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opuslola
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Topic: Creation of Islam Posted: 19-Aug-2010 at 15:16 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
<span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px; ">I believe Cyrus sees in Hamas the religious oppressors of his own country, hence its only natural for him to support their enemies. | </span><span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">Natural? It is more like delusional. Israel supported Hamas against secular el Fetih, fat lot of good it did to them. US supported el Qaeda against USSR, tell how 'natural' it was to those who died in the twin towers.</span> <span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;"></span> <span ="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;">He doesn't like the Iranian regime, so what? I don't like them either. But one must lack in many faculties to write what he writes. If Israel or America will bomb Iran tomorrow, his kind will learn the lesson of solidarity the hard way. </span> |
And such may well happen at any time!
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Reginmund
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Posted: 27-Jan-2009 at 11:41 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
Natural? It is more like delusional. Israel
supported Hamas against secular el Fetih, fat lot of good it did to
them. US supported el Qaeda against USSR, tell how 'natural' it was to
those who died in the twin towers.
He
doesn't like the Iranian regime, so what? I don't like them either. But
one must lack in many faculties to write what he writes. If Israel or
America will bomb Iran tomorrow, his kind will learn the lesson of
solidarity the hard way. |
I can sympathise with his desire for a secular Iran based on Iranian rather than Islamic traditions. The more pressure is exerted on Iran however the greater the popular support for the present regime will be, as there is no better tool for enforcing uniformity than an external enemy. From this POV Cyrus' support for the US and Israel is irrational, as it is counterproductive. The initiative for change must come from a majority reaction in the Iranian people if it is to produce lasting results.
Originally posted by Bulldog
Depends what you call an error.
Personally I haven't come
across errors but I'm no theologian and I've mainly just read from the
Holy Qur'an. Most of what is written is concerned with living a moral
life, helping your community and and the importance of justice so I
didn't find it "wrong" in my oppinon.
We can all believe what we like, as long as we respect each other. |
I call it an error if it contradicts modern science. The parts you mention contain subjective truths so they can never be "wrong", but there is also plenty of material in the both the Bible and the Quran that contradicts a lot of what is considered established fact by scientists today. Then again this does not matter if you are religious, which I assume you are since you operate with terms like "holy", as belief then comes before reasoning. And of course I respect everyone as humans regardless of what they believe, but it must also be possible to criticise a person's viewpoints on any topic in a mature and intelligent manner without being seen as disrespectful.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 16:48 |
I should admire our Arab members' reaction toward this thread!
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Bulldog
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Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 16:29 |
Reginmund Concerning the books of the major world religions; they are all full of
errors. What can one expect, they were written in a comparably ignorant
age. | Depends what you call an error. Personally I haven't come across errors but I'm no theologian and I've mainly just read from the Holy Qur'an. Most of what is written is concerned with living a moral life, helping your community and and the importance of justice so I didn't find it "wrong" in my oppinon. We can all believe what we like, as long as we respect each other.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 16:01 |
I believe Cyrus sees in Hamas the religious oppressors of his own country, hence its only natural for him to support their enemies. |
Natural? It is more like delusional. Israel supported Hamas against secular el Fetih, fat lot of good it did to them. US supported el Qaeda against USSR, tell how 'natural' it was to those who died in the twin towers.
He doesn't like the Iranian regime, so what? I don't like them either. But one must lack in many faculties to write what he writes. If Israel or America will bomb Iran tomorrow, his kind will learn the lesson of solidarity the hard way.
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Reginmund
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Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 14:58 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
That some people may take offence is not necessarily a reason for not saying or doing something. |
Being offensive is often the way to go. If you called Hitler a bad leader in 1940 you'd insult the majority of the German nation, but most would now agree it would have been a meritorious act. It's far more admirable to stand up for what you believe is right than to bow your head before the consensus of the brainwashed masses. Concerning the books of the major world religions; they are all full of errors. What can one expect, they were written in a comparably ignorant age. Concerning Cyrus and Israel. I believe Cyrus sees in Hamas the religious oppressors of his own country, hence its only natural for him to support their enemies.
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Seko
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Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 14:29 |
I totally agree with Beylerbeyi! Speak as freely as you want, being that others want to as well!
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 10:04 |
Actually, this is the second time he accuses me of insulting all Iranian peoples. The first time was when I wrote that 'Germans are not Aryan'...
As to dinosaurs being Iranian, I was making fun of the extreme nationalists. If a Turk wrote ridiculous things like that I would have written the same for Turks. Get over it...
As to Israel and Palestine, Cyrus, my reasons for supporting Palestine are not the same as your reasons for supporting Israel, at all. I won't elaborate on your actions and personality since that is likely to get me a warning.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 24-Jan-2009 at 14:37 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
One example of what people in Iran may find offensive.
Cyrus The book, which was collected later from his stories, is full of errors. |
I think people take more offense to slurs against their faith than against a historic king.
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That some people may take offence is not necessarily a reason for not saying or doing something.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 24-Jan-2009 at 12:34 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
One example of what people in Iran may find offensive.
Cyrus The book, which was collected later from his stories, is full of errors. |
I think people take more offense to slurs against their faith than against a historic king.
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Do you mean there is no story in that book or no error?!! You could say the insription of Darius the Great at Behistun includes some stories and is full of errors. We Iranians are not so close-minded as you think.
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Some
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Posted: 24-Jan-2009 at 10:16 |
Originally posted by es_bih
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Seko, people believe in their country and their nationality, as much as you believe in you religion, do you know how many people have been killed so for in the defense of their countries? Why do you think religious beliefs are more important than nationalist beliefs? You don't attack relgions but you can insult the whole Iranian people by calling our National Hero "Dariosaur"!!! |
If you are insulted by Dariosaur...then we should be insulted by Germans being alleged 'Iranian' speakers, etc....
not only that, but to be insulted by something that was created out of comedic relief is rather childish. As your actions to create a insultive thread just to get attention. Not my fault that a multitude of people think Israel should be criticized. Perhaps you should have attacked the conglomerate, or each individual group found here that critiqued, but not singled one group out.
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I agree it is very childish but hey it is super nationalist Cyrus who I have debated now for so extremly long proving time and time again that Germanic languages is not a branch of Iranian languages or that Scythian and Saxon are not the same but he refuses to accept that despite what argument you give.
How ever I like when people debate about religions and religions origins and what influnced and what and so on we need more of that in a respectfull manner not less.
Debating theology is no problem if you ask me
All love
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 23:18 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Israel is my country for the same reason as Palestine is yours!! |
Ok...
....so I deduce because he likes justice and you don't?
Not a fair deduction I know... but see that is what happenns when you don't take the time to formulate an answer or don't have hindsight.
Bey is non religious and an atheist I believe...so neight Muslim or Christian...
...and Turkey had some decent relations with Israel...
...again see my point?
You are assuming something without thinking about what the assumption is.
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 23:09 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Seko, people believe in their country and their nationality, as much as you believe in you religion, do you know how many people have been killed so for in the defense of their countries? Why do you think religious beliefs are more important than nationalist beliefs? You don't attack relgions but you can insult the whole Iranian people by calling our National Hero "Dariosaur"!!! |
If you are insulted by Dariosaur...then we should be insulted by Germans being alleged 'Iranian' speakers, etc....
not only that, but to be insulted by something that was created out of comedic relief is rather childish. As your actions to create a insultive thread just to get attention. Not my fault that a multitude of people think Israel should be criticized. Perhaps you should have attacked the conglomerate, or each individual group found here that critiqued, but not singled one group out.
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Some
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 22:01 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
Cyrus You don't attack relgions but you can insult the whole Iranian people by calling our National Hero "Dariosaur"!!! |
You've insulted the Iranian people a whole lot more by attacking the religion of 98% of Iran so its ironic to feel offended by a joke about a an old King.
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Bulldog with all respect remember that Iran is a theocracy with no freedom of religion and it get's worse all the time. Prosecution still happens of religious minorities and also to people who dare to get the taught of leaving Islam and freedom of religion is very regulated. Many immigrants from Iran that I know of could not even dare to leave Islam while in Iran because they will get extreme punishment for it of the government finds out it seems to get even worse now when talk about pure death penalty to anyone who leaves Islam.
In regimes like that I do not think one can purely say how many % someone is Muslim because many of them might be or not might not be believing Muslims but they do not dare to say that.
So yeah Iran is majority Muslim nation but to lay exact numbers cannot be done in totalitarian theocracies.
All love from some girl
Edited by Some - 23-Jan-2009 at 22:02
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Bulldog
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 21:54 |
One example of what people in Iran may find offensive.
Cyrus The book, which was collected later from his stories, is full of errors. | I think people take more offense to slurs against their faith than against a historic king.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 21:17 |
Darius the Great was one of our greatest kings, you could say he was not a great king, we have discussed about it in several threads in AE, you could even say he was not actually a king but you are directly insulting to this Iranian national hero by calling him a "Dinosaur"!!!
Did I say something similar to it about the prophet of Islam, wasn't he illiterate? or a merchant? those are just my interpretation of some historical events in that period, I never insult to anyone.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 20:38 |
Cyrus You don't attack relgions but you can insult the whole Iranian people by calling our National Hero "Dariosaur"!!! |
You've insulted the Iranian people a whole lot more by attacking the religion of 98% of Iran so its ironic to feel offended by a joke about a an old King.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 19:42 |
Israel is my country for the same reason as Palestine is yours!!
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 19:11 |
people believe in their country and their nationality, as much as you believe in you religion |
So Israel is your country and Israeli is your nationality? Then why are you worried about Dariosaur?
Edited by Beylerbeyi - 23-Jan-2009 at 19:12
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 23-Jan-2009 at 18:45 |
Seko, people believe in their country and their nationality, as much as you believe in you religion, do you know how many people have been killed so for in the defense of their countries? Why do you think religious beliefs are more important than nationalist beliefs? You don't attack relgions but you can insult the whole Iranian people by calling our National Hero "Dariosaur"!!!
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 23-Jan-2009 at 18:46
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