Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
southafrican
Immortal Guard
Joined: 07-Sep-2007
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Topic: Was Hannibal Black Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 02:49 |
I was just wondering. It would be interesting if he was black.
|
|
Leonidas
Tsar
Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 03:20 |
Interesting for who? he was a great Carthaginian general, no matter what any revisionist fool, if they be either a Nazi or afro-centrist, wants to believe.
southafrican, take a look at the other threads that try to mix race with history and see what happens, before starting another one. Nor is it good enough to start a whole new thread so you can ask what really is a silly trivial question. If you so want to ask such things at least go to the question and answers section and reserve the dedicated forums for proper discussion about history.
If you want to continue creating such threads, we will regard this as spam and you will be warned.
|
|
History
Immortal Guard
Joined: 07-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 12:47 |
Leonidas is right. One shouldn't waste time on race, though this is somewhat important. The study of different cultures should be unbiased and should be done for its own sake. To focus on Hannibal's racial make-up is shallow and materialistic. It is a dead end approach to evaluating a figure in history.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 15:31 |
How many times we are going to answer the same? Hannibal was Lebanese....
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 18:15 |
Originally posted by Leonidas
Interesting for who? he was a great Carthaginian general, no matter what any revisionist fool, if they be either a Nazi or afro-centrist, wants to believe.
|
I understand that... but are they any evidence that he is Black? I never thought about it until it was mentioned here... I am just curious. I have nothing against African race. I heard of stupid African theories like Japanese and Chinese being Black and all... but Hannibal could be black. It's not completely illogical. He was born in North Africa, right? Or was he born in Spain?
Edited by pekau - 07-Sep-2007 at 18:17
|
Join us.
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 18:22 |
Originally posted by pekau
...
...I heard of stupid African theories like Japanese and Chinese being Black and all... but Hannibal could be black. It's not completely illogical. He was born in North Africa, right? Or was he born in Spain? |
None of the above
It is illogical. Carthago was a state build and controlled by Phoenician descendents, not even Berbers. Beside, it is recorded in history that Hannibal was Lebanese (remember, Phoenicians...)
Pinguin
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 18:58 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Originally posted by pekau
...
...I heard of stupid African theories like Japanese and Chinese being Black and all... but Hannibal could be black. It's not completely illogical. He was born in North Africa, right? Or was he born in Spain? |
None of the above
It is illogical. Carthago was a state build and controlled by Phoenician descendents, not even Berbers. Beside, it is recorded in history that Hannibal was Lebanese (remember, Phoenicians...)
Pinguin
|
Lebanese? Wow, I did not see that coming.
So when you say state build... so are you saying that all lands belonging to Carthago only consisted Lebanese? But wait... Carthago all began by rich merchants making alliance around Mediteranean Sea... how could there be just Lebanese then?
|
Join us.
|
|
jdalton
Pretorian
Joined: 02-Aug-2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 166
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 20:41 |
Originally posted by pinguin
It is illogical. Carthago was a state build and controlled by Phoenician descendents, not even Berbers. Beside, it is recorded in history that Hannibal was Lebanese (remember, Phoenicians...) |
Not even Berbers? Are you sure? I find it very difficult to believe that in the 700 years since the Phoenecians first colonized Carthage that they never once mixed with the Berbers already living there. Hannibal probably looked like a modern Tunisian. Though that doesn't really tell you much, since I don't think Tunisians come in only one colour. Without a photograph of Hannibal it's really going to be impossible to say what he looked like for sure. We also don't know how tall he was or what shoe size he wore.
|
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 20:58 |
Originally posted by jdalton
...Not even Berbers? Are you sure? I find it very difficult to believe that in the 700 years since the Phoenecians first colonized Carthage that they never once mixed with the Berbers already living there.
|
Hannibal was not Punic but Lebanesse. As far as I know, Lebanesse had quite a few mixing with Berbers... don't you think
Originally posted by jdalton
...
Hannibal probably looked like a modern Tunisian. Though that doesn't really tell you much, since I don't think Tunisians come in only one colour. Without a photograph of Hannibal it's really going to be impossible to say what he looked like for sure. We also don't know how tall he was or what shoe size he wore.
|
Yes, there are quite a bit of Tunisians that looked like Hanibbal. But he was a member of the society of Cartago, descendent of Phoenicians. One greatmother was Iberian. Look for the "Barca" family to find out.
Picture of Hannibal,
|
|
JanusRook
Sultan
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2419
|
Posted: 13-Sep-2007 at 01:51 |
Not even Berbers? Are you sure? I find it very difficult to believe
that in the 700 years since the Phoenecians first colonized Carthage
that they never once mixed with the Berbers already living there.
|
The amount of Berbers that entered into this Phoenician Colony would probably be quite small. Remember this was a time when tribes rarely interbred with those they considered inferior. And to the Phoenicians and Carthaginians by extension who had their own rich culture, why would they willingly interbreed en masse with 'uncivilized' desert nomads. Not to say that individuals in the population didn't interbreed, but it wouldn't cause a mixture of populations. Besides even the berbers themselves in that area wouldn't be what modern ethnists would consider 'black'. As to Hannibal himself, he was a general from a rich family, therefore his ancestors would have been noble, meaning that they would strongly lead towards hannibal himself being almost entirely of Phoenician-Mediteranean stock. I agree though it would be interesting if Hannibal was black because it would completely invalidate all researched materials on the general.
|
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
|
|
andrew
Earl
Joined: 31-May-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253
|
Posted: 13-Sep-2007 at 16:09 |
Afrocentrists believe Phoenicians to be 'Great Black Sailors' so that is their claim to Hannibla being Phoenicians. The Phoenicians themselves considered them to be Kenni or Canaanite meanin 'red.' So Canaan was a son of Ham in terms of biblical things but still not all the sons of Ham were considered Black.
Recently they've found that Lebanese genetics varies from the rest of the people in the Levant and relates more with the people of North Africa.
In general the answer to the question, NO!
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Posted: 13-Sep-2007 at 16:33 |
doesn't look very black to me!
|
|
jdalton
Pretorian
Joined: 02-Aug-2007
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 166
|
Posted: 13-Sep-2007 at 23:00 |
Originally posted by andrew
Recently they've found that Lebanese genetics varies from the rest of the people in the Levant and relates more with the people of North Africa.
|
So this could mean that either: A.) The "Sea Peoples," ancestors of the Phoenecians and Philistines were actually from North Africa, or B.) There was a noticeable amount of mixing between Phoenecians and Berbers, though this would be least likely to affect an aristocrat like Hannibal, or C.) Neither, and the Mediterranean is just one big melting pot with genes winding up all over the place. Either way Hannibal does indeed look more north Mediterranean than south Mediterranean. For whatever that's worth. Unlike in the middle ages or ancient Egypt or many other historical cultures, classical artists would be unlikely, I think, to carve a portrait that didn't resemble the subject.
|
|
|
AndronicusRex
Immortal Guard
Joined: 27-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 03:49 |
North Africans are not black, thats Sub-Saharan Africans. No Hannibal was not black, he was Phoenecian, and thus of Semitic and North African origins.
|
Andronicus Rex, Noble of the Republic
http://angryamericanaristocrat.blogspot.com/
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 04:14 |
Hannibal Black? Only in Hollywood
|
|
Justinian
Chieftain
King of Númenor
Joined: 11-Nov-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1399
|
Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 05:38 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Hannibal Black? Only in Hollywood |
WTF? Is that some sort of promo for a beer company!? Drink the beer of Hannibal or something?
|
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
|
|
SuN.
Pretorian
Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156
|
Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 10:41 |
An observation - Inititally people criticised the starter of this thread for starting this, but it is still being discussed in detail & the initial opposition to the this thread seems to have died out & been replaced by a healthy discussion !!
Edited by SuN. - 28-Sep-2007 at 10:42
|
God is not great.
|
|
Decebal
Arch Duke
Digital Prometheus
Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
|
Posted: 28-Sep-2007 at 21:24 |
Healthy discussion? Depends on your definition. More like extended ridicule and side-tracking... There's no one who actually sides with the idea that Hannibal was black. The way you put it, it would make it seem like there's an actual debate on whether he might have been black, whereas the unanimous opinion is that he was not.
|
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
|
|
pekau
Caliph
Atlantean Prophet
Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335
|
Posted: 29-Sep-2007 at 04:53 |
Originally posted by pinguin
Hannibal Black? Only in Hollywood |
I like the picture though. Pretty cool.
|
Join us.
|
|
Mayra
Janissary
Joined: 15-Jan-2007
Location: Nigeria/Brasil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29
|
Posted: 03-Oct-2007 at 00:39 |
Originally posted by pekau
Originally posted by pinguin
Hannibal Black? Only in Hollywood |
I like the picture though. Pretty cool. |
Oh thank god I needed a good laugh today!! It looks like those tusks are two giant sucky straws for his beer bong backpack, you know, off slaughtering and all you work up quite a thirst for refreshment....
I don't know if this is funnier or the Locked threads about african and all, god and I thought I was raising hell on the ESPN soccernet but compared to yoiu guys I'm just a wimp! I've only had to have some delete violations etc., but man you guys really go at each other heheeheh it's kind of refreshing to get away from all that jock lint that has gone to the guys heads and enter the more rarified air of the academic nerdly type
|
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
" I have no particular talent. I am merely inquisitive". Albert Einstein
|
|