, mountain lion and the Florida Panther as other names i believe they go by, i believe can still be found as far the US is concerned, from the wild of the Texas Big Bend park reserve, all the way up into the Colorado mountains and in certain parts of Florida of course! I do believe the Florida Panthers are still on the protected species list, though i am not certain?
I don't ever think you are being picky. The Snow Leopard is one of the big cats i know the least about . I would like to thank you again. This time for sharing that bit of your knowledge with me! This great stuff! |
I've had many a conversation about Feline classification, and how they are seen systematically as opposed to the common names. It's really just arbitrary, so neither of us are wrong. Yeh Cougars have a huge range still, stretching from Southern Canada all the way down to Patagonia (including Florida). And yes, the Florida Panther is highly endangered, I think classified as "endangered" or even "critically endangered" (as a subspecies) by the IUCN Red List. The Cougar as a species is classified as "Lower Risk", being one of the most abundant Felines. In case you didn't already know, Snow Leopards are Knights's favourite animal - Knights -
Edited by Knights - 26-Jan-2008 at 02:32
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Panther
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Posted: 26-Jan-2008 at 19:26 |
Originally posted by Knights
I've had many a conversation about Feline classification, and how they are seen systematically as opposed to the common names. It's really just arbitrary, so neither of us are wrong.
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I agree, it's not really a big deal.
Yeh Cougars have a huge range still, stretching from Southern Canada all the way down to Patagonia (including Florida). And yes, the Florida Panther is highly endangered, I think classified as "endangered" or even "critically endangered" (as a subspecies) by the IUCN Red List. The Cougar as a species is classified as "Lower Risk", being one of the most abundant Felines.
In case you didn't already know, Snow Leopards are Knights's favourite animal
- Knights -
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I was wrong about their range. I wasn't even aware the range extended up towards Canada. I have an old book on Big Cats dating back to the late eighties that i had based that thought on. My bad!
Snow leopards are beautiful animals and quite mysterious; I can certainly see why they are your favorite!
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Knights
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Posted: 27-Jan-2008 at 00:59 |
Well, most maps show slightly different ranges, so it's nothing big. I've come across rather different distribution maps for the Cougar though. Some limit it to Central and West US, while others indicate over the whole of the US. Some also stretch further North than others. For instance: Source: Hogle Zoo website Source: National Wildlife Federation Source: Sask Schools Personally, when I'm unsure of an animal's distribution I use the encyclopedia "ANIMAL" by Dorling Kindersley - it's pretty reliable when it comes to most things. Do you think the reason that 80's Big Cat book of yours didn't show its range as extensively because the Cougar has since expanded its range? Regards, - Knights -
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Posted: 03-Feb-2008 at 10:05 |
Originally posted by Knights
Do you think the reason that 80's Big Cat book of yours didn't show its range as extensively because the Cougar has since expanded its range?
Regards,
- Knights -
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I don't know if it is that? But i suspect that the knowledge on their habitat and range has grown quite a bit since then!
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Ponce de Leon
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Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 20:12 |
I know this is totally off topic and i am sorry but i just have to put this out there. Everytime i see this subject I think its about the Black Panthers of the 1960's. Once again, i am sorry I just had to put it out there
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red clay
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Posted: 04-Feb-2008 at 21:29 |
Knights wrote-
And yes, the Florida Panther is highly endangered, I think classified as "endangered" or even "critically endangered".
True, but don't believe the official count of less than 300. The good news is that there are as many as 1000 still in the wild. Also, they have expanded their range into southwestern
Georgia as well as Alabama.
This comes from local wildlife groups as well as police and Hunting clubs.
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Knights
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Posted: 05-Feb-2008 at 09:13 |
I'm glad to hear of their comeback - thanks Red.
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eaglecap
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Posted: 15-Feb-2008 at 21:54 |
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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