Malay People

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Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 10:44

Originally posted by �ok ge�

I couldn't find an answer in this thread so far to the question if the Austronesian or Malay people ethnically related or languistically related or a mix of both. The map that Tin-Tan posted shows the following spread of Austronesian or Malay languages:

Is this a spread of language? ethnic immigration? or both?

For what I can gather, this is the most likely route of expansion of Malay peoples, starting in Taiwan (Taiwanese aboriginals), going into Philippines first, then into Borneo and finally into Sumatra and Malay peninsula. There may have been several Malay waves and the "dark orange" arrows possibly want to mark the late expansion of Malay proper peoples from Borneo into Malay peninsula and Sumatra (and soon after to Madagascar).

The connection with Polinesians inside the Austronesian group is still confuse. The most reent classification seems to be:

Consensus Malayo-Polynesian classification (Wouk & Ross 2002)

Malayo-Polynesian

Outer Hesperonesian, or Outer Western Malayo-Polynesian: Borneo and the Philippines: Many small groups of languages, with the most important languages being Tagalog, Cebuano, Hiligaynon, Ilokano, Kapampangan, Malagasy
Nuclear Malayo-Polynesian (possibly dispersed from Sulawesi)
- Sunda-Sulawesi, or Inner Western Malayo-Polynesian: Western Indonesia: Javanese, Sundanese, Malay (Malaysian/Indonesian), Cham (of Vietnam), Balinese, Buginese (of Sulawesi), Chamorro (of Guam), Palauan
- Central-Eastern Malayo-Polynesian
  - Central Malayo-Polynesian: Around the Banda Sea: Languages of Timor, Sumba, Flores, and the Malukus
  - Eastern Malayo-Polynesian, or "Melanesian", if this is taken to subsume Micronesian and Polynesian
    - Halmahera-Geelvink Bay: Languages of Halmahera and western Irian Jaya, the most important being Buli and Biak
    - Oceanic
      - West Oceanic: Languages of coastal New Guinea from Jayapura east, and the Solomon Islands
      - Manus, possibly including the language of Yap, in Micronesia
      - East Oceanic
        South Solomons
        South Vanuatu
        Remote Oceanic
        New Caledonia, including Paicĩ
        Loyalty Islands
        North Vanuatu
        Micronesian, such as Chuukese, Gilbertese
        Fijian-Polynesian languages, such as Samoan

Source: Wikipedia - Austronesian languages

According to this classification, it would seem that the languages of Oceania (Eastern Malayo-Polinesian) branch out from those of South-Eastern Indonesia, then from those of the Malay-speaking nations of Irian Jaya, then spreading out to the islands. In a sense, all Oceania (except Australia and Papua) seem to be Malay (in the wide sense).

If you awnt something on Malayo-Oceanian genetics (y-chr lineages) check this.

Edited by Maju

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Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 09:59

Good explanation from Hamizao..
Anyway would like to add here.. Tin-Tin is a nick (lol ).. but i am not so sure whether it has a meaning.. have to chck with the nick owner..

Originally posted by cok gec

this a spread of language? ethnic immigration? or both?

Based on the source i have here.. the map probably shows the ethnic migration. coz Anthropologists had traced the home of the Malay race to the nortwestern part of Yunan in China..proto - Malays or Jakun were a seafaring people. they were once from coastal Borneo who expanded into Sumatra and the Malay Peninsular as a result of their trading and seafaring way of life. This may explain the map and the arrows direction.. but I am not sure why the map shows different colors of arrows.

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Posted: 06-Feb-2006 at 03:30

Originally posted by Censored

What are Malayan people.What is 'Rumpun Melayu' as wht Tin Tin said.Who are Tin Tin.

May I?

In 1963, Singapore, North Borneo(later known as Sabah) and Sarawak joined Malaya in the Federation of Malayasia. People became known as Malaysians.(Singapore became independent later in 1965). Before Malaysia, the people of Malaya were known as Malayans. Now they are generally known as West Malaysians while East Malaysians are the people from Sarawak and Sabah.

"Rumpun Melayu" refers to the Malay ethnics of the Malay Archipelago. Over the years they have evolved into various sub-cultural groups and known by different names.

Edited by Hamizao

�ok ge�

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Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 21:06

Is this a spread of language? ethnic immigration? or both?

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Posted: 05-Feb-2006 at 00:38

What are Malayan people.What is 'Rumpun Melayu' as wht Tin Tin said.Who are Tin Tin.

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Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 13:58

Originally posted by Hamizao

Hi, Cahaya. Where did the prev avatar go. I kind of like it.

lol@ Hamizao .. I was thinking to promote Malay wardrobe to others when I started to use it... the real Baju kurung with Songket cloth... and the accesories... cucuk sanggul... and all... i'll use it bck once in a while...

Originally posted by Maju

Well, the last time I recall that someone posted on Cambodian history, suddenly two or three members of nearby countries (I recall a Thai and a Viet) bashed him and stupidly prided that their nations had smashed Cambodians. I guess the topic ended being locked but I'm not sure.

Tht's supposed to be not good.. Malay people not only refer to Malaysian.. It's open to all Malay people all around the world.. we just want to share the history, the culture, the languages from the other friends... nobody is saying someone is better from others.. We all 'Rumpun Melayu' as wht Tin Tin said...

Edited by cahaya

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Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 10:51

Originally posted by cahaya

Senoi and Negrito are being suggest tht to have historical link with indegenous peoples in Burma, Thailand and Indo-China...

As similar human remains indicating dark-skinned and small stature race and artifacs have been found in Indo-China, Thailand, Peninsular Malaysia (Senois & Sakais)and east coast of Sumatra they have been grouped togather. Hence the relationship you had mentioned. I shall not say anymore as there is a whole host of ppl living in the jungles of SE Asia (who, by culture and ritual practices and language may also be grouped by the experts hence expanding further possible relationships)and I ain't an anthropologist.....

Originally posted by cahaya

Well.. for proto Malay, their ancestor were believed came from the Indonesian Island..

They are believed to have reached the Malay Archipelago by sea route. Hence, they could have indeed reached Peninsular Malaysia via Indonesia. I read somewhere that some scholars also called them Indonesians.

Edited by Hamizao

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Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 09:06

Hi, Cahaya. Where did the prev avatar go. I kind of like it.

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Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 04:18

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Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 00:08

Originally posted by TinTin

To date we tend to focus on the Malays in Peninsular which is part of Malaysia. However, for the sake of our intenational friends in this forum, we should steer the discussion towards the idea that the Malay race are the people living in 'Nusantara' or the Malay Archipelago. That include the people living, under the new geo-political structure, in the state of Indonesia, Malaysia, Philiphine,Sigapore, Brunei and the young independent state of Timor Leste.

There are so much things to be discovere and discussed under this topic such as:

The formation of the several empires like the Srivijaya, Majapahit, Sailandra, Singhasari and the Malacca Sultanate
The influencce of the Hindu culture and religion in the region ( including Buddhaism)
The Chinese hegemony when the Chinese navy ruled the Southern Sea
The influence of the Islam through the Arab and Indian Muslim traders
The coming of the Europeans and colonisation
The infux of the immigrant from China and India in the region
Development after post colonialism

Of course we cannot tell everything in a single breath.

U are absolutely rite.. tht's why we need a forum where other members need to contribute and share their knowledge with others... those points u mentioned.. we can discuss on different topics.. feel free to create one topic tin tin... especially the Malay development after post colonialism.. sounds interesting... It would be nice to see some post on South East Asia in this forum rather thn to see all about South Asia

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Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 20:17

There are so much things to be discovere and discussed under this topic such as:

The formation of the several empires like the Srivijaya, Majapahit, Sailandra, Singhasari and the Malacca Sultanate
The influencce of the Hindu culture and religion in the region ( including Buddhaism)
The Chinese hegemony when the Chinese navy ruled the Southern Sea
The influence of the Islam through the Arab and Indian Muslim traders
The coming of the Europeans and colonisation
The infux of the immigrant from China and India in the region
Development after post colonialism

Of course we cannot tell everything in a single breath.

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Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:59

Here I would like to share some info on Orang Asli

Orang Asli or the indegenious minority peoples of Peninsular Malaysia.. They are considered as original peoples or first people.

From study done by few researches, there are 18 sub-ethnic groups which can be classified in these groups:-

-Negrito
-Senoi
-Proto-Malay

They represent less than 1% of our country population...

Senoi and Negrito are being suggest tht to have historical link with indegenous peoples in Burma, Thailand and Indo-China...

Well.. for proto Malay, their ancestor were believed came from the Indonesian Island..

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Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 11:23

I must admit that prior to the arrival of the Malays to the Peninsular Malaysia the place was already inhibited by two types of people :

The dark skin race related to the Australian Aborigines;
Asian looked which the researchers called South Mongoloid.

These are the indigenous peoples of the Peninsular Malaysia. I will come back once I get more information.

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Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 02:58

Originally posted by TinTin

That sound intresting

Another of my theory is that during the early days they sailed to the east and discovered the South Pacific Islands but they have no skill in using iron and brass as tools.Very skillful sailors but somehow they sticked to the equator and that explained why the Malays never colonised Australia. My second theory is they did discovered the western seaboard of Australia,however, because of the arid condition of the land they refused to settle down. If they could have ventured further east Sidney and Melbourne could be called by another name.

An interesting thought , TinTin.

Your post on the origin of the Malays in the Malay Archipelago is equally interesting. However, I would like to add that those ppl from Taiwan are believed to be from Yunnan in China.

Experts say that there were three waves of ancient migration of ppl into the Archipelago :

1. Around 22,000 years ago of Afro-Asiatic race from the Andaman region. They were rather primitive and became the aboriginal ppl like the Sakais, Negritos, Javaman etc.

2. Around 3,000 BCE, the Proto Malays from Yunnan. They cultivated rice and used bronze. They settled by the river banks and pushed the earlier settlers further inland and into the jungles.

3. Around 1,000(?) BCE the Malays from Yunnan who were navigators, potters, weavers, blacksmiths etc.

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Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 20:37

That sound intresting

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Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 14:09

Originally posted by TinTin

Indeed my friend.

As we know from history the Malays were seafaring race. I havn't seen any material concerning the relationship between the Malays and the Polynesian. All I can tell you is based on research done by James Michiner when he wrote the novel' Hawaii'. The Polynesien claimed that their root from the Malays of the SE Asia.

The do seem linguistically related.

The Malagasy are Malays stock and I was told that the language and custom are akin to the early Malay culture. Frankly I have no idea how they managed to get there.

Just canoing.

Most likely they sailed from Indonesia to Sri Lanka or southern India and then were carried by the monsoon. Probably they first stayed in mainland Africa (where some Malay apportations are found too) as the Seychelles and other islands of the Indian Ocean that they would have stopped in otherwise were uninhabited at the time of European exploration.

They must have abandoned Indonesia after the local start of the Iron Age but before the arrival of Hinduism. That places the migration around the first centuries of the Common Era.

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Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 12:14

Originally posted by Tin Tin

However the people of �Malay Archipelago� identify themselves as their sub-ethnic grouping as shown above but at heart as �Rumpun Melayu� the Malay root.

this remind me to UMNO's Song:

Bersatu Kita Bersatu

Dengan Setia Berganding Bahu

Jiwa Teguh Berpadu

Kita Rumpun Melayu

.......

It's sounds almost like this:

Unite we Unite, Always loyal to support,

The heart strongly Unite.. We are the Malay people..

*My translation sounds ugly

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Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 11:57

Indeed my friend.

The Malagasy are Malays stock and I was told that the language and custom are akin to the early Malay culture. Frankly I have no idea how they managed to get there.

AS for the Cape Malays in South Africa the history is quite clear. Bulk of them were shipped by the Dutch from Malacca to serve the early white sattlers in South Africa.

Maju