A new era of islamic calvinism??

O ofcourse you have a point gcle2003.

And there are many Hadith. Muslims however will ask as to whether the Hadith is 'Sahih' meaning correct or strong. You see there are weak ones out there as well. Thank God that their are Sahih Hadith such as Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi. These Hadith collections are undisputed for being Sahih.

That means that you have either not read carefully to my replies or that you have not understood.

-All Muslim's are required to follow the Qur'an. (iam glad that we both agree on this matter)

-Muslim's believe that the Qur'an is the word of God, Allah. (we also agree to this)

-Qur'an teaches us to follow the teachings of the final Prophet and Messenger Muhammad PBUH. Thus Allah, since the Qur'an is Allah's words is ordering to follow the final messenger PBUH.

-The actions of the final messenger PBUH are known as 'Sunnah'

-Books that have been compiled with the sunnah are known as 'Hadith'

One who reads these points will come to the conclusion that Allah has ordered us to follow the Qur'an and the Hadith (Sunnah->actions of the messenger PBUH). This is proven by the quote i gave to you on this topic already twice.

Thus the Sunnah is truly halal.

What version are you working from?

The King James has

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived. neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Nor thieves, not covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the Kingdom of God.

Nice to be able to make up your own translations as you want. You can get rid of almost anything that way.

Moreover, it's from a letter of Paul's, not the Gospels. There's nothing in Christ's teaching to this effect.

Proponents of reform in any religion can produce one of two justifications:

a) they are returning the faith to its true roots, and getting rid of man-made accretions that have distorted the original message.

b) peripheral aspects of the orthodox teaching (like restriction of priesthood to men in the Roman Catholic Church) were valid temporary expedients in their day, but need to change to reflect changes in society. At its simplest, least challengeable level, this would refer for instance to something like priests not wearing clerical collars.

For a couple of examples:

From (a) above, because they think their version is the correct one, and the orthodox are wrong.

(I have some sympathy with your viewpoint with regard to Roman Catholics who don't want to accept the authority of the Pope. This is logical nonsense since the whole essence of Roman Catholicism lies in the authority of the Pope.)

Under (b) above the argument would be that at one time, when homosexuality was unacceptable to civil society, it would be counter-productive to have homosexual bishops and priests. But that would be a matter of discipline and pragmatics, not a central tenet, and would therefore be open to revision as the idea of a homosexual clergyman became more acceptable to society at large.

Where do you find that in 'the Christian text'?

Reform can mean many things. The reform I would like to see is one that steers from ignorance. Insight and an intelligent review of Islam should be researched for a better understanding.

I am all for reform.

What this basically means is to increase our knowledge of this religion and accept what is truthful about it and challenge the accepted norm in some instances. Most of our current traditions are brought into religion and hence created. But they were not part of the religion originally. A good look at Islam can hurt no one, except for those who think they have something to lose.

Maju needs a bit of correction. Prostration is mentioned throughout the Quran.

Thus We have made you [true Muslims -- real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunna  (legal ways)], a just (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad ) be a witness over you.  And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad ) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger).  Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided.  And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem).  Truly, Allah is full of Kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.      Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's ) face towards the heaven.  Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makka).  And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction.  Cerainly, the people who were given the Scriptures (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'ba at Makka in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.      And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction).   "... establish regular prayer, for prayer restrains (a person) from doing shameful and wrong actions. The remembrance of Allah is the greatest with out doubt, and Allah knows what you do" Qur'an 29:45

"I have not created jins and humans but, for my worship"

And for those that doubt the Sunnah (again i am proving this)

"So obey Allah and obey his Messenger..."

Qur'an 64:12

I don't think it reforms Islam, but it deforms Islam.

Why don't people leave a faith they don't like and get on with it.

i.e: Don't be a Christian homosexual bishop. Be a homosexual or a bishop. Because u r trying to do the impossible. For u can not reconcile the Christian text with a practice, that the text openly abhors.

I mean start your own religion or something. For by doing the above u r not following Christianity but your whim. It stupefies me that they can still call their religion Islam. You can not throw away the tenet's of a belief and keep the label.

If i was prostrating behind a couple of fit women with their asses hanging out in the air, i know where my concentration would be.

there are many liberals in turkey believing the religion was corrupted by arbitrary applications of clerics which never existed in first days of islam. they believe that women were pushed backward by men-dominance and should regain their position throughout. Our women can not take part many religious events in the equal terms compared to men, rather they must stand a step back.

reform is not against to someone or something but it is applied when current practice does not work properly.