QuoteReplyTopic: Norse tech and the settlement of the Americas Posted: 20-Nov-2008 at 14:23
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
The Scandinavian heritage has already been enough disgraced by the racist ideas of foreigners, mainly German Nazis but apparently also of other nationalities. No need to proceed with it.
This is something that pisses me off no end. The same way Pinguin is pissed of by certain people trying to "claim" American civilizations, I am pissed of by people trying to relate Scandinavians to "Aryan" and Nazi ideologies.
Norse with Swedes and Finns came strongly to Iceland and to America.
As we all know the ONLY 100% proof in paternity cases in front of the justice is the DNA of the accused or suspected father. In the same way we can search possible Vikings in America by using the Y-DNA and mtDNA-tests.
When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with: - Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos) - Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)
How can we explain all this?
With it being complete and utter BS, of course.
Naturally we should at first investigate by DNA, who are the Icelanders. Their most common haplotype give some interesting details: - 36 Eastern Norway - 24 Finland - 12 Northern Norway - 11 Western Norway - 11 Sweden - 6 Iceland [Icelandic], etc….
The second common haplotype:
- 66 Finland - 24 Sweden - 16 Eastern Norway - 13 Northern Norway - 9 Western Norway - 8 Central Norway - 8 Jokkmokk, Sweden [Saami] - 3 Iceland [Icelandic], etc...
When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with: - Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos) - Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)
How can we explain all this?
Easy, post-Columbian admixture. Never heared of Germans and Scandinavians in South America? You would be surprise to discover that since the beginning of colonization, Germans and others have come to live here. So those markers aren't something exotic here at all.
Norse with Swedes and Finns came strongly to Iceland and to America.
As we all know the ONLY 100% proof in paternity cases in front of the justice is the DNA of the accused or suspected father. In the same way we can search possible Vikings in America by using the Y-DNA and mtDNA-tests.
When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with: - Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos) - Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)
Norse came to america, in a great extent, by accident, scholars stated the theory that people, especially those in Asia, came to America, are largely based on the academic studies of geographic aspect, such as movement of current and wind, in another words, not based on the sailing skill of these people,
Norse with Swedes and Finns came strongly to Iceland and to America.
As we all know the ONLY 100% proof in paternity cases in front of the justice is the DNA of the accused or suspected father. In the same way we can search possible Vikings in America by using the Y-DNA and mtDNA-tests.
When searching with Icelandic Y-DNA-Haplotypes, we can find the following surprises – full hits with: - Misiones, Argentina (Guarani/Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Amerindian) - Beni, Bolivia (Moxenos) - Ecuador (Quechua]/Amerindian)
How can we explain all this?
Naturally I have hundreds and hundreds pages more about these recent DNA-connections, DNA-searches and haplotype tests between the indigenous tribes and the old world. Anyway later we must return to Wampu River nad Tuva with a lot of mew surprises.
... The only one who took it seriously was Miguel Serrano, a Chilean Nazi. This one also claimed Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu sent to earth to punish the Jews, and that the Aryans were alien gods who had forgotten their ancestry, while the rest of the humans were local creations. ...
Oh, no!! Miguel Serrano is the more falacious fellow on earth. If people start to believe in his writings, it will end believing in the holed earth, the geomancy of the landscape's names, that Spaniards and Mapuches descend of Gauls, the Hitler was the last prophet and Himmler his priest, in the theory of fire and ice, in the Atlantis, in the holed earth, and you name it.
Norse came to america, in a great extent, by accident, scholars stated the theory that people, especially those in Asia, came to America, are largely based on the academic studies of geographic aspect, such as movement of current and wind, in another words, not based on the sailing skill of these people,
That's right. I also think it was an accident. I am afraid Norse have no idea they reached a new continent. I guess they believed Newfoundland was just an Island off shore Greenland were to get trees to build ships, get some fishing and hunting. And that was it.
Columbus died without realizing where he was either. We had to wait for Americo Vespucci to conceive a new continent. That's why we call it America, and not Ericssonia or Columbia, anyways
Could we please leave the Nazi nonsense? The whole episode is an invention. It was made up by Jacques Machieu, a French collaborator fighting for the SS. He further claimed "Ullman" founded Tiahuanaco, the Aztec and the Incan empires, and that he was known as not only Quetzalcoatl but also as Viracocha, Manco Capac and a bunch of other famous names. The only one who took it seriously was Miguel Serrano, a Chilean Nazi. This one also claimed Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu sent to earth to punish the Jews, and that the Aryans were alien gods who had forgotten their ancestry, while the rest of the humans were local creations. It's not even worth discussing, except from the angle that it's amazing some people are still reading their fantasies.
The Scandinavian heritage has already been enough disgraced by the racist ideas of foreigners, mainly German Nazis but apparently also of other nationalities. No need to proceed with it.
Norse came to america, in a great extent, by accident, scholars stated the theory that people, especially those in Asia, came to America, are largely based on the academic studies of geographic aspect, such as movement of current and wind, in another words, not based on the sailing skill of these people,
2) in year 967, the Viking Ullman Jarl touched ground with Panuco, in the Gulf of Mexico. It is the second arrival, the "last arrival" of the white men for the Mayas.
There are no Mayas in the Pánuco region.
Maybe there are not anymore.
This article is about the Huastec people, whose native language Wastek (Huastec) is a Mayan language. The Huastec inhabit a region of Mexico known as La Huasteca, and neighboring variants of the Nahuatl language are also known as La Huasteca Nahuatl, unrelated linguistically to Wastek.
The Huastec, also rendered as Huaxtec, Wastek and Huastecos, are an indigenous people of Mexico, historically based in the states of Hidalgo, Veracruz, San Luis Potosí and Tamaulipas concentrated along the route of the Pánuco River and along the coast of the Gulf of Mexico. The Huastec people call themselves Teenek, Etc…
Linguists have approximated that the precursor to the language of the Huastecs diverged from the Proto-Mayan language between 2200 and 1200 BCE. Etc…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huastec_people
These affiliated tribes are, according to the investigations of Dr. Carl Hermann Berendt, the following:
1. The Maya proper, including the Lacandons. 2. The Chontals of Tabasco, on and near the coast west of the mouth of the Usumacinta. 3. The Tzendals, south of the Chontals. 4. The Zotzils, south of the Tzendals. 5. The Chaneabals, south of the Zotzils. 6. The Chols, on the upper Usumacinta. 7. The Chortis, near Copan. 8. The Kekchis, and 9. The Pocomchis, in Vera Paz. 10. The Pocomams. 11. The Mams. 12. The Kiches. 13. The Ixils. In or bordering on Guatemala. 14. The Cakchiquels. 15. The Tzutuhils. 16. The Huastecs, on the Panuco river and its tributaries, in Mexico.
2) in year 967, the Viking Ullman Jarl touched ground with Panuco, in the Gulf of Mexico. It is the second arrival, the "last arrival" of the white men for the Mayas.
Sorry, it's nonsense. Invented by French and German Nordicists in the early 20th century. The author of the sites you mentioned should have checked their sources.
Nazis were another amazing myth creators, and they are still influential, I am afraid.
According to “Vocabvlario de la Lengva AYMARA” printed in 1612 in Juli, Peru, huampu (wampu) means a boat.
So? Mapuche, Aymara and Quechua are related languages that share quite a lot of vocabulary. I know that because I am Chilean and I live beside the Andes.
Now, if in Quechua and Mapuche wampu means a boat, it is very likely in Aymara does as well. as a second acception.
Now, by just coincidence it may be possible that in other languages around the world similar words mean boat as well, But that doesn't prove any direct relation at all. There are many similar words in unrelated languages. For instance, Chile meant cold in ancient Quechua, and it is pronounced the same as the english word "Chilly". That's just a coincidence.
Sorry, it's nonsense. Invented by French and German Nordicists in the early 20th century. The author of the sites you mentioned should have checked their sources.
Ullman – they didn't tell that it was a SURNAME but anyway it means Man of Wool or Wollen/Woolly man.
Male names (patronymic) like Ullsson, Eriksson, Gunnarsson, Jonsson, Stefansson, Knutsson, Fjalarsson, Allvason, Ragnarsson etc actually mean son of his father – Fjalrsson = son of Fjalar.
In other words even the Scandinavian surnames are very old – nick names even older:
In most cultures, where confusion might exist between two persons with the same given name, the father's name was used to separate the two individuals. The Latin name for son, filius, thus becomes fils in French, fitz in Norman French, and vich, witz in the Slavic languages. In Ireland, the prefix O' signifies the son of, as Mac or Mc in Scottish names.
In northern Europe the patronymic was indicated by adding the father's given name to -son and -dotter in Sweden, -son and -datter in Danish and Norwegian. http://www.genealogi.se/namneng.htm
Patronymic nomenclature prevailed throughout the country from Viking days and until 1828, when it was banned by law in favor of family surnames as institutions like public education and conscription required that the authorities keep records on large numbers of people. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1085814,00.html
The Vikings didn’t have names, surnames or patronymic? Leif Eriksson was born in Iceland sometime around 960 A.D.. His father, Erik the Red, moved to Iceland when Lief's grandfather, Thorvald, was expelled from Norway for killing a man during a dispute. Of course his firs name was Leif and surname (patronymic) Erik´s son. It was equal in the neighboring countries. In Finnish that man was surely Leevi Eerikinpoika. http://www.cdli.ca/CITE/vikingfamous.htm
Hmm, why did you bring up Ullman then? That name might have travelled to SA anytime during the past 300 years.
Ullman doesn't mean wool man by the way - Ull is an old Scandinavian god. With surname I meant family name, which I do believe was obvious.
---
Anyhow, I checked that up since I found it quite suspicious. And it was. Apparently the whole Ullman episode was invented in the early 20th century: the story also contains Jews tricking Columbus into finding America so they could go there and crush the "Nordic" empire being built up in the Western hemisphere, threatening the Jewish plans of world conquest. Pure Nazi bullcrap, in other words.
2) in year 967, the Viking Ullman Jarl touched ground with Panuco, in the Gulf of Mexico. It is the second arrival, the "last arrival" of the white men for the Mayas. http://www.fileane.com/english/tiahuanaco_oldestcity.htm
Pure Nazi bullcrap, in other words.
Jeees, Stormfront White Nationalist Community: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=171033
... It seems that you know Aymaran, Quechuan and Mapuche/Mapudungun word WAMPU. There is a river in Honduras (Miskito-area) called Rio Wampu. In Indonesia they have one Wampu River more. Yangtze River in China is called as well “Wampu River”.
Can we make any conclusions?
Not many conclusions. Wampu in mapuche and quechua mean canoe. In Aymara mean born in a day of carnival . Besides, "pichi" in Mapuche means small, while in spanish mean pee..
Names repeat across languages.
According to “Vocabvlario de la Lengva AYMARA” printed in 1612 in Juli, Peru, huampu (wampu) means a boat.
Ullman – they didn't tell that it was a SURNAME but anyway it means Man of Wool or Wollen/Woolly man.
Male names (patronymic) like Ullsson, Eriksson, Gunnarsson, Jonsson, Stefansson, Knutsson, Fjalarsson, Allvason, Ragnarsson etc actually mean son of his father – Fjalrsson = son of Fjalar.
In other words even the Scandinavian surnames are very old – nick names even older:
In most cultures, where confusion might exist between two persons with the same given name, the father's name was used to separate the two individuals. The Latin name for son, filius, thus becomes fils in French, fitz in Norman French, and vich, witz in the Slavic languages. In Ireland, the prefix O' signifies the son of, as Mac or Mc in Scottish names.
In northern Europe the patronymic was indicated by adding the father's given name to -son and -dotter in Sweden, -son and -datter in Danish and Norwegian. http://www.genealogi.se/namneng.htm
Patronymic nomenclature prevailed throughout the country from Viking days and until 1828, when it was banned by law in favor of family surnames as institutions like public education and conscription required that the authorities keep records on large numbers of people. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1085814,00.html
The Vikings didn’t have names, surnames or patronymic? Leif Eriksson was born in Iceland sometime around 960 A.D.. His father, Erik the Red, moved to Iceland when Lief's grandfather, Thorvald, was expelled from Norway for killing a man during a dispute. Of course his firs name was Leif and surname (patronymic) Erik´s son. It was equal in the neighboring countries. In Finnish that man was surely Leevi Eerikinpoika. http://www.cdli.ca/CITE/vikingfamous.htm
Hmm, why did you bring up Ullman then? That name might have travelled to SA anytime during the past 300 years.
Ullman doesn't mean wool man by the way - Ull is an old Scandinavian god. With surname I meant family name, which I do believe was obvious.
---
Anyhow, I checked that up since I found it quite suspicious. And it was. Apparently the whole Ullman episode was invented in the early 20th century: the story also contains Jews tricking Columbus into finding America so they could go there and crush the "Nordic" empire being built up in the Western hemisphere, threatening the Jewish plans of world conquest. Pure Nazi bullcrap, in other words.
... It seems that you know Aymaran, Quechuan and Mapuche/Mapudungun word WAMPU. There is a river in Honduras (Miskito-area) called Rio Wampu. In Indonesia they have one Wampu River more. Yangtze River in China is called as well “Wampu River”.
Can we make any conclusions?
Not many conclusions. Wampu in mapuche and quechua mean canoe. In Aymara mean born in a day of carnival . Besides, "pichi" in Mapuche means small, while in spanish mean pee..
that the inventory of sounds human beings can make is relatively limited and that you're therefore always going to find similarities between non-related languages.
On a side note, in Nicaragua there's the Pis Pis River. Does that mean the Ancient Nicaraguans were actually rude Englishmen?
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Topic: Norse tech and the settlement of the Americas
. Besides, "pichi" in Mapuche means small, while in spanish mean pee.. 
