Turkic tribes in Western Gokturk khaganat
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ethnic History of Central Asia
Forum Discription: Discussions about the ethnic origins of Central Asian peoples. All topics related to ethnicity should go here.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8045
Printed Date: 24-Apr-2024 at 07:33
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Topic: Turkic tribes in Western Gokturk khaganat
Posted By: Roberts
Subject: Turkic tribes in Western Gokturk khaganat
Date Posted: 03-Jan-2006 at 15:45
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Which Turkic tribe was the rulling tribe of western Gokturk khaganate? And what other turkic tribes were incorporeted in western Gokturk khaganate? |
Replies:
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 05-Jan-2006 at 22:14
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I think the ruling tribe of the W. Kaghanate was the same family as the original, the Ashina. But I'm not sure. There were probabaly a ton of tribes. Some of the more important ones were probably the Karluqs, Turgish, Tiele, Bulgars, and Khazars. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 03:41
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That's hardly true.Gokturks' father was Huns.Huns' father was Ashinas. Avars(Juan Juans),Huns and Türgishes were incorporeted Gokturks.I know as these ------------- |
Posted By: tadamson
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 05:27
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The Turks as a group/tribe etc appeared as a result of their
revolt from the Ruruan empire (Juan Juan in WG, ruled by an Eastern
group from Manchuria), tradition states that they were iron miners. They were amongst the first steppe people to leave us written records and allow us to determine their language was a Turkish one. The bulk of the Ruruan population were the exsisting Xiongnu tribes (primaraly a mix of Turkish and Iranian speaking groups) - I try to avoid calling them Huns as Western readers then fixate on the Western Huns who were probably related to them. They appear to be descendants of the Tujue and most Turkish historians accept Li Yanshou's theory that the ancestors of the Turks were the mixed Ashina Hu nomads in Pingzhou and Liangzhou areas. The Turks became a strong power after they, under Tumen, defeated the 'Tiele Tribe' and absorbed about 50,000 households in AD 546. nb The Avars were a group of refugees, probably including Ruruan and Hephalite remnants, and not part of the Khaganate. Khazars were even later. ------------- rgds. Tom.. |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 10:38
I don't think the Ashina clan can be traced back to the Xiong Nu Era. Also, it isn't conclusive on how the Xiong Nu and Gokturks were related. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 10:48
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Ashine tribe is,father of all Turkic Tribes ------------- |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 10:56
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There were many clans besides the Ashina. Saying that they were the
"father" of all Turkic Tribes is like saying that Julius Caesar's
family was the father of all Romans, which is not true. The Ashina cannot be traced back earlier than the Juan Juan Era, which was 400 years after the flourshing of the Xiong Nu. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 11:59
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Of course,if we go more back,we can see Proto Turks.But I didnt mean "Ashinas are first Turks".I meant all the Turkic tribes' father is Ashina.Of course there are grandfathers
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Posted By: Turkoglu
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 13:29
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The Gokturks, who originated from the
Ashina (Asena) tribe who were natives of today’s Uygurs (
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Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 13:45
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No, the Saka were not Turkic. They were an I-E group. ------------- |
Posted By: Turkoglu
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2006 at 13:57
Modern Kazakhs (especially the branch known as "Saks") claim descent from the Sakas. The Sakha people of Siberia (Yakuts) also claim descent from a remnent of the earlier Saka people. Additionally, although the evidence is dated and the technology utilized still in its infancy, DNA analysis conducted at the Novosibirsk Institute of Cytology and Genetics has found vKazakhs and Altai people to be the nearest relatives. but probably you are right, i dont claim  -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 11:38
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Saka(Iskit) is the first Turkic tribe.We don't have enough information about them but we know their region was the same as old Turks' (SkyGod).Also,Alper Tunga's epic is Sakas'. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2006 at 11:58
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The Saka nomadic life was different to that of the later Turks. Turks were not known for their tattoos and body decoration, metal (gold) working skills, nor their use of wagons. And it is known that the Parsa, Mada and Parta tribes came to the region of Western Iran from the same area as the Sakas, it is pretty much attested by Assyrian and Elamite records. Another point is that the area the Saka occupied when they defeated Cyrus was in Afghanistan, an area successively home to the Sogdo Bactrian Kingdoms which definately spoke an IE (Iranian) language. There was no mention of Turks anywhere until much later till right before the Gok Turuks took over.
Interesting info, thanks. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 08:14
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Their language wasnt Iranian.There were only some similarities.And also,they had wars versus Persians,Kimmers and Medds. I didnt say "Shaka" is a normal Turkic tribe.Im saying that Shaka was first Turkic tribe.First... Before Gokturks Shakas are coming from Turkistan.Were there any Iranian in Turkistan? ------------- |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 08:25
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Yes they where and also its "Saka" or "Saha" not shaka Am i correct zagros, cyrus? ------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 08:35
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For real,It's "Iskit".Heredot says that they were naming themselves as "Iskit". "Saka" is in Turkish,"Shaka" is English as I know.Because in all of English documants I red,writing "Shaka" ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 10:16
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There were seven Saka tribes. I am sick of debating what language they spoke. This is my final opinion, I believe Turkic origins to be what Tadamson described, I think they came as a wave from the East in early AD and gradually took over. ------------- |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2006 at 15:34
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It is widely believed that the Saka were an Iranian group, not Turkic. Unless you're showing evidence, I think you're just trolling now. ------------- |