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Philhellene
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Topic: Horned elephants Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 08:40 |
Seleucus I Nicator struck coins with Zeus` laureated head on obverse and quadriga with the horned epephants on reverse. So, I`m interested why these elephants are horned? What do their horns mean?
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John the Kern
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Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 10:04 |
Could be just battle dress, like putting crests on Helmets, dont really see the point however as an elephant charging at you is scary enough.
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Segestan
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Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 12:03 |
Most of the Elephants struck in coins from Seleucas were of the Syrian elephant, a Very Large beast larger even than the african. I believe the largest known of was 23 feet at the shoulder. An breed that was used to extinction.Don't know about those horns. Battle dress does seem logical.
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Spartakus
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Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 12:06 |
Personally,battle dress is ,indeed, the best possible explanation.
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 17-Feb-2007 at 20:42 |
Probably battle dress, I would say. Anyways, I think maybe this is where Tolkien, or Peter Jackson for this matter, got the idea for the Mumakil, which are a sort of horned elephant.
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Gargoyle
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Posted: 18-Feb-2007 at 11:46 |
Originally posted by Philhellene
Seleucus I Nicator struck coins with Zeus` laureated head on obverse and quadriga with the horned epephants on reverse. So, I`m interested why these elephants are horned? What do their horns mean? |
Hello Philhellene,
What a lovely Coin!
Unfortunately one is not an expert on the Coinage of the Era of the Seleucidae, but..... I believe that the HORNS are probably emblematic of Divine Power. Meaning that these Elephants are Elephants with extraordinary Divine Strength. Seleukos I, is showing how great and powerfull his Elephants are..... and in reality they were.
Horns quite frequently appear on the Coinage of Seleukos I and other Rulers of this period,(Alexander the Great) on their heads, on their helmets, and very often on Horses and other Animals,(as in this case) on the heads of elephants.
The Anchor located in the field of the coin possibly reffers to his time as Ptolemy's Admiral.
Here is another coin of Seleukos I with a little bit of information regarding a Horned Elephant.....
http://www.sfagn.info/collection/seleukos_i.html
I hope this helps...
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Gargoyle
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Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 12:17 |
Hello,
The reverse of this coin depicts a Horned Horse. The information below it has a tiny reference to the Horns being an Eastern Symbol of Divine Power.
http://www.freemanandsear.com/displayproduct.pl?prodid=3554
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Philhellene
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Posted: 19-Feb-2007 at 15:48 |
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pekau
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Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 01:48 |
Battle dress, unless a counterexample is given...
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pekau
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Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 01:49 |
Not just East, mind you. Indo-Europeans, Minoans, and other Western civilization saw the horn as something divine or powerful symbol. Where do you think the aggressive tone "horny" is from?
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Gargoyle
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Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 04:31 |
Originally posted by pekau
Battle dress, unless a counterexample is given... |
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Top Gun
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Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 07:53 |
it had to symbolize some power probarbly
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Philhellene
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Posted: 25-Feb-2007 at 05:49 |
By the way, what is the meaning of anchor placed over the elephants?
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Gargoyle
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Posted: 26-Feb-2007 at 00:24 |
Hello Philhellene,
The Anchor was apparently the personal Emblem of Seleucus I, he is said to have used it as his signet, see Justin, xv. 4, and Appian, Syr., 56; and cf. Svoronos, Νομ. των Πτολ. i. p. ρα', and iv. p. 44, where it is suggested that it may be a reminiscence of his service as Ptolemys admiral. But most definately it is a Symbol of the Seleucid Empire. It also shows us who is responsible for minting the coin... and quite possibly may have been a mint mark as well.
The following is from APPIAN's... The Syrian Wars or Syriaca. It deals with the war that the Romans and the Seleucid king Antiochus III the Great fought in 192-188, but also discusses, as an appendix, the history of the Seleucid Empire. Therefore, the Syriaca is a valuable source for the history of the ancient Near East between the reign of Alexander the Great and the Roman conquest..... this is from a section concerning various Oracles and Prodigies concerning Seleucus I...
"It was said also that in Macedonia a great fire burst forth on his ancestral hearth without anybody lighting it; also that his mother saw in a dream that whatever ring she found she should give him to carry, and that he should be king at the place where he should lose the ring. She did find an iron ring with an anchor engraved on it, and he lost it near the Euphrates. It is said that at a later period, when he was returning to recover Babylon, he stumbled against a stone and that when he caused this stone to be dug up an anchor was found under it. When the soothsayers were alarmed at this prodigy, thinking that it portended delay, Ptolemy, the son of Lagus, who accompanied the expedition, said that an anchor was a sign of safety, not of delay. For this reason Seleucus, when he became king, used an engraved anchor for his signet-ring."
I also read somewhere that Seleucus I had a Birthmark in the shape of an Anchor. Whether this is True or Not who knows.?????
A small reference to an anchor...
http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Seleucid_coinage
Sorry I cannot offer anything more substantial Philhellene because unfortunately my Numismatic Library mainly concerns Coinage of the Roman Empire and is totally devoid of information about the Seleucids. The internet doesn't offer much either. Maybe one should buy some more books because it is a very interesting period of History.
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Posted: 26-Feb-2007 at 17:49 |
why is the guy in the chariot bigger than the elephants, is it just symbolic?
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Gargoyle
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Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 05:28 |
I don't think it is symbolic of anything..... Maybe the Warrior is enlarged so that people handling the coin can clearly see that there is a Warrior in the Chariot?
For an accurate answer to that question Tsar Yuriy, I'm afraid that we would have to Travel back in Time 2300 years and ask the Engraver/Artist himself.
Unfortunately my Time Machine is at the Mechanics for a Service at the moment..... but..... as soon as it is ready we will all go together back in time and visit Seleucus himself!
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