QuoteReplyTopic: Kashmir Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 00:37
Originally posted by Digvijay
Originally posted by TeldeInduz
Just give it up, Kashmiris do not want to be a part of India. Kashmiris have their own culture, it wasnt developed by India
Kashmir does not have its own culture. It was a centre of Hinduism and there are many places in Kashmir which are mentioned in Puranas. Name Kashmir is also formed from an Indian sage: Kashyap Muni. Kashmir = Kashyap + Mer (Mountain) i.e literally the mountain where sage Kashyap worships.
Been through this before. Kashmir comes from "Ka" and "Shimeer" - dessicated water.
Kashmir is the home of "Kashmiri Pandits" who have been living in Kashmir for thousands of years. First Prime Minister of India, Nehru, was a Kashmiri Pandit. They owned pretty much all the land in Kashmir and were extremely rich businessmen. After the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits at the hands of Muslim terrorists, many pandits have been forced to vacate there large estates. This is akin to what China has done to Tibet, i.e kicked out the local buddhist culture by driving out all the buddhist tibetans.
Kashmiri Pandits have always been a minority in Kashmir. The percentage has not changed since partition and has slightly increased compared to Muslims, which suggests more Kashmiri Muslims have been killed than "Pandits".
But do not worry days are not far when the Pakistan occupied kashmir (POK) would cease to be in Paki control.
Lol!! Hardly, there's no violence in Azad Kashmir.. All the violence is on your side. Even the Indian Kashmiri population are hoisting Pakistani flags now!!
And do not forget that it was the folly of our first prime minister, Nehru , which allowed the creation of POK. General Thimayya had routed the pakistani invading army from most of Kashmir and was set to retake muzaffarabad etc, but Nehru stopped him because he took the matter to UN. Thimayya was very upset and nursed this grievance till he went to his grave that he was not allowed to drive out paki invaders from all of kashmir.
-Digs
Nehru went to the UN under Article 35 after being convinced by Mountbatten. He ended up with a string of UN resolutions against him, and a plebiscite to be arranged, as well as a comment by the British delegate at the UN that Pakistan was in no way involved with the tribesmen joining with the Poonch resistance in Kashmir.
Even the commisioner in the
video I sent the link of says that Indian Army is committing these
atrocities. It's a long video, but about in three quarters the way
through. Militants also intimidate people, but the militants themselves
are Kashmiri people at least, fighting I guess for what most Kashmiris
want.
No. pakistani sponsored terrorists have etnically cleansed kashmiri
brahmans from Kashmir. Close to 500,000 kashmir pandits have been
forced to leave kashmir because of these pakistani/arab/al qaeda
terrorists.These claims of Kashmiris fighting a war is all nonsesne. What is happening in Kashmir is just paki sposnored terrorism.
No it can't be shoved aside. You know what
happened in East Pakistan back in 1971 when Pakistan allowed these
independence parties to run. There is not a problem with independence
parties running as such, like in Balochistan, but until the dispute is
resolved there can be no completely autonomous region of Kashmir,
because this would end in strategic defeat for Pakistan. The Indus
rivers pass through some of the regions of Kashmir and it can be used
politically if the Kashmiris who become independent, ask Pakistan Army
to leave and then are invaded by Indian Army troops. That sort of
situation has to be avoided. Balochistan already has independence
parties running. Pro Pakistan parties are quite popular in Azad
Kashmir, even against independents.
POK will be India's soon, despite the presence of Pakistani army
(Paki army has lost four battles to Indian army in last 60 years or
so).
I think you're missing the point here, elections in
Indian occupied Kashmir must be within the Indian constitution, so any
party that participates must do so within those rules, which
include not seeking independence. Hizb actually stated this and didnt
participate because they dont want administration of Kashmir, they want
its independence at least from India. If you look at Azad Kashmir, you
have the same situation where independence parties dont/arent
allowed to compete, but there is no violence as such there, and people
do vote in pro Pakistani parties.
There is no Azad Kashmir. It is Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. And
no matter how hard you try you cannot convince anyone that India is
occupying kashmir. Kashmir was, is and will remain Indian.
Just give it up, Kashmiris do not want to be a part of India. Kashmiris have their own culture, it wasnt developed by India
Kashmir does not have its own culture. It was a centre of Hinduism and
there are many places in Kashmir which are mentioned in Puranas.
Name Kashmir is also formed from an Indian sage: Kashyap Muni.
Kashmir = Kashyap + Mer (Mountain) i.e literally the mountain where sage Kashyap worships.
Kashmir is the home of "Kashmiri Pandits" who have been living in
Kashmir for thousands of years. First Prime Minister of India, Nehru,
was a Kashmiri Pandit. They owned pretty much all the land in Kashmir
and were extremely rich businessmen. After the ethnic cleansing of
Kashmiri Pandits at the
hands of Muslim terrorists, many pandits have been forced to
vacate there large estates. This is akin to what China has done
to Tibet, i.e kicked out the local buddhist culture by driving out all
the buddhist tibetans.
But do not worry days are not far when the Pakistan occupied kashmir (POK) would cease to be in Paki control.
And do not forget that it was the folly of our first prime minister,
Nehru , which allowed the creation of POK. General Thimayya had routed
the pakistani invading army from most of Kashmir and was set to retake
muzaffarabad etc, but Nehru stopped him because he took the matter to
UN. Thimayya was very upset and nursed this grievance till he
went to his grave that he was not allowed to drive out paki invaders
from all of kashmir.
As for the loyalties of Kashmiris in Indian Kashmir, you can see where they lie even from an Indian article.
Kashmir mobiles ring in Pak tunes Aarti Tikoo [ 27 Sep, 2004 1530hrs ISTTIMES NEWS NETWORK ]
RSS Feeds| SMS NEWS to 8888 for latest updates
SRINAGAR: This is infiltration no one will be able to check. For it cant be seen, and comes over virtual borders. This is not terrorism, but has the potential to turn into an ugly issue of territorial loyalty.
In Kashmir, where people find the National Anthem, Jan Gan Man, unfamiliar, Pakistani national anthem, Pak Sarzameen Shadhbaan, has become a favourite.
So much so that, Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited (BSNL) mobiles in Kashmir are buzzing with Pakistani national anthem ringtones.
School kids, college-goers and Kashmir University students have their phones playing their favourite tunes that have come all the way from Pakistan.
"I received it from one of my friends in Srinagar," Feroz Ahmad, a professional in his 20s told Times of India .
In turn, his friend received it from his friend. But the ringtone actually came from the people who have friends and relatives in Pakistan.
"It has become a long chain and it is demanded by friends. I too have sent this ringtone to at least one dozen friends," Majid says.
Pak Sarzameen Shadhbaaan is a well-liked in Kashmir as against the National Anthem, says Aaftab Wani, an unemployed youth.
Aaftab throws light on the reasons to this peculiarity. One, in Kashmir, the National Anthem was never taught to students in schools or colleges. Two, the hatred for India, which is growing ever since 1947, that finally resulted in militancy in 1989-90. Three, the natural love for Pakistan. People in Kashmir feel closer to the theocratic nation -- demographically, geographical and religiously. "It has been like that ever since 1947. We saw and knew more of Pakistan in more than one ways. We used to hear Pakistan Radio or BBC instead of All India Radio ; we know names of Pakistani states, their daily temperatures and cricketers," Aaftab says.
He adds, "In 1990, when insurgency erupted in Kashmir Valley, people set their watches half an hour behind Indian time so as to match the Pakistani time."
"We still feel as a natural supporter of Pakistani Cricket team," says 60 years old Aslam Beig of Baramulla.
Even now, Pakistan's Independence Day is celebrated by hoisting green flags around and August 15 - India's Independence Day is marked as Black Day, he points out.
Besides, there are five Pakistani TV channels Geo , Q , Ary Arynews and PTV currently running through cable network in Kashmir.
"The latest trends in outfits, make-up and other things are adopted here because we feel part of the Muslim society in Pakistan," says Naseema, a Kashmir University student whose wardrobe is full of Pakistani salwaar kameez.
Ali Mohammad, a taxi driver, however says, "This does not mean Kashmiri people want to accede with Pakistan. People just feel closer to Pakistan."
SRINAGAR, India (AFP) - A strike protesting against a visit by India's president to Indian Kashmir shut much of the region for a second day, while four soldiers were reportedly hurt in a rebel attack.
Streets in Indian Kashmir's main city of Srinagar were virtually deserted as shops, banks, businesses and schools closed in protest over President Abdul Kalam's two-day visit, and most traffic was off the roads on Saturday.
Other parts of the state were also hit by the strike called by the hardline wing of the separatist alliance Hurriyat and backed by the powerful Islamic rebel group Hizbul Mujahedin, which is battling New Delhi's rule in the Muslim-majority region.
Security was tight for Kalam's visit. Police reported four soldiers were injured when militants attacked an army convoy south of Srinagar on Saturday with grenades and rifle fire, police said.
Kalam arrived Friday in Srinagar to attend celebrations marking the diamond jubilee of Indian Kashmir's top court and meet government officials and students.
Hurriyat said it had "nothing personal" against Kalam, who is Hindu- majority India's third Muslim president.
But the group said it called for the protest shutdown as Kalam holds the post of "supreme commander" of India's armed forces which it accuses of "committing human rights abuses."
New Delhi says it probes charges of abuses and punishes those found guilty.
On Friday, Kalam urged that civilians in Indian Kashmir be given "special security" if they want to become involved in New Delhi's fight against the 17-year-old insurgency.
Rebels often target people they suspect of helping Indian troops.
The insurgency has left more than 44,000 people dead by official count and at least double that number by the separatists' tally.
So your telling me you don't know how it works? You have a few bastards tdo wrong things, which is present in any army, not only India's/ Then the separatists exploit it as full as they can, start telling peopl, "That guy over their runs the army, you know, the one that'ordered' those people to do wikid things? The one that is 'oppressing' our people and is responsible for the deaths of our brothers?" followed by the peer pressure of actually doing it? Let's face it, if some of those shops remained open (some not all) then the owners would hav been labbelled as traitors to Jammu and Kashmir and later beaten up.
Even the commisioner in the video I sent the link of says that Indian Army is committing these atrocities. It's a long video, but about in three quarters the way through. Militants also intimidate people, but the militants themselves are Kashmiri people at least, fighting I guess for what most Kashmiris want.
Do you have any idea how strikes in India work?
And don't give me that BS in the post before about how the parties cant run. Pakistan is fully stopping people from expressing their free will. Would it happen in the UK? They even have scum like the BNP allowed to run, Pakistan can't allow parties that want to leave the country to run? I mean, its obvious they want to leave. It's only their free will that is being oppressedd i guess? That can be shoved to one side cant it?
No it can't be shoved aside. You know what happened in East Pakistan back in 1971 when Pakistan allowed these independence parties to run. There is not a problem with independence parties running as such, like in Balochistan, but until the dispute is resolved there can be no completely autonomous region of Kashmir, because this would end in strategic defeat for Pakistan. The Indus rivers pass through some of the regions of Kashmir and it can be used politically if the Kashmiris who become independent, ask Pakistan Army to leave and then are invaded by Indian Army troops. That sort of situation has to be avoided. Balochistan already has independence parties running. Pro Pakistan parties are quite popular in Azad Kashmir, even against independents.
Look accross the border. How many Separatist parties are there in Jammu and Kashmir? But in Pakistan the Kashmii's are supposed to have Autonomy. It looks like this autonomy is wrapped up 10 layers of censorship.
I think you're missing the point here, elections in Indian occupied Kashmir must be within the Indian constitution, so any party that participates must do so within those rules, which include not seeking independence. Hizb actually stated this and didnt participate because they dont want administration of Kashmir, they want its independence at least from India. If you look at Azad Kashmir, you have the same situation where independence parties dont/arent allowed to compete, but there is no violence as such there, and people do vote in pro Pakistani parties.
SRINAGAR, India (AFP) - A strike protesting against a visit by India's president to Indian Kashmir shut much of the region for a second day, while four soldiers were reportedly hurt in a rebel attack.
Streets in Indian Kashmir's main city of Srinagar were virtually deserted as shops, banks, businesses and schools closed in protest over President Abdul Kalam's two-day visit, and most traffic was off the roads on Saturday.
Other parts of the state were also hit by the strike called by the hardline wing of the separatist alliance Hurriyat and backed by the powerful Islamic rebel group Hizbul Mujahedin, which is battling New Delhi's rule in the Muslim-majority region.
Security was tight for Kalam's visit. Police reported four soldiers were injured when militants attacked an army convoy south of Srinagar on Saturday with grenades and rifle fire, police said.
Kalam arrived Friday in Srinagar to attend celebrations marking the diamond jubilee of Indian Kashmir's top court and meet government officials and students.
Hurriyat said it had "nothing personal" against Kalam, who is Hindu- majority India's third Muslim president.
But the group said it called for the protest shutdown as Kalam holds the post of "supreme commander" of India's armed forces which it accuses of "committing human rights abuses."
New Delhi says it probes charges of abuses and punishes those found guilty.
On Friday, Kalam urged that civilians in Indian Kashmir be given "special security" if they want to become involved in New Delhi's fight against the 17-year-old insurgency.
Rebels often target people they suspect of helping Indian troops.
The insurgency has left more than 44,000 people dead by official count and at least double that number by the separatists' tally.
So your telling me you don't know how it works? You have a few bastards tdo wrong things, which is present in any army, not only India's/ Then the separatists exploit it as full as they can, start telling peopl, "That guy over their runs the army, you know, the one that'ordered' those people to do wikid things? The one that is 'oppressing' our people and is responsible for the deaths of our brothers?" followed by the peer pressure of actually doing it? Let's face it, if some of those shops remained open (some not all) then the owners would hav been labbelled as traitors to Jammu and Kashmir and later beaten up.
Do you have any idea how strikes in India work?
And don't give me that BS in the post before about how the parties cant run. Pakistan is fully stopping people from expressing their free will. Would it happen in the UK? They even have scum like the BNP allowed to run, Pakistan can't allow parties that want to leave the country to run? I mean, its obvious they want to leave. It's only their free will that is being oppressedd i guess? That can be shoved to one side cant it?
Look accross the border. How many Separatist parties are there in Jammu and Kashmir? But in Pakistan the Kashmii's are supposed to have Autonomy. It looks like this autonomy is wrapped up 10 layers of censorship.
Well why Kashmir, I ask..... Do u seem to say that kashmir has a different culture, so is with every single state of India even more antique than kashmir itself...What has kashmir acheived ..nothing over the 5000 year of its history but consider with other Indian states they have eveolved a classical dance forms, rich literature, and a few classical languages... SO the argumetn that being diffeent culture doesnt support ur argument for an independeat kashmir... 5000 years of Kahmiri hisoty has been drencehd in the Vedic culture and a few centuries back a fanantic muslims emperor conmvetd them to muslimsm, so Islam is just 400 and that too not completley converted the state.....That doesnt deter the muslims fanatics to demand a seperate country......Now the OWrld understands the slamic way....why do u fool people thaen why it is that Kahmiri people want separate country for themselves... It is plane and simple that becoz they are muslim they demand a country..This has been the case with the very existence of Pak and Bangladesh.... Now with Kashmiri the so called aspiration whcih are infact nothing but a small effrot otwards the larger picture of Islamising the entire world and converting the infedl world to islam...thas the reason behind it... Islam is the inspiration nothing more...... U talk abt heaven on Earth, hypocriys is waht I term that too be, The n native place is the heaven for any individual, And what next..after kashmir, Anuj kumar seem to act like a scholar, but he is like gandhi a person who is not connected with reality a Utopian, which is only dangerous than anything rewarding... What next after kashmir, does ur muslims Borthers will back off, I dont know when are u going to be out of ur suicidal world....... Next would be Uttar Pradesh and then would be the isalmised parts of North Eastrn..... thats the way Islam goes....
Just give it up, Kashmiris do not want to be a part of India. Kashmiris have their own culture, it wasnt developed by India They even go on strikes when Indian politicians visit them. It's clear who the Kashmiris side with.
SRINAGAR, India (AFP) - A strike protesting against a visit by India's president to Indian Kashmir shut much of the region for a second day, while four soldiers were reportedly hurt in a rebel attack.
Streets in Indian Kashmir's main city of Srinagar were virtually deserted as shops, banks, businesses and schools closed in protest over President Abdul Kalam's two-day visit, and most traffic was off the roads on Saturday.
Other parts of the state were also hit by the strike called by the hardline wing of the separatist alliance Hurriyat and backed by the powerful Islamic rebel group Hizbul Mujahedin, which is battling New Delhi's rule in the Muslim-majority region.
Security was tight for Kalam's visit. Police reported four soldiers were injured when militants attacked an army convoy south of Srinagar on Saturday with grenades and rifle fire, police said.
Kalam arrived Friday in Srinagar to attend celebrations marking the diamond jubilee of Indian Kashmir's top court and meet government officials and students.
Hurriyat said it had "nothing personal" against Kalam, who is Hindu- majority India's third Muslim president.
But the group said it called for the protest shutdown as Kalam holds the post of "supreme commander" of India's armed forces which it accuses of "committing human rights abuses."
New Delhi says it probes charges of abuses and punishes those found guilty.
On Friday, Kalam urged that civilians in Indian Kashmir be given "special security" if they want to become involved in New Delhi's fight against the 17-year-old insurgency.
Rebels often target people they suspect of helping Indian troops.
The insurgency has left more than 44,000 people dead by official count and at least double that number by the separatists' tally.
A new government has taken power in Pakistani-administered Kashmir after elections which the opposition parties claimed were rigged.
Sardar Attiq Ahmed Khan, head of the All Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Conference (AJKMC), was sworn in as prime minister on Monday.
He replaces outgoing prime minister Sardar Sikander Hayat Khan.
The new prime minister took his oath in a ceremony held at the ruins of the last year's devastating earthquake.
The quake killed 73,000 people and made about three million people homeless.
Mr Khan said his government's priorities would be to work "to reconstruct the earthquake affected areas, rehabilitate the people made homeless because of the quake and to help achieve the freedom of Indian occupied Kashmir and its union with Pakistan".
The BBC's Zulfiqar Ali in Muzaffarabad, capital of Pakistani-administered Kashmir, says the region formally has an autonomous status, with its own constitution, flag, parliament and Supreme Court.
But our correspondent says many local politicians complain in fact it is largely governed by Islamabad.
Barred
The AJKMC was formed in 1932 and is Kashmir's oldest political grouping.
It gained power by winning 31 seats in the vote earlier this month for the 49-seat assembly, the lower house of a two-chamber legislature.
The religious parties - which were widely acknowledged for their relief efforts in the earthquake period - did not perform well.
Almost 17 pro-Pakistan groups and more than 360 candidates took part in the elections.
But more than 50 pro-independence candidates were barred after they refused to support a mandatory rule that all parties must support the idea of all of Kashmir joining Pakistan.
Our correspondent says it is the first time in the recent history of Pakistani-administered Kashmir that all the opposition parties have claimed the elections were rigged.
Reason why all the opposition parties can claim this now is because of the political freedom all the parties enjoy, not to mention the press. The elections in Azad Kashmir were monitored by Pakistani as well as international observers, who watched the vote count. Pro independence parties cannot be allowed to compete until the Kashmir situation is sorted out across the border. Besides this, the Kashmiris can change the constitution if they like.
Shown in green is the region under Pakistani administration. The dark-brown region is the Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh under Indian administration, while the Aksai Chin is an area of Kashmir acceeded to China by Pakistan that's under Chinese administration.
I have one question: In some regions of Kashmir, it is completely inaccessable, due to poor transportation systems. Why is this? Is it because of the terrain?
It's inaccesible because there's a war going on, and some regions are just simply inhospitable, like Siachen and other areas. Lack of development doesnt help either.
Shown in green is the region under Pakistani administration. The dark-brown region is the Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh under Indian administration, while the Aksai Chin is an area of Kashmir acceeded to China by Pakistan that's under Chinese administration.
I have one question: In some regions of Kashmir, it is completely inaccessable, due to poor transportation systems. Why is this? Is it because of the terrain?
Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava Only Unity Can Save the Serb
I dont know if u are connected with the situation of present day India.....
In Kerala Mulsims and Christians account for nearly 42% of the
Population, now u can see the effects of it in the functioning of the
GOVT over there...
A snippet of scuh effects ; madani who was responsible for
Coimbatore Blasts was urged to release by the Kerala Asembly from the
T>N Prison....
And thuis isnt the malabar area is overwhelmingly
populated and the behaviour was clearly evident as early as the Moopla
tiots in Kerala during Khilafat movement of the idot gandhi and his
perceived Mulsim brothers...
Whya they massacred, becoz kalifat in Turkey fell...This is the
reason for the genocide..Such reasons prompt such a cult to massacre...
Utrtar pradesh norther borders adjoining Nepal are heavily
poplated by Muslismm and the recent years has saw Madrasa all over
spranging up and u can see the result of it with increase riots
happening in UP over the last year some 6 or seven riots happened ,
with a signifiant loss of Life including BJP MLA, another ML'a son
which prmpted the MLA inside the assemly in tear begging for a CBI
probe....
North Eastern States fighting for a seperate country is
becoz Religion in North East is Christian..they want a Christian
Republic in naga land..Oncce search in the Web u'll get hold.....
Down the line in 50 years Muslims will be some 40%
if the trends continue....Now can u imagine the situation.....
In some states they will
entirely be in majoritylike in Assam, Keala and few large chunks in
UP....
TIs reality, if u cant see it happening thats wahtexactly Gandhi
and Nehru the so called Visionaries didnt see it either out of self
indulgence... most probably not that they dont know but it was
deliberate with their Utopian viws...
And what next..after kashmir, Anuj kumar seem
to act like a scholar, but he is like gandhi a person who is not
connected with reality a Utopian, which is only dangerous than anything
rewarding...
and watch another 60 000 people die? My main point is that all 4 governments (India, Pakistan, Kashmiri's and Chinese) should take some decisive action to end this now. The point I was trying to make was that way for this to end quickly and without bloodshed is by giving them independance from all 3 countries. Give them a few years, see what happens. If the government fails it backs up our point that the country won't work. If it does work then its up to them.
The other alternatives are either we invade or Pakistan does. Now look in the news. Can you see that happening? Neither country has the balls to take all of Kashmir by force, which is why both have stalled for 60 years.
What angers me is Chinese presence in Kashmir. They simply have no right to be there.
Originally posted by Aarya
Next would be Uttar Pradesh and then would be the isalmised parts of North Eastrn.....
thats the way Islam goes....
Come on, Uttar Pradesh will never become a majority muslim state. All
of a sudden there you must write to the government to convert. They're
taking their own measures to protect themselves. Infact, you could say
they are the middle of our country, its the most populous area in
India. There is no chance that any of the other states will split up.
They all have unity with India (with a few exceptions). The problem is
that parts of Kashmir don't, which makes it easier to pick off bit by
bit like you said.
Well why Kashmir, I ask.....
Do u seem to say that kashmir has
a different culture, so is with every single state of India even more
antique than kashmir itself...What has kashmir acheived ..nothing over
the 5000 year of its history but consider with other Indian states they
have eveolved a classical dance forms, rich literature, and a few
classical languages...
SO the argumetn that being diffeent culture doesnt support ur argument for an independeat kashmir...
5000 years of Kahmiri hisoty has been drencehd in
the Vedic culture and a few centuries back a fanantic muslims emperor
conmvetd them to muslimsm, so Islam is just 400 and that too not
completley converted the state.....That doesnt deter the muslims
fanatics to demand a seperate country......Now the OWrld understands
the slamic way....why do u fool people
thaen why it is that Kahmiri people want separate country for themselves...
It is plane and simple that becoz they are muslim they demand a
country..This has been the case with the very existence of Pak and
Bangladesh....
Now with Kashmiri the so called aspiration whcih are
infact nothing but a small effrot otwards the larger picture of
Islamising the entire world and converting the infedl world to
islam...thas the reason behind it...
Islam is the inspiration nothing more......
U talk abt heaven on Earth, hypocriys is waht I term that
too be, The n native place is the heaven for any individual,
And what next..after kashmir, Anuj kumar seem
to act like a scholar, but he is like gandhi a person who is not
connected with reality a Utopian, which is only dangerous than anything
rewarding...
What next after kashmir, does ur muslims Borthers will back off,
I dont know when are u going to be out of ur suicidal world.......
Next would be Uttar Pradesh and then would be the isalmised parts of North Eastrn.....
thats the way Islam goes....
A new government has taken power in Pakistani-administered Kashmir
after elections which the opposition parties claimed were rigged.
Sardar Attiq Ahmed Khan, head of the All Jammu and Kashmir Muslim Conference (AJKMC), was sworn in as prime minister on Monday.
He replaces outgoing prime minister Sardar Sikander Hayat Khan.
The new prime minister took his oath in a ceremony held at the ruins of the last year's devastating earthquake.
The quake killed 73,000 people and made about three million people homeless.
Mr Khan said his government's priorities would be to
work "to reconstruct the earthquake affected areas, rehabilitate the
people made homeless because of the quake and to help achieve the
freedom of Indian occupied Kashmir and its union with Pakistan".
The BBC's Zulfiqar Ali in Muzaffarabad, capital of
Pakistani-administered Kashmir, says the region formally has an
autonomous status, with its own constitution, flag, parliament and
Supreme Court.
But our correspondent says many local politicians complain in fact it is largely governed by Islamabad.
Barred
The AJKMC was formed in 1932 and is Kashmir's oldest political grouping.
It gained power by winning 31 seats in the vote
earlier this month for the 49-seat assembly, the lower house of a
two-chamber legislature.
The religious parties - which were widely acknowledged
for their relief efforts in the earthquake period - did not perform
well.
Almost 17 pro-Pakistan groups and more than 360 candidates took part in the elections.
But more than 50 pro-independence candidates were barred
after they refused to support a mandatory rule that all parties must
support the idea of all of Kashmir joining Pakistan.
Our correspondent says it is the first time in the
recent history of Pakistani-administered Kashmir that all the
opposition parties have claimed the elections were rigged.
That would work for me in the most parts. I do not like the idea of peace keeping forces. Where wouldthey come from? Certainly not China, USA is strained for forces, the British would object to reentering the country, Russia favours India etc
Also, peace with Pakistan wouldnt cut the size of our military. We also have China to worry about, the country that altough people forget expeanded its borders very recently and is still trying.
I have been thinking about the following idea for some time now:
1) Free the border of any constraint (end to terrorism needed first) 2) Unify Kashmir in an administrative sense. They run themselves however all matters of security and defence are taken up by the country which controlled the land at the time. 3) Subsidise all tuition fees and lower business tax in the entire state, therefore trying to recover it's economy.
That will (like stated by the previous poster) thus create peace, meaning both countries can end this and carry on developing South Asia.
Obviously this plan will not be implemented for the forseeable future.
I have heard of this plan several times as its been proposed in the peace process b/w the two countries however I doesnt seem practical and would not really solve any problem. The prevailing tension, confrontation, and competition would still continue much after that, which is why many believe it to be a stop-gap or temporary break from the current state of insurrection. The issue of an independent Kashmir wouldnt be feasable either from an economic standpoint and the two rivals would then begin using the nation as a proxy location(end result being no diminishment of tension), furthermore, there is no real precedent for an independent Kashmir per se. A final demarcation seems to be only 'real' solution to the Kashmir issue. Within that final demarcation the aspirations of the Kashmiri people must be ascertained according to and as envisioned by the 1948 United Nations Plan. I dont see why the UN cant send a peace force in now alongside the armed forces of the respective countries(India, Pakistan). There, they would help bring some normalcy back to Indian-occupied Kashmir where the violence, insurrection and attrocities are taken place( the UN is currently in Azad Kashmir due to the devastating earthquake of October 8, albeit in small numbers & in a non-military humanitarian role). This would have to be a bold decision on the part of both countries (with Pakistan dropping its claim to all of Kashmir - mainly Jammu, lower Ladahk, and India relinquishing control of the territories north of Chenab(which would act as the new border in this denslely populated part) and the region of Baltisitan whose natural affiliations are with the contagious regions of Pakistan. The end result would be beneficial for both country. India would have a more stable border, holding onto territories more homogenously contagious with its country and be able to remove its estimated 600,000 troops out which is a big drain on funds which could be better spent elsewhere and the same would be true for Pakistan, in that it would gain a stable border on the east, final closure to its stand on Kashmir, and no longer require to invest so heaviliy in military and nuclear arms, also spenting it in other badly needed social sectors. Again, i would reiterate, the establishment of a properly demarcated border b/w these two countries would usher in an era of peace, tranquility and respectful co-existence between these two traditional rivals(something that has excaped both countries since their independence) and allow them to focus on more pressing issues at hand. Failure to solve this issue, will only escalate the situation further and further until a 'spark' does eventually take place, and then God forbid, all 'hell' (pardon my french!) breaks loose.
I have been thinking about the following idea for some time now:
1) Free the border of any constraint (end to terrorism needed first) 2) Unify Kashmir in an administrative sense. They run themselves however all matters of security and defence are taken up by the country which controlled the land at the time. 3) Subsidise all tuition fees and lower business tax in the entire state, therefore trying to recover it's economy.
That will (like stated by the previous poster) thus create peace, meaning both countries can end this and carry on developing South Asia.
Obviously this plan will not be implemented for the forseeable future.
In regards to Kashmir, the current peace process must go on. Both countries need to realize that war is not the answer especially when Nuclear weopons are possessed by both sides so the result could be catastrophic. the best solution would be for India to follow something similar to the Chenab river plan as envisioned in the 60's whereby areas north of the Chenab river are ceded to Pakistan with Jammu(south of Chenab and lower Ladakh is kept by India. This plan is looked upon as making the most sense, as those parts of Kashmir north of the Chenab share more in common with the territorial integrity(communication, linguistic, cultural and religiously) with Pakistan. Though Jammu would be left in India, territorily seperate from its natural affinity, it could act as a major trade hub b/w the two new and now friendly borders of the now peacfeful neighboors plus the district has a sizeable Hindu population which would probably prefer staying in India. The border should then be made finalized, with economic and preferential trade agreement and the two nations can truly initiate a peaceful era thereafter. Afterall, the endemic poverty of south asia is so prevelent that many economist believe it would take something like 100 years of peace to fully reverse the trend of chronic poverty seen in India and parts of Pakistan. The move would have to be accepted and binding to Pakistan, reducing tension in the region as well as be binding to india, which could reduce troop levels, and help stabilize a volatile border, thus allowing both countries to work towards other more serious issues and global activities.
In regards to the Sikhs, I think they too will eventually get their own independent homeland or atleast some form of semi-independence as that would be the best way for them to preserve their culture and heritage. At the current rate there are fears that their traditions and culture are gradually fading away and that their province is being gradually overrun by non-Sikhs thus reducing their population over a period of time a cause of great concern for the Sikh community. They will have to be given a chance to preserve their language and culture, and it would be a shame to see such a people simply 'washed'/'diluted' away.
Anuj, U call it Islamic culture....
In this forum visit the Iranain threads and u would know
from the posts about the opinion of the iranians, not even they say it
is Islamic Civilization...But rather they call it Persian and persian
and Islamic has aa hell a lot of Difference....
Dont name anything civilization, if it is so the
African tribal liviing is also to be called a civilization and that
makes a fool of everybody........
Why dont u talk about the genopcided being in process in
Sudan,Nigeria and a persecution process in Malasia of the minorites in
their copuntry, do u feel that it is going to offend the
Muslims....
If truth hurts let it hurt .......damn it
I dont know why the people behave so foolishly ignoring the
facts and masking themselves with illusionary security feeling and
thinking that the problem will go away on its own.
Wake up. Guru nanak has said that " Kaliyug entered India with the coming of Islam"
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