The origion of the Türks
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ethnic History of Central Asia
Forum Discription: Discussions about the ethnic origins of Central Asian peoples. All topics related to ethnicity should go here.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5291
Printed Date: 01-May-2024 at 17:33
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Topic: The origion of the Türks
Posted By: Guests
Subject: The origion of the Türks
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 13:14
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The origion of the Türks
Hi, all! Here are something I want to discuss with you in this forum. I hope you all give your own opinions about this, thank you! The history of Uyghurs is more complicated and more confused, even more interesting. And, I see the Taklemakan desert is where full of mystories, it is obviously the key to find out one great culture on earth. As we all discuss the origion of Türks, there are some distinct opinions. Some say the Türks were Mongolid people. The origional inhabetants of Central Asian Steppe were Iranic people, white ones, they had the same origion what the Europeans have. Because the discovery of the Kroran Beauty and Cherchen Man can prove this. After the Turkic occupation of the Central Asia, the arrival of Mongoliod people made the local ones has Mongolic blood. And that's why there still can be found some Uyghurs, or central Asian have Mongol looking. Some experts exmaing that the people of Central Asia have the three big origion of human, whites, Mongoliod, and Negro. I don't agree with this arguement as it doesn't has strong relialablity to believe in. The other opposite argue about the origion of the Türks states that Türks were clearly Europoed people who had light skin, light hair, blue eyes. The reason why the Central Asian have Mongoliod elements is said to be that beacuse of the arrival of the Mongols. After Ghenggizhan took over the whole Central Asia, a great number of Mongols flooded through this area, and had the assimilation with the local people, thery were converted to Islam afterwords. And that made themselves not be able to keep their individuality. I'm not sure about this statement. Personally, I tend to the second one which makes the Turks more comfortable. Here I have a hasitation if you can help me to make it clearify. The Uyghurs, Uzbeks, Turkmens have had a strong connection with Persians, Tajiks during the early history. So it's obvious that these Turkic nations undoubtly had Persian elements on their biological and cultural structure. We cannot avoid talking about Persians while we are talking about ourselves. However, what about Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs who had less connection with Persians, Arabs, or Chinese? Are they counted as purer Turks than Uyghurs and Uzbeks? How much percentage of European blood and Turkic blood do they have? If they are counted as pure Turkic people, does it make sense that the early Turks were Mongolid people? Thankyou! Rehmet. |
Replies:
Posted By: Kenaney
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 13:59
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What the Turks and persians, others divides is genetical and fysical differences (like Türk kemikcigi on the back of youre head). ------------- OUT OF LIMIT |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 14:19
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Hello and welcome - YELKEN! My educated guess would lead me to believe that ethnicities have been mixing around the steppes for eons. Where certain branches started from is beyond my speculation. Maybe various members could enlighten us on this. Also, there have been various threads on the topic of racial purity. Have fun poking around to read a few of them. ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 14:37
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I think we should stop to origin of Turks but we should think future of Turks. do you think we can conquerer USA? They are p____g us at Iraq.
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Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:05
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Humor is good, p____g is a necessary bodily function. Plus don't you think the US has enough toilets? ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:14
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Well, Infact they have more toilet than enough, but they love to p__s to others toilets or worse countries. By the way, I am not serious. Even we are not agree at all points, USA is our ally, but well, I think they should attack another country. I think our greek friends need more freedom. Their freedom is not enough for them. After all they are mother of democracy and freedom, and They love it much.
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Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:21
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That will be enough on the jokes Mortaza, unless you want your post to enter the Dungeon. ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:25
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uh? It looks like population of your dungeon will quickly increase. I think I didnt insult any race or any one. Did I?
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Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:29
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Let's just say that there is a fine line between humor and a friendly jab. If taken the wrong way would lead to a flame war. Then the Dungeon would definitely fill up too quickly. ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 15:31
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oh, no I prefer Karamanlis to Bush. God protect Karamanlis! I dont think our greek friends will angry to me not sure about americans.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 16:16
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That's a racist, wannabe claim. All races have their own beauties, dont need to have blue eyes to become "superior". There are ancient graves in Mongolia and Central asia, where people with Mongoloid and Nordic-Europoid features were burried together. And that doesnt mean the origins of the steppe wariors were so, it means an obvious racial stereotype cannot be drawn for all and they've been mixing since the ancient times as a result of continuous immigrations and relations with other races. Central Asia was Turkic before, the border btw Turks and Iranic people (Sogdians) was mavaraunnahr. East of it was the lands of steppe people, Turks. But if you mean Transoxania and beyond Mavarannahr (western Turkestan) being Turkified, well, it becomes with the Gokturks conquering Sogdiana. Central Asia is a huge region and it was shared btw Turkic, Iranic, and Mongolic people (in the east) since ancient times. Firstly, Iranic people invaded Turkic lands (Scythians), then Turkic people invaded Iranic lands (Ak Huns). Todays Uzbekistan was the border btw Turkic and Iranic people (not Persians), so today, half of western Turkestan lies on ancient Iranic lands. But it doesnt mean the Mongoloid admixture came there with Turks or Mongols, Sogdians, Schythians all had important Mongoloid influence for sure. Tajiks and Afghans still have some. ------------- |
Posted By: Sultan
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 23:43
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To Yelken , The Uyghurs , Uzbeks And Turkmen Were Infected Only Culturaly Not Biologicaly , Why You Are Not Talking About How Many The Turks And Mongolians Ruled The Persians Lands Which Is Iran Today And Infected Them For Years ! The Turks Are Not Mongoliad But They Have The Same Roots And According To Some Turks Sources The Same Father But Some Of The Turk And Mongloian Groups Mixed Up With Each Others Like The Tatars , Tatar Is a Group From The Mongols But They Mixed Too Much With The Other Near Turks Tribes Until They Now Knows As Turks And So On , Why Do People Always Trying To Relate Turks With Other Races ?! The Europeans Claims That The Huns Are Not Turks But Europeans ! Because They Cant Accept That Other Race Can Beat Them In Thier Own Ground Like What Attila Have Done With Them And The Chinese Now Trying To Relate Everything Uyghur And Mongolian To Its Own History To Claim That InnerMongolia And Eastern Turkistan Belongs To Them And The Persians Always Claims That Uzbkes And Turkmen Have a Persian Blood ! This is nonsense. Central Asia And Big Parts Of China And All Russia Belongs To The Turks And The Mongols , To Tell The Truth Its Our Fault That Our People Were Warriros Fighting Each Others And The Others Rather Than Writting Our Own History. Again, Anyone Who Is Interested In The Turks And Mongols History Please Try To Find Some Turk Or Mongolian BooksNot Chinese Or Persian. ------------- Turkistan is a door to two worlds, Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks, Living in beautiful Turkistan Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks. FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 10:51
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well i kinda disagree with that. if you wanna study history you have to look at all the available sources. that includes what the chinese persians greeks and arabs and whoever else wrote. though i agree with one thing. Turks did make history but they never wrote alot of it unfortunately. its up to the reader to be unbiased and deternine what happened. and you cant look at similarities alone to prove something or dissimilarities alone to disprove something. one must look at the whole and judge it as a whole. if you are selective and or ignorant about the sources you study from then your conclusion will be incomplete and it wont represent the whole truth. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Sultan
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 20:08
Yes You Are Right , They Have To Read All The Books From Many Different View But i Am Asking That They Must Also Read Books Written By Uyghurs , Turks Not Only Chinese, Thats All.
------------- Turkistan is a door to two worlds, Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks, Living in beautiful Turkistan Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks. FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN |
Posted By: Sultan
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 20:11
------------- Turkistan is a door to two worlds, Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks, Living in beautiful Turkistan Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks. FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 02:13
ahh ok i agree with that. of course we have to look at stuff written by uygurs and and other turks. you are right that the chinese and the russians did a lot of damage to the culture and also executed alot if not all of the educated elite.  but all was not lost and relations are better with russia.  so hopefully in the future it will be the same with china. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Hak-Khan
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 10:10
turks had no relationship with other nationalities, especially greeks, armenians, arabs,persians so you cant proove your idea anymore we mixed with; kazaks turkmens ozbeks saha's samis kyrgiz and other turkic countries some turks in center asia also mixed with mongols who are not turkic ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 11:10
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what all of this race doing in anatolia? Our nation still have arabs, albanians, bosnians, or bulgarians. I am sure some of armenians and greeks converted too. Not they call themself as Turk and other race in turkey. So I dont know what is the meaning of Turk you mention? It looks like It does not mean, citizen of Turkey.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 15:50
No, the word Turk is derived from Turuk, which specifies Turkic peoples. Turkic peoples in Turkestan called themselves Uyghur, Kipchak, Kazakh, etc, but people in Turkey call themself Turk, while many have mingled with other ethnicities. That doesn't change that fact they have Turkish blood, but Turk as in 'citizen of Turkey' is one sided. Turkic peoples in Central Asia have more right to call themselves Turk than Turks in Turkey. It was the Russians that made them call themselves 'Turkic'
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Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 15:56
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let's say it's not a right but willingles.I call myself as Turk but an Uzbek call him/herself as Uzbek it's their choice
------------- "When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?" |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 16:01
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hokagenaruto3 Well If they want, They can call themself as Turk too. Noone is against It. Infact I prefer If they call themself as Turk. |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 07:44
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having a right to call yourself a turk is a right everyone that speaks a turkic language has. every anatolian turk has just as much a right to call themselves a turk as any kazak uygur kyrgyz etc. does. this racial purity stuff is only something ultra nationalistic people subscibe to. there is no such thing as a pure race. everyone is mixed to some extent. some more some less. there are alot of turkified mongols who are kazaks today. nursultan nazerbayev called himself a turk for example. i'm not saying that he is a turkified mongol tho. in his case i just dont know. if in your heart and mind you feel that you are a turk go ahead and call yourself one. that is not a right anyone can deny you. its a linguistic and historical bond. my father worked with alot of central asian turks that didnt live under soviet occupation and non of them was ashamed of calling themselves turks. the urum for example are ethnic greeks. they say they are greeks ethnically but they also say that they are turks in soul. can anyone tell them no you cant be a turk in soul? no! if thats how they feel then thats how it is.
------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 09:28
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oh and to say the turks had no relationships with the arabs persians greeks is insane. ever heard of the devsirme period??? the turks did mix with these people. Slavs were also among them. they were taken from christian homes at a very early age and were put into turkish homes where they learned the turkish language culture and traditions. then when they were old enough they were taken to be at service of the ottoman state as kapikulu, janisaries, scribes etc. etc. these people were not ethnically turks, however they called themselves osmanli. which as we all know was a turkish state. and this touches base with what i have written above. if in heart soul and mind you feel you are a turk then you are. states are not formed by genetics. they are formed politically and culturally. these people didnt just disappear. they still contribute to the gene pool of the turkish republic today. and on a side note. yildirim beyazit's mother was a greek does this make him a greek sultan? No! mehmet akif ersoy who wrote the istiklal marsi is of albanian origin. but if he felt like an albanian could he have written the istiklal marsi? no! other ottoman sultans were also of foreign origin either maternally or paternally. they ruled the ottoman state though. they spoke the language of the empire. they didnt rule as people belonging to these other nationalities. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 11:27
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mehmet akif ersoy who wrote the istiklal marsi is of albanian origin. but if he felt like an albanian could he have written the istiklal marsi? no! He called himself as albanian at his one poet. I think we should differentiate Turkish nation before Ataturk and after Ataturk. Before Ataturk, at ottomans People who is muslim called as Turks too.(Special at the west anatolia and balkains) And I cant say İstiklal Marşı glorify Turkish race, It glorify Turkish(ottoman) nation. I dont think Mehmet Akif feel more Turkish than albanian. After all for him, Race has not any importance but religion. We cant say Mehmet Akif called himself as Turk. Even He is hero of Turkey, I can say he is a hero of Turkish race.
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Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 12:13
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First of all there is no such thing as before and after ataturk! the people of anatolia didnt change overnight when we went from empire (ottoman) to modern day republic of turkey. and secondly iskiklal marsi glorifies a races fight against aggression, it doesnt glorify the ottoman nation as you claim. "I dont think Mehmet Akif feel more Turkish than albanian." your sentence above seems to me to be absurd. If you had read my sentence "but if he felt like an albanian could he have written the istiklal marsi? no!" carefully you wouldnt have written something like this. the istiklal marsi is not for muslims! not for albanians! but for the entire TURKISH Nation. its as simple as that. btw. saying "I dont think Mehmet Akif feel more Turkish than albanian" and then "Even He is hero of Turkey, I can say he is a hero of Turkish race." doent make sense and defies all logic. would you please ellaborate. if he is a hero of the turkish race and he wrote something that glorifies a turkish struggle how could he have felt more albanian??? ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 12:30
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btw. saying "I dont think Mehmet Akif feel more Turkish than albanian" and then "Even He is hero of Turkey, I can say he is a hero of Turkish race." doent make sense and defies all logic. would you please ellaborate. I write wrong, I mean even he is a hero of Turkey, I cannot say he is a hero of Turkish race. He didnt cared for Turkish race. He cared for Ottomans and Turkey people.
After all he is not a nationalist but a pan-islamist. First of all there is no such thing as before and after ataturk! There is, Infact even Ataturk changes his idea of nation after sometime. Why do you think Karaman Christians sent to Greece? Even They were Turk and They helped Independent war, They sent to greece. At the ottomans Turk=Muslim. This is reason for exiling Turkish Karaman Christians. I dont think Turkish nationalist have right to claim Mehmet Akif. If you read Istiklal marsı , You cannot find any word like Turks, and you can find a lot words related with Islam. And I read a poet from him, He was claiming that He is arnavut.So I dont think He is a hero of Turkish race and I dont see why do you think he is interested with Turkish race? |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 12:43
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karamanlis who were orthodox were exchanged for muslim turks! which was a political move wheather it was right or wrong I think you need to read the istiklal marsi before you come to conclusions. Ebediyen sana yok, ırkıma yok izmihlal: there will be no anihilation to my race and to my flag. do you think hes talking about the albanian race? if so i dont have anything else to say to you and i guess were all albanians!
------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 12:51
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Sure, why do you think his nation means "Turk race" as I said you before Turks =Muslims. He is a pan-islamist, He dont cared race. Why do you think when he is calling himself as albanian, he supported Turkish cause? Not because he feels he is Turkish, but because he feels he is muslim and because he feel ottomans were last muslim nation who was free at that time. If I am a pan-islamist, If I am albanian, why should I feel as a Turk ? this is complately agains to common sense. any idea? He support Turkey, Turkey people (Turks are majority of Turkey people) but he is not a Turk, he is not a Turkish nationalist. I dont think He will support a christian Turkey against a muslim Greece.
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Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 13:00
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could you please point out to me where i said he was a turk? i never said that. and besides i dont care which way you look at it mortaza muslims are not a race! why does he call himself albanian? same reason the urums call themselves ethnic greeks. as i said above they feel they are turks in soul. so if you say turks = musllims and he means his race by that then i guess he is saying that he is a turk in soul. not ethnically. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 13:05
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And besides what else can he do? he wrote for a race he wrote for a nation he is obviously stateing whose side he's on. of course he supported the turkish cause if the turkish state was the only free muslim state around as you put it. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 13:07
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Well, becoming a turk in soul is a little weird. I mean If he called himself Turk and If he felt he is a Turkish, I accept, he was a Turk at soul. But He call himself as Albanian, and sorry Maybe you can see his soul but I cant see. So I dont think he have a Turkish soul.(I dont know what is meaning of this much) I dont think we are god who can claim souls of other. We should accept him as what he called himself. and He called himself as Arnavut. muslims are not a race! Well I agree with this too, but claiming someone who say, I am albanian is a little wrong. As I said he is a hero of Turkey, I can claim is a hero of us(If US means people of Turkey). But If US means Turkish race, well he is not.
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Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 13:19
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holy smokes mortaza i never said i was god and this topic isnt about god either. and i never claimed anyones soul. im not shang tsun from mortal kombat buddy. and besides what i mean by being turk at soul is explained above. if you cant understand it then there is nothing i can do about that. sorry. it written in plain english and i havent used any complicated wording either. maybe others who read this can enlighten you. i have tried. he is an ethnic albanian! and what he did he did for the turkish nation not the albanian one. thats about as simple as i can can put it to you. anyway thats the last im gonna write about mehmet akif ersoy. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 13:33
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if in heart soul and mind you feel you are a turk then you are. states are not formed by genetics. they are formed politically and culturally. Well If you mean this, ottomans are not a Turkish Empire, they were an islamic Empire build by Turks. Their culture is neither Turkish too, It have a big Turkish side, but It also effected from every other nation who live in ottomans. And For know, Our culture and Ottomans culture is much different after Ataturk revaluation. Do you think, now we are different race from Ottomans? im not shang tsun from mortal kombat buddy. I am a fun of him, I wish you is he is an ethnic albanian! and what he did he did for the turkish nation not the albanian one He did it for Turkish nation at that times. Meaning of Turkish nation is changed much, Mehmet Akif will call a Laz (who will call themself as laz) who dont know Turkish as a Turk. Do you call also? This laz is ethnically and culturaly a laz, but for Mehmet Akif It is a Turk.(Or ottoman) As I said you before, Meaning of Turkish nation changed last 70-80 years |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 13:53
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heheh yeah actually i am a fan shang tsun that game was awesome. well to put it to you like this i knew a lot laz people when i lived in turkey. they knew they were laz but they also called themselves turks. when some went to the army they said i love turkey i love the nation and will die for it if i have to. and thats the sort of spirit i was talking about when i said turk in soul or ruhen turkum. of course cultures change that is inevitable. its called cultural exchange. every culture grows that way. i hope to tanri that the turkish culture keps evolving if it doesnt it will stagnate and die. when the turks arrived in anatolia they adopted alot of non turkic elements into theirs. when it comes to the mehter marsi for example when we speak of the military that isnt turkish in origin it comes from the byzantines. there is alot of greek food in todays turkish cuisine aswell. do i think we are a different race then ottoman times? no. turks in turkey are the decendants of the ottomans. i mean people called themselves turks then and they still do today. and if the ottoman empire was build by turks it was a turkish islamic empire. there were other islamic empires too but not all were turkish ones. there were arabic islamic empires too. can we say they werent arabic in nature? i personally dont think so. but their population included non arabs too. he did do it for the turkish nation of that time and that is exactly my point. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 13:58
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he did do it for the turkish nation of that time and that is exactly my point. I agree with this, but somehow I dont think he will support now Turkish nation, for him Turkish nation was different than Turkish nation of this time. At that times, Turkish nation include other races too, now It exclude other races. |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 14:08
oh dude i never said he would or wouldnt support the turkish nation now. i was talking historically only.  ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 15:55
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Let all keep this as historical as possible. This is not the intellectual discussions forum. Thanks. ------------- |
Posted By: Hak-Khan
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 22:44
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the word of "Turk" is written thousands years ago in Orkhun Scripts in
central asian steppes, its the oldest word for using a central asian
warlike nation so your ideas about anatolian Turks(a mixed nation idea) are only a bullsh*t rally Turks didnt mixed with other nations(when and which turk married with an armenian or greek?, have you ever heard about that?) Greeks, Armenians,Persians,Arabs has sent their homelands when first Turks came into anatolia. you dont have any document or source about mixed nation Turks so ,dont waste your time, no kid around here ------------- |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 23:05
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it was with the gok turks that this term was applied to a people and nation. and they rose to power in and around the 5th century. i cant believe u think we are not mixed. thats preposterous. read history man. the gok turks took chinese brides too. and yes actually i know turks who have married greeks. not everyone in turkey and greece is racist you know and wasnt back then either. if a greek converted to islam there was nothing stopping a turk from taking her as a bride. then how come yildirim beyazits mother was greek? man learn your history. are you saying yildirim beyazit wasnt a turk? as far as i know his father was. genetically he was a half breed. but what he did and fought for was for a turkish state. if you know better about him for instance and have sources let me know and i will gladly look at them. seriously these claims for racial purity are seriously absurd. and my ideas arent bullsh*t either. they happened to be shared by alot of people when it comes to racial purity issues. no such thing. there is a difference between selcuk turks when they came to anatolia and turks today. i am not claiming that we are not turks. we are totally! but ethnically and genetically we arent pure. besides being a turk or belonging to any nation is not about how you look. mankind has been intermingeling for millenia! how can you claim that we and other nations never mixed. this defys logic. if turks never mixed as you claim. well then there wouldnt be any around today. a ton of people from other nations and ethnicities became turkified and some turks became assimilated into other peoples and nations ie the bulgars. and what of all the turkified people during the devsirme period? u think they just vanished? and being a turk doesnt mean you have a genetic bond to the ancient turks but you may have a linguistic and cultural bond. which ever one you have it doesnt matter. if you feel you are a turk then you are. and no can say otherwise. it doesnt mean there is a direct linkage between you and lets say bilge kagan or any turk that lived during his time. the look of people wheather you are mongoloid caucasoid or turanoid or whatever is based on where you actually lived. people evolved to suit their environment. if you can have turks that are mongoloid and caucasoid then obviously we have mixed. why is this so hard for you to accept? im only curious because i really dont understand your stance on things and i would like to. and im not kidding around or wasting my time either Hak-Khan. im trying to have a civil conversation and debate with people on these forums and i have every right to do so. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 00:11
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and how do you think anatolia became turkified? you think we slaughtered its inhabitants until there was no one left? no! when turks came into the region we werent the majority. anatolia has been inhabited by other ethnic groups. these were turkified when we came. and by turkifying i dont mean we need to have sexual relations with them. that did happen of course its human nature. other however were turkified on a cultural and linguistic basis only. can we say they arent turks now? i dont think so. fatih sultan mehmeds mothers was genovese read prof franz babinger. he is one of the major sources for info on fatih sultan. besides its a major principle of history that you can not project ideas that evolved in the 19th century like racism and nationalism in peridds of time before the 18th century, before the ideas came to fruition. it is like the leftist saying that sheykh bedrettin was the first socialist or communist as has been claimed by the turkish leftist about 20 years ago. trying to be a rightist you make the same mistake as a leftist. the decision is yours so learn your history please before you accuse me of bullsh*ting. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 09:59
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Hak-Khan I could see that your are over passionate about your ethnicity. Yet it does border on making you a zealot. Since you have your right to your opinion: "Turks didnt mixed with other nations(when and which turk married with an armenian or greek?, have you ever heard about that?)" I have a right to mine. Are you telling me you do not know any Turk from a mixed marriage? I know many. I've met Turks married to Germans, Americans, Greeks, South Americans, Orientals, Kurds, Albanians, Bosinans, Arabs and more. ------------- |
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 10:02
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Turkey is a mega mixer of ethnics, but mostly with any kind of Turks. ------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 17:19
GEÇMİŞİNİ BİLMEYENLER GELECEĞİNİ DÜŞÜNEMEZLER!!! ------------- |
Posted By: HistoryGuy
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 12:51
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I believe they came from Siberia. This is why most asians have slanted eyes because it was to keep them warm. And also to adapt to the harsh winter blindness. ------------- هیچ مردی تا به Øال به شما درباره خدا Ú¯Ùته. |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 12:54
which history ? created one? do we know our history? between 1900-2000 ? Sorry but I dont interest much for 2000 years ago, after all most of them are story and tales.
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Posted By: AydoluAtsiz
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 20:18
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wheather you are interested in it or not our history certainly goes back a lot further than the 1900's without having to look at stories and tales. and there are quite a few viable sources from other civilizations that have documented the turks in ancient times. the most ancient ones probably being chinese sources. ------------- Türk duygusu her Türkçüye en tatlı kımızdır; Türk ülküsü candan da aziz bayrağımızdır... Darbeyle gönüllerde yatan ülkü silinmez! Atsız yere düşmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!... |
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 22:57
Not everything is based on stories or tales.every nation's history
have tales, the catch is to learn and respect them wheter they
are true or not. ------------- "When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?" |