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Akolouthos
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Topic: The Age Old Question: Lion vs. Tiger Posted: 31-Jul-2007 at 23:12 |
So I seem to recall seeing this on a TV show once, and there appear to
be several websites and videos dealing with the question. I cannot
think of a topic of more pressing concern (except perhaps pirate vs.
ninja, or vampire vs. werewolf). Take this as seriously as you can; we
should deal with vital issues like this in a dignified manner.
Result: 1i0N pWnZ +Yg3r
-Akolouthos
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Knights
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Posted: 31-Jul-2007 at 23:50 |
Ah, the good old lion vs. tiger debate, Akolouthos! One of my
favourites to discuss. May I refer you to an earlier topic about this
too:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17524&KW=lion+tiger
In tigers -who are generally
solitary- the male cannot rely upon the female to hunt for him. He must
not only hunt for himself, but defend, patrol and mark his territory at
the same time. This is a lot more strenuous and time consuming.
When it comes down to the hard facts and physical behaviours and adaptations that would prove advantageous over the other, the tiger comes out on top.
Let's compare basic statistics:
African Lion
Weight - Up to 220kg (Male)
Speed - 75kph (Probably 70kph max for a male)
Adaptations - large mane to look imposing as well as to
protect vital organs in the neck and head, plus the typical shared
characteristics with tigers - long, sharp canines, retractile claws, bulk, large batting paws.etc.
Typical prey - Wildebeest, Cape Buffalo, Zebra Tiger
Some subspecies: Siberian Tiger- Up to 350kg and 2.5 - 3m long
Bengal Tiger - Up to 230kg and 3m long
Sumatran Tiger - About 120kg and up to 2.4m long
Adaptations - Speed (70kph), superb jumping ability due to
enhanced hind leg muscles, longest canines of all cats, huge paws,
powerful front legs for pulling when running, and taking down prey
single-handedly, paralytic roar.
Typical Prey - Deer, Water Buffalo, Wild Pig
Now if we compare those statistics we discover that the tiger, overall is larger and more agile than a typical male lion (this of course is open to variation).
With the protection of the mane comes reduced maneuverability and extra
baggage. One particular thing that would probably prove the edge for the tiger is the extremely powerful forelimbs it has. They are used for pulling the tiger forward in pursuit and are necessary for taking down large prey. Their agility would also be a major factor.
Upon seeing a tiger fight in the wild, one realises that they fight in a very different fashion to male lions. While lions tend to bat at each other and try to claw each others faces, also trying to get a bite to the others back or neck, tigers have a much more fierce and tiring approach to conflict. Tigers
wrestle like house cats, locking together and rolling around in a
frenzy in an attempt to tire, claw, shred and tear at the other. While lion fights end in death rarely, tiger fights are responsible for a much higher percentage of male tiger's deaths (and in some cases, females).
My conclusion is that the tiger would cause fatal wounds to the lion, but in doing so cop several nasty lacerations itself. The tiger would win, while the lion would die. The combination of agility, raw power and muscular strength and size would be on the tiger's side.
Note: In India's Gir Forest, the last refuge of Asiatic lions in the world, tigers have been known to have killed the tigers in fights.
Another area of variation is between tiger species. While a Siberian Tiger tends to weight at least 100kg more, and possess much more power, the lion still has a chance against smaller subspecies. The Bengal Tiger averages at about 200kg (males) or just under. This is roughly the same, if not a tad less, than the typical male African Lion. On the other hand though, the Sumatran and South China tiger's are both a fair bit smaller than the lion, 100kg and 150kg approx. respectively. Regardless, assuming each weighed approximately the same, I'm betting on the tiger. This is contrary to discovery channel who actually made a show dedicated to animal face-offs. The lion vs. tiger one, in my opinion, is ludicrous. However, this show has a tendency towards giving the tiger the raw end of the deal - it gets beaten by every animal it faces off against! See: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDh93IB_nts/[url]
Keep in mind though that I wouldn't be surprised if the Lion pulled off a victory. A lot of it has to do with initial positioning and first blow.
Victory to Panthera Tigris!
- Knights -
EDIT: Moved to Natural History - is that OK?
Edited by Knights - 01-Aug-2007 at 00:01
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Justinian
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 00:10 |
Well it seems Knights has summed up all of the arguements I had so, I agree with him.
Now if this were a contest between a tiger and two young male lions (like the ones who will tag team and take over a pride from an older male lion) then I might have to change my response.
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"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
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Akolouthos
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 00:10 |
And here I thought I was being original; at least as far as this forum goes--the phrase "age old" probably conveyed that I didn't think I had invented the question. Thank you for the informative response and the link. Hm... Maybe I should start a werewolf vs. vampire thread... -Akolouthos
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elenos
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 09:39 |
Bravo Knights! You saved me having to think the problem out. I have seen docos of them both on the hunt for the same prey, but the lions seem to win for they can gang up on solitary predators to drive them away. I know they detest each other and kill the others cubs, but have never thought of full grown animals fighting to the death. My thoughts are their survival instinct would kick in to tell them when to back off rather than suffer serious damage.
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elenos
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Dolphin
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 10:00 |
They do have that Instinct, Elenos, but the creature winning mightn't be too keen to let you get away.. Chimps, the primate most similar to us have been known to hunt down and murder an individual of their group should that individual present a threat or disrupt the social pecking order of the group. They hunt in packs and beat the chimp to death. So, maybe with intelligence comes inevitable violence, and we are actually denying our natural instincts with rules and morals...
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Knights
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Posted: 01-Aug-2007 at 19:38 |
Originally posted by Akolouthos
And here I thought I was being original; at least as far as this forum goes--the phrase "age old" probably conveyed that I didn't think I had invented the question. Thank you for the informative response and the link. Hm... Maybe I should start a werewolf vs. vampire thread...
-Akolouthos
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No! I didn't mean it that way...just linked you to it for further reference on the matter. That topic died so I'm glad a new one started up Oh and I think the werewolf would win! Also, as Justinian said, if, what they call a coalition of male lions faces up against even a Siberian Tiger, chances are the lions would win, but you never know.
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elenos
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 00:14 |
Yeah, werewolf defeats vampire. Kill the little suckers!
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elenos
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Conservative
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 16:32 |
Speaking of lions, does anyone know how many asiatic lions are left in Iran? I think that they were supposed to have existed once in north east and south east Iran. Are there any reserves for them or is the lion now extinct from Iran?
Edited by Conservative - 02-Aug-2007 at 16:32
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Knights
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 16:37 |
I believe the Asiatic Lion is extinct from Iran, its last stronghold is the Gir Forest, in India. About 200-300 exist here. However, there may have been reported sightings in Iran, so I will look into it for you.
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Zagros
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 16:37 |
extinct by 1940. tigers were gone by 1900s.
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Knights
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Posted: 02-Aug-2007 at 16:41 |
Although, it must be said that the most enduring of big cats, the Leopard, still exists in parts of Iran, Western Asia and the Middle East too. The most common subspecies found in Iran is the Persian Leopard Panthera Pardus Saxicolor, which is the largest of all Leopard subspecies. It has a very characteristic smaller rosette coat pattern:
Edited by Knights - 02-Aug-2007 at 16:43
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Balaam
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Posted: 05-Aug-2007 at 07:06 |
A liger would whip both there asses
p.s. a vampire vs werewolf fight would all depend on what show we are getting them from
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Knights
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Posted: 05-Aug-2007 at 07:11 |
Yes, ligers, due solely to their huge size would most probably be able to overcome a lion or tiger. Only thing that isn't on their side is agility (and possibly wild instinct/fighting skills, because ligers are almost always domesticated or tamed in zoos or breeding centres).
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mamikon
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Posted: 05-Aug-2007 at 12:24 |
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elenos
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Posted: 05-Aug-2007 at 23:35 |
There was a young man of Niger, Who rode onthe back of a liger. When he got there, nothing was there Except a smile on the face of the liger!
OK, so I stole that one, the first limerick in the book. I'm sorry Edward Lear. The liger is beautiful , but one doubts such a bred creature would survive in the wild.
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elenos
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Knights
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Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 02:31 |
Whether it survives in the wild or not does not matter (except to the Liger itself), as Liger offspring are infertile. The "species" wouldn't continue. In terms of the individual rather than the population surviving, well, they wouldn't have any problems with predators...however, the art of stalking and hunting may be challenging to a hand reared or ex-captivity Liger - not to mention having the speed to catch the speedy deer or samba!
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Patch
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Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 03:47 |
Originally posted by Justinian
Well it seems Knights has summed up all of the arguements I had so, I agree with him.
Now if this were a contest between a tiger and two young male lions (like the ones who will tag team and take over a pride from an older male lion) then I might have to change my response. |
That is a good point - lions are more cooperative and hunt as a pack whereas tigers are more lone hunters. Thus it would be three or more lions vs one tiger thus the lions would win.
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Knights
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Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 03:52 |
Though this may be the case, I believe this is a lion (singular) vs. tiger (singular) contest...so the lion doesn't get help from his pride. Plus, if the tiger wanted to, it could either outpace a lion and run off, or climb a tree. Although with their large size both are fairly cumbersome climbers, the tiger is the better of the two. (nothing compared to a leopard or puma)
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pekau
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Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 23:00 |
Originally posted by elenos
Yeah, werewolf defeats vampire. Kill the little suckers! |
How did we get so off topic?
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