• 1620 - a group of Puritan pilgrims, known as the Pilgrim Fathers, arrive to Massachsusetts, founding the first European settlement of New England.
• 1790 - Louis XVI of France signs the Civil Constitution of the Clergy, that abolishes monacate and places the priests under Revolutionary rule.
• 1898 - Marie and Pierre Curie announce the discovery of a new element: radium.

• 1925 - The Communist Party of India is founded, it played some role during indpendence struggle and today it is yet an important minor party with strong presence in Kerala and other states.
  
• 2003 - A major earthquake deastates the city of Bam, Iran.
• 2004 - A major tsunami breaks havoc in the coasts of the Indian Ocean, affecting Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India, Maldivas and Thailand. The effect of the wave reached even to East Africa.

Untill today we have in Poland tradition of giving the people whom we want to honour as present a saber with inscription "Bij Bolszewika"

"Kill Bolschevik".

I dont know why so much people hate the USSR.It wasnt soo bad state as usualy have been represent.It is soo sad for me that it no longer exist

Not only that but it has one of the coolest national athems

Every state has its sins.Some have more sins than others.Also everey state has its achievmant, some are bigger than others.None has sad that Soviets are pure good, but are they pure evil.

Before you say anything else, read this:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/sjk/kolyma.html - http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/sjk/kolyma.html

OK the Soviets screwed over Poland, they almost did the same to Iran in the 20s and 40s (with the British).

That man in your avatar was a mass murderer, he ordered the gassing of Kurds in the 20s. And his country, Britain, has been causing trouble in and around Iran for centuries now.

It wasn' Socialism/Communism that screwed over Poland, it was Stalin and Hitler and other instigators.

This link is only about Kolyma which was known as Arctic Aushwitz. In fact in Kolyma died much more people than in Aushwitz. But Kolyma was only a little part of the Gulag Empire. The small one but the worst one. In other gulag camps one if was lucky could have survive 10 years or even more. In the mines of Kolyma people were not able to survive longer than 2 years. And as my link shows Poles made only little percent of Kolyma victims. If you read this work guys you will find this picture:

Saying that :"Another thing that can't compare between Nazi Germany and Stalin's USSR is that, while Nazis didn't have the slightest humanist ideal, the Soviets did, even if it only served to justify atrocities in many cases" is for me a total BS. Is like saying that before Nazists build concentration camps they were cool. Dont forget that Hitler was a socialist too. He had great ideals. He didnt want even a single german to live in poverty. He wanted to give every german job, good social conditions and Volkswagen (the difference between him and Mussolini was that in Italy it would have been Fiat). Hitler build highways and really improved living conditions of the Germans. The fact that Reds were hiding their genocides behind nice sounding words and widespreaded propaganda which seems to be still effective doesnt change the fact that millions died because of well planned hunger in Ukraine, millions died in Kolyma in such conditions that one who havent seen it wont belive or realise it because its unbelivable. Soviet Socialism or communism, call it however you want, was sponsored by the work of millions slaves who were digging jewels, gold, uranium and other sources in Siberia. It was also (what if often forgotten) sponsored by the slave work of Russian paesants who were producing food and living in the conditions which can be compared to those of the black slaves in the southern states of USA before the civil war.

Zagros said:

I must admit that im not an expert of Iranian or Kurd history. Altough i learn it here in AE forum thanks to Cyrus and other Iranian members.

I dont know anything about the episode in Churchill's life when he ordered to murder Kurd people. I have serious doubts if he did it. But if my avatar really hurts your feelings and if you really insist im ready to change it.

Hitler cause nothing but destruction.

Dont u think that Stalin wanted the same thing for the soviets.

Or the only think he did is staing in kremlin together with voroshilov(as it is presented in the same site) killing people for no purpose(or for fun) eating pork, drinking wine and lauging all the time.

Overaly this site represent the soviets as some baby-eating monsters who care nothing but gold and support ideas like Stalin starved the russians wich make no sense.Even that they say that the numbers of victums are unknow the show exact number of dead.Ofcourse there is truth there .And Stalin definetly is not a saint

BTW there is "a slight "differense between Soviet u. in 30s and in 70s

Here is the footnote from

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHU407A.html - http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHU407A.html  :

He was as ruthless a killer as anyone.

Here is an article: http://zfacts.com/p/255.html - http://zfacts.com/p/255.html

Nazists were national socialists. Thats what nazism means, it is national socialism. And nazists had socialist economic program and were introducing it in Germany.

Whats the difference why someone kills millions of people. What is the difference for the victim if he is named "political opponent" or "subhuman". Words are not important. Most of those "political opponents" didnt even realised that they are political opponents. Communists needed millions of slave labours in Siberia and everyone could have become "political opponent". Stalin said that death of one person is a tragedy but death of million people is a statistic fact.

Some slaves kiss the arses of their masters, others not. Different nations in eastern block were treated in different way. You wont find Bulgarians on the list of nationals that were  being sent to Siberia. Affcourse it doesnt change the fact that Russians and Ukrainians made the most of victims.

Maju imagine yourself being sent to the mines of Kolyma. It is really cold, arctic weather, you dont have really warm cloth, last time when you were eating well was before they arrested you. So you are really really hungry and you feel really cold. It is not that type of hunger or cold that you can imagine Maju but just try. You are forced to work 12 hours a day in that terrible snow and cold. You are also dirty, last hot shower you had months ago, since you were send here you didnt wash yourself. Your teeth are moving, i mean your remaining teeth because untill now you have only few. Guards are forcing you to work hard. If you wont satisfy them they will beat you or even worse, they wont give you any food and you are really hungry. You have no hope. The only hope you can have is that you wont live too long because life is incredible suffering. Everywhere around you people are sick or dieing. You already saw most of the people who arrived here with you dieing. The guards are treating you in the way that you see not much difference between being "political opponent" or "subhuman". In fact they treat and feed their own dogs much better than you. Sometimes for fun they kill prisoner, just to show the rest that they can. But you dont really notice such event, You can think only about that terrible cold, food and sleep. You are only happy that you are not woman. Women are in worse situation. They are being raped by the criminals who are the henchmen of the guards. You have no chance to become one of them because your a political prisoner and only criminal prisoners recive functions from guards and a little bit more food. Anyway, somtimes there is even no  need to rape them because they are ready to do everything for a little piece of bread.

Now Maju try walking in their shoes and keep talking about humanist ideals of Soviet Union. Death in the nazi gas chamber would be your wish. Treating 1 person in this way, forcing to such suffering is barbarian. What about preparing such hell for millions?

Who says that Soviet Union had sence? The sad thing is that this site is unable to show even small part of the terrible truth. You dont know what is hell until find it.

I want you guys to understand only one thing. You wont build paradise on earth by making hell for millions of people. You wont make paradise on earth by murdering millions of people. Totalitarian states of Germany and Soviet Union proved it better than anything else. Maybe im only a stupid conservative ultranationalist but i belive that every ideals will hit the bottom if they will be based on the suffering and death of people and if they wont respect basic moral or ethic rules.

Both Nazi Germany and Soviet Union didnt respect any of such rules. German ubermansh was over any rules. Communists came to destroy the old rules and to replace them with new. But they replaced them with nothing but pain and blood of innocent people. Both Nazists and Communists brought only suffering and death to millions. And thatswhy Constitution of Poland treats communism, fascism and nazism as similar criminal systems. And in Polish criminal law trying to widespread nazi, comunist or fascist ideology is the same crime.

There was more common between Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia than differences. The biggest difference was ideology but in everything else they were almost same. And both Nazists and Communists considered "other socialists" like for example social democrats as the worst enemy and were imprisoning and killing them. Most of socialists of Russia ended in Siberians gulags.

well, Nationalsocialism IS socialism, if you like it or not, just the rightwing interpretation of it, it's just today that socialism is connected to a leftist movement but it ins't by pure definition, in fact socialism doesn't imply a political direction.

and Mosquito is very right in pointing out the crimes of the Bolshewiks in Russia, but really, it isn't much because they called themselves socialists but because they were opressive dictators like they could equally have styled themselves fascists or national socialists and no one would have noticed the difference. the Soviet Union was not how Socialism/Communism was meant to be.

What practical difference it make you you nationalise property for the "state" or for the "working class" ?

Dont tell me that you belive that night of the long knives happend as the result of "ideologic conflict". Hitler wanted to be one and the only leader of the NAZI party, Roehm was a potential competitor who could have lessened his power and his SA became so strong that could have become dangerous even for Hitler.

socialism is a workers movement that was needed after the adaption of industrialization in the 19th century. saying that socialism is a leftist movement would be like saying every worker is a communist. don't forget the full name of NSDAP (national socialist german workers party).

this is a NSDAP poster from 1932, there are several of this kind but all of them clearly aplly to the working class.

Capitalism->socialism->comunism

Socialism-private property abolished,state control all asperkts in economy

communism-currensy abolished.The money will be used no more, everything is free cuz u prodused with your own hand.

Socialist are more ralistic

Socialdemocrats are capitalist who share some socialist idelogy

THe RAD was the Nazi's substitute of the traditional German Trade Unions, after they had been broken up, banned, their leaders imprisoned or murdered. It basicaly existed to provide the Nazi government with unpaid labour for their war preparations or indeed during the war. To call the RAD "socialist" is  surely a joke.

Originally posted by Mosquito If Nazists werent socialists why did they have socialist program. If i remember it was described by the short sentece: Ein Fuhrer, Ein Reich, Ein Volkswagen!

If Nazists were Socialists, in the traditional meaning of the term, why were they supported by most of Germany's big corporations and industrialists, as early as the mid-twenties. The "Anti-Bolshevik League"of the German industry had formed after WW1, and its membership reads like the "Who's Who" of German economy. As the NSDAP became the strongest right-wing movement in Germany, German industry concentrated their financial support here. I'm sure, the Krupps, the IG Farben etc wouldn't have financed the Nazis if they had anything to fear from them.

In the end they profitted all highly from Hitler's war, as did numerous foreign companies. There has always been the rumour, that Henry Ford, a well known Anti-Semite supported the Nazis during their rise to power.

Nazis needed the capitalists for the war preparations, it was a alliance of necessity, just liekt eh political alliances with countries that were not aryan. and why is the RAD not socialist? is voluntary free labour capitalist? and i fail to see how the RAD was a substitute for trade unions....

Funny that these 'people' then shed alligator tears for people who died in Stalin's labour camps. Reading such comments, and considering that this is what Bolsheviks' 'political opponents' think and indeed, do, makes me sympathise even with such a monster as Stalin. Since violence is the only language they understand, let the bastards have it. 

Don't forget that Hitler and Mussolini started their career as Socialists. Well, a few years later capitalists supported them against the true Socialists, they used the state supervision and planned economy in public finances. (The only opposite: Hitlers plan was called Four Year Plan, plans of Stalin were Five Year Plans.)

Hitler was NEVER a Socialist. Mussolini was, at some point, but he switched sides.

Well, a few years later capitalists supported them against the true Socialists, they used the state supervision and planned economy in public finances. (The only opposite: Hitlers plan was called Four Year Plan, plans of Stalin were Five Year Plans.)

After the great depression, EVERYBODY adopted the aspects of Soviet economics, such as state supervision and planning, since they saw that the USSR was not affected by the Great Depression. Turkey had 5 year plans too, were they Socialists as well?

Before the war Bulgaria had a living standard, roughly the same as Greece's. They endured Nazi devastations, a bloody civil war and after just 20 years of democracy were light years ahead of us. After 1945 East and West Germany had an equal start, same goes for North and South Korea. Can you even dare to compare the East and West, North and South? Why am I wasting my time telling you this? Everyone knows that democratic countries are more prosperous than totalitaric.

Communism is much closer to Nazism, than it is to democracy. And it's not surprising, Nazism derives from Communism. NO LENIN - NO HITLER, remember that.

The most prosperos state in 30s,40s and 50 was the Soviet Union.In 60s and 70 Bulgarian living standart was better than Greece's.West Germany resived a great finacial help grom the west so that she recover quicly and to be used as a border with the communists

              usa         germany         uk         &nbs p; france          soviets      japan

1912     100         100                 100               100              100          100

1920    122          59                   92                 70                 12              176

1926    156      ;      90                78                  129               100         &nb sp; 264

1935    140             116               107                106               533          457

1936    171      127                    119              116                 693         &nb sp; 483

1937    185         &nb sp; 138               128               123                772         

138       143           149          117                114          857                 552      

This is the production idecses (1912=100)

This is one of many false statements you made in your post Beylerbeyi. But thisone is the easiest to check without the need to start separate discussion. Polish women recived full rights in 1918 - in the nazist white corrupt and however else you want to call it - Poland.

And i agree with our friend Bulgarian. Gentlemen dont discuss the facts.

Huh cant edit my post!

The last year is 1938 not 138 and the word grom is actualy from

My dear Maju, i know that you have your ilussions but this what you said is a complete nuissence:

Do you know are kolkhozes and sovkhozes were? Do you realise what standart of life Russian paesants had in those stateowned farms, comparing it to their lifestandart before collectivisation? Do you realise that they were some kind of slaves and were not even allowed to leave their villages without special permissions?

Before collectivisation (which in fact cannot be described in other words than as criminal act) paesants had much better living conditions. I dont know exact numbers but it wasnt the class "of big landowners". I would say that rather medium landowners.

The kolkhozes and sovkhoses introduced in russia mass slavery and it makes no difference if the slaves had tractors or not.

The end of Soviet Union marks the same year WORLD WIDE WEB introduced...

Internet brought the end of the Soviet Union.

In the 80s the soviet military and nomenklatura knew the extend to which internet would reach...so they come to the conclusuion that a totaliterian regime in the internet age is impossible..

I think Internet brought the Soviet Union down

Originally posted by Mosquito quoting and editing posts is impossible here

I know, it's the left-wing mafia on AE, stopping you from doing so.

Seriously, both Imperator and I have looked into it and can't find the reason. Thus, my apologies.

Yes. Nazi Germany also had its lights and shadows. Nazi Germany can be criticised as much as USSR....

It is almost impossible to describe how much positive energy nazism freed in the german society. And how much hope it gave to the German people.

And there were millions of people all over the world who admired Nazists. Just like the communists from all the world, the nazists, fascists and others similar to them were uniting themselves into one camp. This is similar untill today that neocommunists like you and Beylrebeyi and the neonazists from many countries are allies and sing the same songs with one voice.

It is also sad that you ignore what Bulgarian said. I mean the fact that your posts and posts of people similar to you are an insult and desacration of all the victims of communist regimes in USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Poland, Hungary, Ukraine, Baltic States and other countries which suffered communism.

And affcourse you are wrong again. USSR killed more people than Nazi Germany, Stalin and Mao are higher on the list of top murderers in history than Adolf. As for the pretext of killing you are wrong again. If i remember well on the order to murder polish officers in Katyn was suchstatement "being polish, therefore enemy of the state".

China is a different story from The USSR,mixcoaltl..

It is not completely totaliterian...In china they have private farms for decades,but soviet people were still discussing to privatize or not to privatize even when the USSR was collapsing.Plus China has already opened up its economy in 1978...

I think internet will also keep pushing the chinese dominant class for reform

Nobady know how much people die during the undustrialization of Peter because its far alay in history and no evedense has survuve until today.

Soviets maneged to do three industralization.

1 After 5 years of devastating civil war almost all of the tsars industruy had been lost.The country was in choas and ruins.There was virtualy no production.after only 13 years you a undustrial power

2During nazis ocupation of european parts a great industrialization had been made in remote regions behind ural, where there was no even infrastrukture.

3After recapture of the europeans parts all that had been build there was destroyed by the nazis (and the soviets before they leave) had began restoration of the lost factories.

And that thing "they didnt allowed to leave is simply ridiculos because its only describe the 20s and early 30s when the soviets were under "martial law"

Not to mention who maneged to edukate the enourmos unlitered population in the remote regions and central asia

I'm not talking about the 20s and 30s at all, but the 70s to 80s....

and what remote regions in Siberia are you talkign about? those regions were minorities have been forcely resettled to? and what kind of education? that Catherine the great was a man-eating slut and sold America to the US (when the US inf act didn't even yet existed   all that was taught in the USSR, and just because she was of German origin!

but most immportantly to read and write in first place(so that the citzens can read thier prpoaganda posters) and eventualy to get university degree(wich was absolutly free)

Actually Soviets failed even in education. Huge part of soviet population was and still is illiterate. Thats why it was such pain for the Russians when Baltic states decided to leave Soviet Union. You know, the difference between recruit from Latvia or Estonia and recruit from Russia or Belarus or Kazakhstan was that the first one knew the strange and difficult art of reading.....

Im sure this wasnt the reason for that soviets didnt want baltics repuplics to separete but because these regions were most develope region since tsats time and eventualy(as it happens sadly) someone else would want to splint aswell.

Strangly in 1920 around 75% of soviet population was inlitered while in 1939 it is around 0.1%.And eventualy the soviet technician engeneers scientiest, become one of the world bests.You call that a failyre!?Odd

Mosquito: you're overdoing it. It's obvious that Russia is now (and has been for many decades a wholly literate nation with great scientists in most fields). Keep your critics for those things that are truly criticable and try not say falsehoods, please. 

Maju is right this time, Mosquito. Russians are one of the brightest people in the world and their education is also one of the best . They are 100% literate. Keep the nationalistic anti-Russian propaganda nonsence to yourself, we're here to discuss hard facts.

During Stalin The USSR experienced a process of forced industrilazation and urbanization as well.

In fifteen years the urban population incresed from 26m to 56m

The Soviet industrial output ranked the heighest..The annual growt rate was between %15-%22 while most westen countries had to deal with results of new yourk stock exchange crush that took place in 1929.

In 1933 one-third of american workers were unemployed.

Maju,Turkey was never a semicolonial state.It was the Ottoman Empire of 1800s.

I should also add the fact that this industrilazation miracle came at an enormous human cost.

by 1939  more or less 3.6m people were in glugas which refer to forced labour camps...And in order to cut the price,stalin and his lovers  prefered man power to be used instead of machinery...especially for building moscow canal...Thousands of workers died for this canal,which was bombed and destroyed during early german invasion.

And you belive statistics who showed soviets like some pre-historics saveges.

No, today in former republics in central asia  every citizen who is 30+ can read and write while every year the number of the young ones that cant read is increased.

A nation whos population in the 20s havent evere seen a school maneged in 60s to send man in the space and to be one the most technological advansed state in the world.

I wonder what wold be the next funnies think you will trie to crisized

do you mean that they go to school when they are 30 years old?

excerpts from memoirs of polish woman Janina Sulkowska-Gladun who was lucky and survived:

After two days and nights of brutal treatment I was dragged to my "permanent" cell in the women's block of Dubno Prison. Though utterly exhausted, I was proud of defying my tormentors and not betraying our cause. Titov had grown hoarse in shouting and I had even outlasted Vinokur! At last I would be allowed to sleep and return to my senses as the NKVD realized that another 24-hours of interrogation could undo my sanity. I would now be allowed to recuperate--but only enough to undergo further questioning. The method of my captors was such that every night's sleep would be interrupted; prisoners were kept in a state verging on mental and physical collapse. A bright light constantly shone in my cell and any attempt to cover or turn my face from the door resulted in guards beating their keys on the door or the water pipes producing a cacophony. Constant harassment and humiliation were two tools of the NKVD interrogators--starvation, disease and torture were other ones I'd experience.

I spent many nights on a stool beneath a glaring light, at the mercy of an assortment of vicious NKVD interrogators. They were mostly uneducated thugs, impatient, violent, and particularly ignorant about Poland. I heard a story typical of this type of cham [boor], who, when questioned by a victim about the Soviet Constitution, grabbed a bar and beat him about the head screaming, "Here's your constitution!" But their brutality and ignorance was matched by their loyalty, and under Vinokur's short leash, they proved invaluable. Vinokur's secretary and second-in-command was Bronstein while the administrative head was Rachil Geifler, both of them Soviet Jewesses. With Vinokur they would lead the mass panic-murder of prisoners in 1941.

In April a second wave of deportations swept up members of families of people previously arrested or who'd escaped, and tradesmen and farmers. The majority of the estimated 320,000 victims were women and children many of whom would die in transport.

Finally on Sunday night the train set off for a destination that filled every Pole with dread: Siberia. As it steamed out, it was to the sound of hundreds of voices singing Polish hymns and patriotic songs. The train would pick up more prisoners along the way and would be over a hundred wagons long when it left Polish territory. The trip took two weeks under such brutal conditions that the seasoned train commandant (who expressed sadness over the fate of Polish children) committed suicide under a locomotive when the transport finally arrived. Bodies, mostly of babies or the elderly, were discarded through holes. At the end my mother and siblings were thrown off in a field on the steppes and told: "Work--or die!"

Following my family's arrest, my interrogations became more vicious--the anger in Titov and Vinokur now flowed to the surface. They screamed in my face and promised me a death sentence. They paraded tortured friends in front of me whom they would later murder. They kept my in solitary confinement and in a frozen cell. And they tortured me.

One particular session is burned into my memory. It seemed like another dreary night. I was dismissing Titov's predictable questions with my usual shrugs and denials--it was a routine that we both played well. Then Vinokur emerged from the background, twisting my chair close to his face.

"So you don't think I could just kill you like a dog!" he growled.

I sensed this was something more than the usual threats. He narrowed his eyes and a muscle twitched in his cheek. He undid his holster and took out a black revolver. Suddenly I realized he was brushing my cheek, and then my temple with the barrel. I could distinctly feel the click of the trigger and rolling of tumblers. "My God!"--he was playing Russian Roulette against my head.

"Believe, Believe, you Polish bastard!" Vinokur screamed and pulled the trigger. The sound of the hammer exploded in my head--but no bullet came forth. And then he pulled it a second, and then a third time. I shuddered each time. Titov's eyebrows wriggled with excitement as I struggled in my chair and came close to fainting, Then the gun was put away.

Later in my cell, I decided that it was just a game they were playing, and that there were no bullets--but I still would feel sick every time I thought of it.   

A week later I was to experience an unusual and "shocking" method of torture which had been concocted by my tormentors. I became a guinea pig in their advancement of the art of arriving at the "truth." This was their "electric chair." I was taken at night for a regular session. Titov and Vinokur were unusually attentive and asked questions slowly. I returned vague answers. They slowly asked me one more time, and I muttered back. They then looked at each other--and suddenly I was thrown out of the chair by some great force. I found my self on the floor with my right leg twitching and in pain. What had happened? They picked me up and put me back in the seat. I was asked the same question again, which I didn't know how to answer--and once more I was hurled into the air. I shook like a rag doll. The shock was repeated a third time and I started to choke...but the disembodied voice of Vinokur announced that he was satisfied. I was dragged back to me cell. My body felt peculiar but not in particular pain; it took my mind somewhat longer to recover. I was never again subjected to this--but I always looked at my seat for signs of tampering. I could only shake my head at the thought of Titov and Vinokur rigging up the chair with wires and experimenting on me to determine the proper voltage and power to torture--but hopefully not to kill me.

It was also a chair, that in a slower and less dramatic way, inflicted even more excruciating pain. Barely 5 foot 2 inches, my legs dangled like a child's when seated in the interrogation chair. The sessions always lasted through the night during which I was not allowed to eat or go to the washroom. The torture lay in the cumulative effect of having my limbs in suspension with lack of muscular activity and circulation, and the effect was very painful. After several months of repeated sessions my legs and feet were swollen and in pain. And it was most excruciating when I would first stand up from the chair. I never imagined that such pain could result from merely having your limbs dangle.

However I realized that my interrogations at the hands of the NKVD were relatively mild compared to what many were subjected to. Leon Kowal was repeatedly beaten as was Pius Zaleski. Others had needles jammed under their fingernails, hands crushed, testicles burned. Women were routinely raped or kept in cells of freezing water. Women with babies were not given proper food and had difficulty feeding infants, who then would be taken from them. Executions were common.

...and denaing the achivments of the soviets and call them murderes is an insult to the milions of people who supportet the communists and worked hardly to acomplished this.It is all a point of view.

Hmm i dont remember when i said it was happy times in russia in 30 and 40s.It was time of troubles-if there is no troubles there will be no victums and heroes aswell.

I have first hand accounts. I know a guy who was electrician in a mining station in Kyrgystan. he said he was basically unemployed because all he had to do was sittign in his office and waiting for somebody to call in case a bulb was damaged. not to mention he was only one of several such electricians.

that's no point at all. the Czars only ruled up until 1917, at a point when there were only like 7 countries in the world who had major industries at all, and Imperial Russia was one of those, even though it was the last in line, it HAD industry unlike the other countries you mentioned. Russia developed along western lines since Peter the great and you cannot claim Russia would not have industrialized along western lines without giving reason. the peasant unrests of the early 20s century would have hit any governemt, including the Boslhewiks, you cannot say Russia would have been a fully industrialized nation by that tie just because it was ruled by Bolshewiks, they would have been hampered by the same problems that ruined the Czarist government. in fact Russia only became Bolshewik because the german government sent Lenin in a train to St. Petersburg to start a revolution, to say the Bolshewik revolution as the will of the people is a smack in the face of all those people that had to suffer from the results of Bolshewik takeover. the Kronstadt sailors eventually turned against teh Bolshewiks afetr they initially supproted them ebcause they got news from their families that they were supressed by them, and Sverdlov, one of the major figures of the early communists deid from the wounds suffered from an attack by angry workers in a strike in Orel/Oryol. the "internationalist" movement of Communist as you call them, did deport, persecute and kill many minorites of the Russian emprie, such as Cossacks, Germans, Tatars, Poles and others, it was them having to work in Gulags in Siberia and Kazakhstan who "developed" those "remote regions"....