Makkah (Mecca)
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5819
Printed Date: 23-Apr-2024 at 16:49 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Makkah (Mecca)
Posted By: azimuth
Subject: Makkah (Mecca)
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2005 at 04:22
from Encyclopedia Britannica
History
Ancient Mecca was an oasis on the old caravan trade route that linked the Mediterranean world with South Arabia, East Africa, and South Asia. The town was located about midway between Maʾrib in the south and Petra in the north, and it gradually developed by Roman and Byzantine times into an important trade and religious centre. It was known to Ptolemy as Macoraba.
According to Islâmic tradition, Abraham and Ishmael, his son by Hagar, built the Kaʿbah as the house of God. The central point of pilgrimage in Mecca before the advent of Islâm in the 7th century, the cube-shaped stone building has been destroyed and rebuilt several times. During biblical times, the city was ruled by a series of Yemeni tribes. Under the Quraysh, it became a type of city-state, with strong commercial links to the rest of Arabia, Ethiopia, and Europe. Mecca became a place for trade, for pilgrimage, and for poetry festivals.
The city gained its religious importance with the birth of Muḥammad about 570. The prophet was forced to flee from Mecca in 622, but he returned eight years later and took control of the city. He purged Mecca of idols, declared it a centre of Muslim pilgrimage, and dedicated it to Allâh. Since then, the city has remained the major religious centre of Islâm. As the ancient caravan route fell into decline, Mecca lost its commercial significance and has since lived mainly on the annual pilgrimages and the gifts of Muslim rulers.
Mecca remained virtually independent, although it acknowledged the power of Damascus andlater of the ʿAbbâsid caliphate of Baghdad, Iraq. In 1269 it came under the control of the Egyptian Mamlûk sultans. In 1517 dominion over the holy city passed to the Ottoman Turks in Constantinople (now Istanbul). The local city rulers were chosen from the sharîfs, or descendants of Muḥammad, who retained a strong hold on the surrounding area. With the fall of Turkish power after World War I, control of Mecca was contested between the sharîfs and the Âl Saʿûd (the Wahhâbîs) of central Arabia. King Ibn Saʿûd entered the city in 1925, and it became part of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the capital of Makkah mânaṭiq idârîyah.
Under the Âl Saʿûd, a puritanical moral code and law and order were enforced, and the facilities for pilgrims were improved. With the exploitation of Saudi Arabia's oil resources since World War II, Mecca has had a high level of economic development.
-------------
|
Replies:
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2005 at 04:29
some pictures of the city and the Grand Mosque
i'll post more later.
-------------
|
Posted By: oTToMAn_TurK
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2005 at 06:16
i cant wait to perform hajj and step foot in the holy lands. the only place on earth that people from all over the world come together as brothers and sisters wer ur race and culture does not matter and people see you as what you really are. human beings.
i cud not help but realise the shiny whit araound the kabe while the rest of the photo is dull. wats da reason for that?
------------- Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
|
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 10:13
well its the mosque's floor covered with white marble.
and its clear that the saudi government is not doing a good job for the city itself,
sure they are maintaining the mosque but i mean the city has no Green areas, no parks no trees nothing as far as i know.
-------------
|
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 12:52
very beautifull place, hope Inshallah ill be there in the middle ages of my life
------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg -
|
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 13:42
Out of interest, has any of our Muslim members actually been to Mecca and thus can call himself a haji?
------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
|
Posted By: ill_teknique
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 16:20
I haven't yet. Hopefully, in a couple of years. Insha'Allah(swt). But then again i just turned 21 and am still in college.
-------------
|
Posted By: Miller
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 16:34
Originally posted by azimuth
sure they are maintaining the mosque but i mean the city has no Green areas, no parks no trees nothing as far as i know.
|
I am not sure what Saudies are doing to Mecca but forest are not native in that part of the world. Every city needs to have its own distinct character and there is nothing wrong with desert look. Artificially making Mecca look green and a cheap replica of Dallas is not necessarily a good thing
|
Posted By: çok geç
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 17:14
Originally posted by Miller
I am not sure what Saudies are doing to Mecca but forest are not native in that part of the world. Every city needs to have its own distinct character and there is nothing wrong with desert look. Artificially making Mecca look green and a cheap replica of Dallas is not necessarily a good thing |
Azimuth said "parks" and "green areas" and not what you described as "forest"! Common sense, any city needs a park, a green one of course. This will beautify the city and allows for grounds for recreational activies and sports. Afterall, the government is not poor.
------------- D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
|
Posted By: çok geç
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 17:19
Azimuth, there are few parks in the center of Mecca, which is the picture u posted here because of various reasons:
1- the area is very rigid and moutaineous so will be hard for a flat big enough park to be built.
2- it is the center of the city, all lands are owned by people and investors. In fact, the closer to the mosque the higher prices per square meter. It is crazy expensive, so no way the governmetn will buy the land to build just a part in the middle of the city.
Other parks around the city exist.
------------- D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
|
Posted By: ramin
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 17:44
Originally posted by oTToMAn_TurK
i cant wait to perform hajj and step foot in
the holy lands. the only place on earth that people from all over the
world come together as brothers and sisters wer ur race and culture
does not matter and people see you as what you really are. human
beings. | yes, you feel the brotherhood in there. Just to name
an example remember the late 80s when Saudis security officers murdered
caravan of Iranian pilgrims for being Iranian & Shia.
------------- "I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
|
Posted By: çok geç
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 18:50
Originally posted by ramin
yes, you feel the brotherhood in there. Just to name an example remember the late 80s when Saudis security officers murdered caravan of Iranian pilgrims for being Iranian & Shia.
|
Don't twist the truth. My uncle worked for Al Nadwah newspaper in 1987 and all my relatives are resident of Mecca. The fanatic Iranians of that year wanted to marsh for the Iranian revolution and what they called "denouncing the infidels" demonstration with knives and sharp metals. After damaging nearby buses and clashing with the locals of the holy city, they finall clashed with the police and killed couple of them before the police had to end it with opening life fire on them. 85 Saudi policemen were killed? by what? by those fanatics carrying weapons, not wood sticks. Wake up man.
For your information, a year before in 1986, a large quantity of explosives, plastic bombs and weapons were discovered in the luggage of Iranian "pilgrims" arriving in Saudi Arabia for the annual Hajj pilgrimage. Saudi police arrested 100 of the undercover agents sent from Iran.
Finally, stick with the topic at least since you don't even know your information.
P.S: I have the 35 minute video of the interview with them, how do you post it here? I zipped it, still not working.
------------- D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
|
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 18:51
ramin you mean when they came as pilgrims and then started acting like revolting?
destroying cars and making fire in the streets and waving the iranian flags
and stopping many other pligrims from passing which caused many injuries and deaths?
-------------
|
Posted By: oTToMAn_TurK
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 21:37
Originally posted by DayI
very beautifull place, hope Inshallah ill be there in the middle ages of my life |
yee, if u live till then
------------- Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
|
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 21:51
I will donate my hajj money to someone who needs it.just like I donate my kurban money every year
------------- "When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
|
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 21:55
i think many people think that piligrimage should be don at an older age like 50 or even older,
i think it should be done when you can do it and afford it.
i myself went to makkah once when i was 14 in a school trip
it wasnt for piligrim, it was a normal visit which is called Umrah.
people considered Piligrims when they go to makkah in certain time in a year and do what piligrims has to do as per Islam.
-------------
|
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 21:59
Originally posted by erci
I will donate my hajj money to someone who needs it.just like I donate my kurban money every year |
yea sure you can do what you like, but its part of the five pillars of Islam, that a muslim must do Haj once in his life time.
-------------
|
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 22:26
I respect whoever goes there, it's their choice
------------- "When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
|
Posted By: çok geç
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 00:54
Actually it is not something you pay for just to go and circle around the Ka'abah and throw stones. It is actually something you go to to experience unity and equality. Where all people are dressed in simple two white cloth. No wonder that Malcom X has changed his views after his pilgrimate from a fanatic of the Nation of Islam of one race, to join the effort in raising the notion that white and black can live toagher and all races, and revenge is always bad. Malcom X learned in his Hajj, where he sat with the white Albanians, the black Nigerians, the South Asians, the East Asians, the Arab, the Turks..etc
that is an experience that worth paying for Hajj. You don't pay for your Hajj to go around Ka'ba and just throw the stones, you pay to feel it, to experience it, and to have a chance for a rebirth.
------------- D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
|
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 01:02
and by paying we mean pay for your transport, residence and food ( although there are alot of free meals offered there),
as any place you'll visit in the world
and that is not supporting the terrorists as some may strangly think
yea something i knew about recently about that Ottoman castle "Ajyad",
the building that will be built there will be considered "Waqf"
which means any benifits comes from this building will be spent for the service and the maintainance of the Mosque.
-------------
|
Posted By: ramin
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2005 at 21:43
I'm not trying to blame anyone or any place, I hope you know that. What I
heard in Iran may be what really happened over there and you should
know I'm not denying the opposite. I will not elaborate on that,
perhaps because I don't want to trust Iranian regime's statements (just
as much as I don't trust Saudi's government). Even though I read that
they were mostly old men and women (which is very common for Hajj
travelers).
Anyway, I don’t wish to continue on this issue anymore because I don’t
feel comfortable hurting others’ believes. Kabba is Kabba, it’s a holy
place and I don’t want anybody to think I’m standing against it.
Originally posted by azimuth
the building that will be built there will be
considered "Waqf" which means any benifits comes from this building
will be spent for the service and the maintainance of the
Mosque. | Can you really believe that the king will not take a
share from the profit?!
destroying history or censoring and concealing history by reburying its evidences is unacceptable, in any form.
------------- "I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2005 at 16:32
Assalamulaikum...
Mecca or MEkah (in Malay) is a pleasently and peaceful place...
My mother will be there for Hajj this year Insha Allah.... and I am planning to be there for Umrah 2006 or 2007
-------------
|
Posted By: varma
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 03:20
Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple? By P.N. Oak (Historian)
Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly
surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya inscription
found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the Arabian
Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.The text of the crucial
Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside
the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume
known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in
Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:
"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s
reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare
of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost
in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness
of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for
her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in
ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as
on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of
education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya
whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us- foreigners as we
were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose
brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These
scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again
made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred
existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to
preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s
behest."
For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it hereunder in Roman script:
"Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha
Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid
min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan
blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin
Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada
walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana
balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum". (Page 315
Sayar-ul-okul). [Note: The title ‘Saya-ul-okul’ signifies memorable
words.]
A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the following conclusions:
That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern
boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the
first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king
Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia.
1. That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had
succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred
scriptures)) way of life in Arabia.
2. That the knowledge of Indian arts and sciences was imparted by
Indians to the Arabs directly by founding schools, academies and
cultural centres. The belief, therefore, that visiting Arabs conveyed
that knowledge to their own lands through their own indefatigable
efforts and scholarship is unfounded.
An ancillary conclusion could be that the so-called Kutub Minar (in
Delhi, India) could well be king Vikramadiya’s tower commemorating his
conquest of Arabia. This conclusion is strengthened by two pointers.
Firstly, the inscription on the iron pillar near the so-called Kutub
Minar refers to the marriage of the victorious king Vikramaditya to the
princess of Balhika. This Balhika is none other than the Balkh region
in West Asia. It could be that Arabia was wrestled by king Vikramaditya
from the ruler of Balkh who concluded a treaty by giving his daughter
in marriage to the victor. Secondly, the township adjoining the so
called Kutub Minar is named Mehrauli after Mihira who was the renowned
astronomer-mathematician of king Vikram’s court. Mehrauli is the
corrupt form of Sanskrit ‘Mihira-Awali’ signifying a row of houses
raised for Mihira and his helpers and assistants working on
astronomical observations made from the tower.Having seen the far
reaching and history shaking implications of the Arabic inscription
concerning king Vikrama, we shall now piece together the story of its
find. How it came to be recorded and hung in the Kaaba in Mecca. What
are the other proofs reinforcing the belief that Arabs were once
followers of the Indian Vedic way of life and that tranquillity and
education were ushered into Arabia by king Vikramaditya’s scholars,
educationists from an uneasy period of "ignorance and turmoil"
mentioned in the inscription.
In Istanbul, Turkey, there is a famous library called
Makhatab-e-Sultania, which is reputed to have the largest collection of
ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic section of that library is
an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. That anthology was compiled from
an earlier work in A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler
Sultan Salim.
The pages of that volume are of Hareer – a kind of silk used for
writing on. Each page has a decorative gilded border. That anthology is
known as Sayar-ul-Okul. It is divided into three parts. The first part
contains biographic details and the poetic compositions of pre-Islamic
Arabian poets. The second part embodies accounts and verses of poets of
the period beginning just after prophet Mohammad’s times, up to the end
of the Banee-Um-Mayya dynasty. The third part deals with later poets up
to the end of Khalif Harun-al-Rashid’s times.
Abu Amir Asamai, an Arabian bard who was the poet Laureate of Harun-al-Rashid’s court, has compiled and edited the anthology.
The first modern edition of ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ was printed and published
in Berlin in 1864. A subsequent edition is the one published in Beirut
in 1932.
The collection is regarded as the most important and authoritative
anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It throws considerable light on the
social life, customs, manners and entertainment modes of ancient
Arabia. The http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/autolink.php?id=4&script=showthread&forumid=39 - book
also contains an elaborate description of the ancient shrine of Mecca,
the town and the annual fair known as OKAJ which used to be held every
year around the Kaaba temple in Mecca. This should convince readers
that the annual haj of the Muslims to the Kaaba is of earlier
pre-Islamic congregation.
But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It provided a forum for the
elite and the learned to discuss the social, religious, political,
literary and other aspects of the Vedic culture then pervading Arabia.
‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ asserts that the conclusion reached at those
discussions were widely respected throughout Arabia. Mecca, therefore,
followed the Varanasi tradition (of India) of providing a venue for
important discussions among the learned while the masses congregated
there for spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in
India and at Mecca in Arvasthan (Arabia) were Siva temples. Even to
this day ancient Mahadev (Siva) emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara
(Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the
Kaaba.
Arabic tradition has lost trace of the founding of the Kaaba temple.
The discovery of the Vikramaditya inscription affords a clue. King
Vikramaditya is known for his great devotion to Lord Mahadev (Siva). At
Ujjain (India), the capital of Vikramaditya, exists the famous shrine
of Mahankal, i.e., of Lord Shankara (Siva) associated with
Vikramaditya. Since according to the Vikramaditya inscription he spread
the Vedic religion, who else but he could have founded the Kaaba temple
in Mecca?
A few miles away from Mecca is a big signboard which bars the entry of
any non-Muslim into the area. This is a reminder of the days when the
Kaaba was stormed and captured solely for the newly established faith
of Islam. The object in barring entry of non-Muslims was obviously to
prevent its recapture.
As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to shave his head and
beard and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless
sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other
over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic
practice of entering Hindu temples clean- and with holy seamless white
sheets.
The main shrine in Mecca, which houses the Siva emblem, is known as the
Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud. That custom also originates
from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture
by camouflaging it.
According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the Kaaba has 360 images.
Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities among the 360
destroyed when the place was stormed, was that of Saturn; another was
of the Moon and yet another was one called Allah. That shows that in
the Kaaba the Arabs worshipped the nine planets in pre-Islamic days. In
India the practice of ‘Navagraha’ puja, that is worship of the nine
planets, is still in vogue. Two of these nine are Saturn and Moon.
In India the crescent moon is always painted across the forehead of the
Siva symbol. Since that symbol was associated with the Siva emblem in
Kaaba it came to be grafted on the flag of Islam.
Another Hindu tradition associated with the Kaaba is that of the sacred
stream Ganga (sacred waters of the Ganges river). According to the
Hindu tradition Ganga is also inseparable from the Shiva emblem as the
crescent moon. Wherever there is a Siva emblem, Ganga must co-exist.
True to that association a sacred fount exists near the Kaaba. Its
water is held sacred because it has been traditionally regarded as
Ganga since pre-Islamic times (Zam-Zam water).
[Note: Even today, Muslim pilgrims who go to the Kaaba for Haj regard
this Zam-Zam water with reverence and take some bottled water with them
as sacred water.]
Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In
no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably
circumambulate around their deities. This is yet another proof that the
Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic Indian Shiva temple where the Hindu
practice of circumambulation is still meticulously observed.
The practice of taking seven steps- known as Saptapadi in Sanskrit- is
associated with Hindu marriage ceremony and fire worship. The
culminating rite in a Hindu marriage enjoins upon the bride and groom
to go round the sacred fire four times (but misunderstood by many as
seven times). Since "Makha" means fire, the seven circumambulations
also prove that Mecca was the seat of Indian fire-worship in the West
Asia.
It might come as a stunning revelation to many that the word ‘ALLAH’
itself is Sanskrit. In Sanskrit language Allah, Akka and Amba are
synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother. The term ‘ALLAH’ forms part
of Sanskrit chants invoking goddess Durga, also known as Bhavani,
Chandi and Mahishasurmardini. The Islamic word for God is., therefore,
not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appellation retained and
continued by Islam. Allah means mother or goddess and mother goddess.
One Koranic verse is an exact translation of a stanza in the Yajurveda.
This was pointed out by the great research scholar Pandit Satavlekar of
Pardi in one of his articles.
[Note: Another scholar points out that the following teaching from the
Koran is exactly similar to the teaching of the Kena Upanishad (1.7).
The Koran:"Sight perceives Him not. But He perceives men's sights; for He is the knower of secrets , the Aware."
Kena Upanishad:"That which cannot be seen by the eye but through which
the eye itself sees, know That to be Brahman (God) and not what people
worship here (in the manifested world)."
A simplified meaning of both the above verses reads:
God is one and that He is beyond man's sensory experience.]
The identity of Unani and Ayurvedic systems shows that Unani is just
the Arabic term for the Ayurvedic system of healing taught to them and
administered in Arabia when Arabia formed part of the Indian empire.It
will now be easy to comprehend the various Hindu customs still
prevailing in West Asian countries even after the existence of Islam
during the last 1300 years. Let us review some Hindu traditions which
exist as the core of Islamic practice.
The Hindus have a pantheon of 33 gods. People in Asia Minor too
worshipped 33 gods before the spread of Islam. The lunar calendar was
introduced in West Asia during the Indian rule. The Muslim month
‘Safar’ signifying the ‘extra’ month (Adhik Maas) in the Hindu
calendar. The Muslim month Rabi is the corrupt form of Ravi meaning the
sun because Sanskrit ‘V’ changes into Prakrit ‘B’ (Prakrit being the
popular version of Sanskrit language). The Muslim sanctity for Gyrahwi
Sharif is nothing but the Hindu Ekadashi (Gyrah = elevan or Gyaarah).
Both are identical in meaning.The Islamic practice of Bakari Eed
derives from the Go-Medh and Ashva-Medh Yagnas or sacrifices of Vedic
times. Eed in Sanskrit means worship. The Islamic word Eed for festive
days, signifying days of worship, is therefore a pure Sanskrit word.
The word MESH in the Hindu zodiac signifies a lamb. Since in ancient
times the year used to begin with the entry of the sun in Aries, the
occasion was celebrated with mutton feasting. That is the origin of the
Bakari Eed festival.
[Note: The word Bakari is an Indian language word for a goat.]
Since Eed means worship and Griha means ‘house’, the Islamic word Idgah
signifies a ‘House of worship’ which is the exact Sanskrit connotation
of the term. Similarly the word ‘Namaz’ derives from two Sanskrit roots
‘Nama’ and ‘Yajna’ (NAMa yAJna) meaning bowing and worshipping.Vedic
descriptions about the moon, the different stellar constellations and
the creation of the universe have been incorporated from the Vedas in
Koran part 1 chapter 2, stanza 113, 114, 115, and 158, 189, chapter 9,
stanza 37 and chapter 10, stanzas 4 to 7.
Recital of the Namaz five times a day owes its origin to the Vedic
injunction of Panchmahayagna (five daily worship- Panch-Maha-Yagna)
which is part of the daily Vedic ritual prescribed for all
individuals.Muslims are enjoined cleanliness of five parts of the body
before commencing prayers. This derives from the Vedic injuction
‘Shareer Shydhyartham Panchanga Nyasah’.Four months of the year are
regarded as very sacred in Islamic custom. The devout are enjoined to
abstain from plunder and other evil deeds during that period. This
originates in the Chaturmasa i.e., the four-month period of special
vows and austerities in Hindu tradition. Shabibarat is the corrupt form
of Shiva Vrat and Shiva Ratra. Since the Kaaba has been an important
centre of Shiva (Siva) worship from times immemorial, the Shivaratri
festival used to be celebrated there with great gusto. It is that
festival which is signified by the Islamic word
Shabibarat.Encyclopaedias tell us that there are inscriptions on the
side of the Kaaba walls. What they are, no body has been allowed to
study, according to the correspondence I had with an American scholar
of Arabic. But according to hearsay at least some of those inscriptions
are in Sanskrit, and some of them are stanzas from the Bhagavad Gita.
According to extant Islamic records, Indian merchants had settled in
Arabia, particularly in Yemen, and their life and manners deeply
influenced those who came in touch with them. At Ubla there was a large
number of Indian settlements. This shows that Indians were in Arabia
and Yemen in sufficient strength and commanding position to be able to
influence the local people. This could not be possible unless they
belonged to the ruling class.It is mentioned in the Abadis i.e., the
authentic traditions of Prophet Mohammad compiled by Imam Bukhari that
the Indian tribe of Jats had settled in Arabia before Prophet
Mohammad’s times. Once when Hazrat Ayesha, wife of the Prophet, was
taken ill, her nephew sent for a Jat physician for her treatment. This
proves that Indians enjoyed a high and esteemed status in Arabia. Such
a status could not be theirs unless they were the rulers. Bukhari also
tells us that an Indian Raja (king) sent a jar of ginger pickles to the
Prophet. This shows that the Indian Jat Raja ruled an adjacent area so
as to be in a position to send such an insignificant present as ginger
pickles. The Prophet is said to have so highly relished it as to have
told his colleagues also to partake of it. These references show that
even during Prophet Mohammad’s times Indians retained their influential
role in Arabia, which was a dwindling legacy from Vikramaditya’s times.
The Islamic term ‘Eed-ul-Fitr’ derives from the ‘Eed of Piters’ that is
worship of forefathers in Sanskrit tradition. In India, Hindus
commemorate their ancestors during the Pitr-Paksha that is the
fortnight reserved for their remembrance. The very same is the
significance of ‘Eed-ul-Fitr’ (worship of forefathers).The Islamic
practice of observing the moon rise before deciding on celebrating the
occasion derives from the Hindu custom of breaking fast on Sankranti
and Vinayaki Chaturthi only after sighting the moon.Barah Vafat, the
Muslim festival for commemorating those dead in battle or by weapons,
derives from a similar Sanskrit tradition because in Sanskrit
‘Phiphaut’ is ‘death’. Hindus observe Chayal Chaturdashi in memory of
those who have died in battle.
The word Arabia is itself the abbreviation of a Sanskrit word. The
original word is ‘Arabasthan’. Since Prakrit ‘B’ is Sanskrit ‘V’ the
original Sanskrit name of the land is ‘Arvasthan’. ‘Arva’ in Sanskrit
means a horse. Arvasthan signifies a land of horses., and as well all
know, Arabia is famous for its horses.
This discovery changes the entire complexion of the history of ancient
India. Firstly we may have to revise our concepts about the king who
had the largest empire in history. It could be that the expanse of king
Vikramaditya’s empire was greater than that of all others. Secondly,
the idea that the Indian empire spread only to the east and not in the
west beyond say, Afghanisthan may have to be abandoned. Thirdly the
effeminate and pathetic belief that India, unlike any other country in
the world could by some age spread her benign and beatific cultural
influence, language, customs, manners and education over distant lands
without militarily conquering them is baseless. India did conquer all
those countries physically wherever traces of its culture and language
are still extant and the region extended from Bali island in the south
Pacific to the Baltic in Northern Europe and from Korea to Kaaba. The
only difference was that while Indian rulers identified themselves with
the local population and established welfare states, Moghuls and others
who ruled conquered lands perpetuated untold atrocities over the
vanquished.
‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ tells us that a pan-Arabic poetic symposium used to be
held in Mecca at the annual Okaj fair in pre-Islamic times. All leading
poets used to participate in it.
Poems considered best were awarded prizes. The best-engraved on gold
plate were hung inside the temple. Others etched on camel or goatskin
were hung outside. Thus for thousands of years the Kaaba was the
treasure house of the best Arabian poetic thought inspired by the
Indian Vedic tradition.
That tradition being of immemorial antiquity many poetic compositions
were engraved and hung inside and outside on the walls of the Kaaba.
But most of the poems got lost and destroyed during the storming of the
Kaaba by Prophet Mohammad’s troops. The Prophet’s court poet,
Hassan-bin-Sawik, who was among the invaders, captured some of the
treasured poems and dumped the gold plate on which they were inscribed
in his own home. Sawik’s grandson, hoping to earn a reward carried
those gold plates to Khalif’s court where he met the well-known Arab
scholar Abu Amir Asamai. The latter received from the bearer five gold
plates and 16 leather sheets with the prize-winning poems engraved on
them. The bearer was sent away happy bestowed with a good reward.On the
five gold plates were inscribed verses by ancient Arab poets like Labi
Baynay, Akhatab-bin-Turfa and Jarrham Bintoi. That discovery made
Harun-al-Rashid order Abu Amir to compile a collection of all earlier
compositions. One of the compositions in the collection is a tribute in
verse paid by Jarrham Bintoi, a renowned Arab poet, to king
Vikramaditya. Bintoi who lived 165 years before Prophet Mohammad had
received the highest award for the best poetic compositions for three
years in succession in the pan-Arabic symposiums held in Mecca every
year. All those three poems of Bintoi adjudged best were hung inside
the Kaaba temple, inscribed on gold plates. One of these constituted an
unreserved tribute to King Vikramaditya for his paternal and filial
rule over Arabia. That has already been quoted above.
Pre-Islamic Arabian poet Bintoi’s tribute to king Vikramaditya is a
decisive evidence that it was king Vikramaditya who first conquered the
Arabian Peninsula and made it a part of the Indian Empire. This
explains why starting from India towards the west we have all Sanskrit
names like Afghanisthan (now Afghanistan), Baluchisthan, Kurdisthan,
Tajikiathan, Uzbekisthan, Iran, Sivisthan, Iraq, Arvasthan, Turkesthan
(Turkmenisthan) etc.
Historians have blundered in not giving due weight to the evidence
provided by Sanskrit names pervading over the entire west Asian region.
Let us take a contemporary instance. Why did a part of India get named
Nagaland even after the end of British rule over India? After all
historical traces are wiped out of human memory, will a future age
historian be wrong if he concludes from the name Nagaland that the
British or some English speaking power must have ruled over India? Why
is Portuguese spoken in Goa (part of India), and French in Pondichery
(part of India), and both French and English in Canada? Is it not
because those people ruled over the territories where their languages
are spoken? Can we not then justly conclude that wherever traces of
Sanskrit names and traditions exist Indians once held sway? It is
unfortunate that this important piece of decisive evidence has been
ignored all these centuries.
Another question which should have presented itself to historians for
consideration is how could it be that Indian empires could extend in
the east as far as Korea and Japan, while not being able to make
headway beyond Afghanisthan? In fact land campaigns are much easier to
conduct than by sea. It was the Indians who ruled the entire West Asian
region from Karachi to Hedjaz and who gave Sanskrit names to those
lands and the towns therein, introduce their pantheon of the
fire-worship, imparted education and established law and order.
It may be that Arabia itself was not part of the Indian empire until
king Vikrama , since Bintoi says that it was king Vikrama who for the
first time brought about a radical change in the social, cultural and
political life of Arabia. It may be that the whole of West Asia except
Arabia was under Indian rule before Vikrama. The latter added Arabia
too to the Indian Empire. Or as a remote possibility it could be that
king Vikramaditya himself conducted a series of brilliant campaigns
annexing to his empire the vast region between Afghanisthan and Hedjaz.
Incidentally this also explains why king Vikramaditya is so famous in
history. Apart from the nobility and truthfulness of heart and his
impartial filial affection for all his subjects, whether Indian or
Arab, as testified by Bintoi, king Vikramaditya has been permanently
enshrined in the pages of history because he was the world’s greatest
ruler having the largest empire. It should be remembered that only a
monarch with a vast empire gets famous in world history. Vikram Samvat
(calendar still widely in use in India today) which he initiated over
2000 years ago may well mark his victory over Arabia, and the so called
Kutub Minar (Kutub Tower in Delhi), a pillar commemorating that victory
and the consequential marriage with the Vaihika (Balkh) princess as
testified by the nearby iron pillar inscription.
A great many puzzles of ancient world history get automatically solved
by a proper understanding of these great conquests of king
Vikramaditya. As recorded by the Arab poet Bintoi, Indian scholars,
preachers and social workers spread the fire-worship ceremony, preached
the Vedic way of life, manned schools, set up Ayurvedic (healing)
centres, trained the local people in irrigation and agriculture and
established in those regions a democratic, orderly, peaceful,
enlightened and religious way of life. That was of course, a Vedic
Hindu way of life.
It is from such ancient times that Indian Kshtriya royal families, like
the Pahalvis and Barmaks, have held sway over Iran and Iraq. It is
those conquests, which made the Parsees Agnihotris i.e.,
fire-worshippers. It is therefore that we find the Kurds of Kurdisthan
speaking a Sanskritised dialect, fire temples existing thousands of
miles away from India, and scores of sites of ancient Indian cultural
centres like Navbahar in West Asia and the numerous viharas in Soviet
Russia spread throughout the world. Ever since so many viharas are
often dug up in Soviet Russia, ancient Indian sculptures are also found
in excavations in Central Asia. The same goes for West Asia.
[Note: Ancient Indian sculptures include metal statues of the Hindu
deity Ganesh (the elephant headed god); the most recent find being in
Kuwait].
Unfortunately these chapters of world history have been almost
obliterated from public memory. They need to be carefully deciphered
and rewritten. When these chapters are rewritten they might change the
entire concept and orientation of ancient history.
In view of the overwhelming evidence led above, historians, scholars,
students of history and lay men alike should take note that they had
better revise their text books of ancient world history. The existence
of Hindu customs, shrines, Sanskrit names of whole regions, countries
and towns and the Vikramaditya inscriptions reproduced at the beginning
are a thumping proof that Indian Kshatriyas once ruled over the vast
region from Bali to Baltic and Korea to Kaaba in Mecca, Arabia at the
very least.
|
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 09:11
Varma, im not goin to read allot of that, but that last part caught my eye
"
In view of the overwhelming evidence led above, historians, scholars,
students of history and lay men alike should take note that they had
better revise their text books of ancient world history. The existence
of Hindu customs, shrines, Sanskrit names of whole regions, countries
and towns and the Vikramaditya inscriptions reproduced at the beginning
are a thumping proof that Indian Kshatriyas once ruled over the vast
region from Bali to Baltic and Korea to Kaaba in Mecca, Arabia at the
very least."
you can be seroius, any connction between let say latvia and sanskrit is the I/E languge (presevered archaicism seen in the baltiics are just that). what that is claiming is the that I/E is Indian. Thats the same logic as a turks claiming mongols or freekin manchu's are turk because their altiac.
Kurds are iranian, zorester was if anything the oppostite to hindu with good devs being evil devils and bad ashura's reformed into the good ahura mazda. his followers do not worship fire such comments show the ignorance of that writer, nor are they hindu .
can you do more than just cut and paste nationalistic flaming articles?
|
Posted By: varma
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 09:29
I can possible not conduct research but eplanation can one give or ugive about such a presence..
And it is a well known fact that Mittan kings once ruled the
west asia region and Kassites presence in Syria. Is is really not fair
to say they have influenced anythig in their kingdom
Mittanis and kassites were infact vedic kings and their exits
inscriptions and their names does'nt differ a bit with thiose from
other ancients of India.
And when the so called historians cannot satifactorily explain this
presence they claim it prooves the Aryan migration into India..
Bullsh*t Aryan Invasion/ Migration atleast into India were a carp and
their exist no proof, no eneological evidence nor inscriptional and
literary evidence...
But in the veada
and Puranas we hae literary evidenc of Migrations to the west of
India....No all these are myths(this is the response of the
Westernerss) but increasingly these ,myths are prooving to be true
example : Dwaraka Findings( the legendary Mahabaratha city) Adams bride
and many in the future will come true becoz unable to comprehand the
time lines of India with that of judo Christian timelines the
westerners had a lid on their scientific temper by branding a whole lto
of literature as myths...
the early Judo
christian bigotry is so terrible that even their own history Greek
History has been branded as Greek Mythology. what respect would they
sho for the literatures of the other countries...With Troy excavatede
finally being proved that homer was not merely writing a fiction but
writing down an event of history, it only goes to show that those who
have written history have written with a bias and many with regard to
India ancient history had no more than linguists from whcih born the a
fictional myth that was literally trranslated as history rubbishing the
actual history of India as Myth
|
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 02:31
Varma
no more discussion about Oak theory there is a thread about this in the asia forum http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13045 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13045
that guy who calls himself a "historian" is nothing but an old ignornt who think everything is Hindu,
and please watch for your language, you got a warning already and if you continued you will be banned,
thankx.
-------------
|
Posted By: çok geç
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 13:46
Originally posted by varma
Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple? By P.N. Oak (Historian)
|
Actually there are perfumes brought from India with trade routes. Those perfumes were always covering Kaaba. In view of the overwhelming evidence led above, historians, scholars, students of history and lay men alike should take note that they had better revise their text books of ancient world history. The existence of Hindu customs, shrines, Sanskrit names of whole regions, countries and towns and the Vikramaditya inscriptions reproduced at the beginning are a thumping proof that Indian Kshatriyas once ruled over the vast region from Bali to Baltic and Korea to Kaaba in Mecca, Arabia at the very least.
------------- D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
|
Posted By: Ave1
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 19:08
Originally posted by azimuth
Varma
no more discussion about Oak theory there is a thread about this in the asia forum http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13045 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13045
that guy who calls himself a "historian" is nothing but an old ignornt who think everything is Hindu,
and please watch for your language, you got a warning already and if you continued you will be banned,
thankx. |
I'd like to add that some people even erroneously claimed that Iranian Masjids were actually at one time, Vedic temples.
Nevertheless, I am looking forward to one day go make the pilgrimage to Mecca.
I'd like to thank the individual who posted those fascinating pictures of the Kabbah and Mecca.
------------- "Not one American Christian in a hundred realizes that if he lived in Israel, he would be the victim of official discrimination forced...to carry an identification card" - Joseph Sobran
|
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 00:03
Is it possible for me to viist the Haji in Mecca? THat would be freakin awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 03:25
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
Is it possible for me to viist the Haji in Mecca? THat would be freakin awsome!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
if you lived a few hunderd years ago you could under ottoman rule.
arabs don't want "kafirs"
------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
|
Posted By: çok geç
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 12:22
Originally posted by xi_tujue
if you lived a few hunderd years ago you could under ottoman rule.
arabs don't want "kafirs" |
To answer this in a more intelligent way, if you were a visitor prior to 1900's, probably you would have made it easily to Mecca as it was hard to control the flow of thousands and thousands of pilgrimage from many routes including the most favorable route of Westerns, the red sea. I'm currently re-reading a book of john Sabini, Armies in the Sand. If you can borrow it from a local library, I assure you that you will be amzued by all the stories and narrations and even drawings some westerns constructed during their visits to Mecca pretending to be convert Muslims or what some Westerns called other Westerns who escaped their European ships or armies "renegade".
Now, it is almost impossible because all roads are controlled by check points and you cannot take a ship and land in Jeddah without your information shared.
------------- D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:39
Is there any case of any non muslim ever set foot on mecca? as far as i understand.. it's 'haram' land.. impossible right?
|
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 14:21
i think non-Muslims can enter Mecca in many cases, but its preferred that its kept for Muslims only most of the time.
-------------
|
|