Oak Island
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: History of the Americas
Forum Discription: The Americas: History from pre-Colombian times to the present
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35150
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 11:19 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Oak Island
Posted By: red clay
Subject: Oak Island
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2014 at 11:56
I would imagine almost everyone knows something about it. It's described as the longest treasure hunt in history, folks have been digging there for at least 200 years.
There is a show on the History Channel called "The Curse of Oak Island". The program's newest episode aired tues. nite and was the most viewed cable program for tues.
If you google it you'll come up with a ton of related sites. I first read about it in the early 60's and have been fascinated since. Theories about who and what run the gammet. Everything from pirate treasure to the Ark of the Covenent have been suggested.
From years of observation and consideration, I'm fairly sure that whatever is there, the folks who hid it had no intention of coming back. The lengths they went to to make sure no one could get to it, makes it fairly obvious that whatever it is, they did not want anyone to get to it.
My theory is that it's not so much valuable, as it is dangerous. That could be interpreted in several ways. It could be knowledge deemed dangerous, or it could be an actual object. The AOC comes to mind. As incredible as that sounds, circumstantial evidence points to it. Recently, new research has come up with a new and plausible theory.
The Templars have long been suspected as being involved. There is evidence that they were there. The new theory is that they weren't the ones who buried whatever, but rather, they were there to look for it. As screwey as this sounds, it does make sense in a way. It's documented that the primary reason the Templars were in Jerusalem was to investigate and excavate Solomen's temple. We know they found something, could it have been information regarding the AOC? Like the location of it, rather than the object itself?
Whatever, the folks involved in the present search on the island should be a lot more careful as they get closer to it, as it's pretty sure it's not a collection of old comic books.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2014 at 17:03
A lot of hype, legend, myth and lore surround the basic few facts known abut Oak Island.
What is clear is that the builders were quite technologically sophisticated for their time, based on their ability to defeat every known effort for two centuries.
What I would like to see is a reputable outfit with plenty of financial and technical resources settle the matter once and for all, but I don't see that happening because there is no guarantee of a large monetary prize to be gained.
I've watched a few episodes of the program you mentioned, but I don't like reality shows or their artificial hype wherein every single thought or action is presented as fraught with imagined dangers that simply don't exist.
------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2014 at 20:27
Well they can't get the Corp of E. So good luck.
But if I was them I'd remember what the council speakers say....
'only the foiking white man is stupid enough to foik around with that which Wakan Ttanka might consider sacred'.
Amen
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2014 at 09:53
The folking Indians aren't involved with Oak Island. Less tiswin - more focus.
The reason the Indians lost America in the first place was by not keeping up with the white man.
------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2015 at 10:41
Oak Island is not a "reality show". The season finale aired tues. with a dive down a 4 ft wide hole that goes down 180 ft. Any time you dive there are dangers.
The cool part was, they put imaging sonar down the hole. There are man made objects down there as well as additional tunnels.
The 4 ft hole goes down 180 ft. There is another shaft that continues down to 235 ft, but it's only 27 in wide. The plan for the next season is to drill that shaft out to 4 ft.
The folks involved in this effort have substantial resources. They have been at this for 7 years. They bought almost the entire island. With the tech. they have access to, I think they may finally find whatever is down there. BTW- The indians did not lose America, it was taken from them. Big diff.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2015 at 17:28
oh tis interesting enuff...they might find something. what.... is anybody's guess.... version and or fantasy.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 18-Apr-2019 at 11:27
Oak Island Update.
The Laginas ae still at it. 5 years after this post started. They have spent millions. They actually built an interpretive center to house the huge amount of research material they have accumulated.
The search for the actual money pit has stalled due to a crane operators strike. But the excavations at "Smiths Cove" are ongoing and have exposed large wood structures that have been dated to 1700-1720.
They have found artifacts that can connect the Templars to the site, but no ideas as to what was/is buried there.
The search continues.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2019 at 06:16
I hadn't looked into this before now except for where it connected with
my Captain Kidd's treasure study, but i have just done initial starter
research by looking up the wikipedia article, and it is abit more
interesting than i thought, though from the article and the below
compiled timeline it looks like they have pretty much exhausted the
island in searches and isn't likely any treasure there unless somewhere
they haven't looked.
Cambro-Ordovician Halifax formation slate Mississippian Windsor group limestone 75000 yrs ago glacial advance 8000 yrs bp lagoon Several thousand yrs ago Mikmaq Indians Coptic Grail Knights Templars pre-15th cent lead cross * 1430-1453 Capt Kidd Shakespeare 16th-17th cent art & docs clues 1654-1701 Capt Kidd 1701 Capt Kidd executed * wood structures at Oak Island Nova Scotia dated 1700-1720 * 1716-1718 pirate Edward Teach/Tatch "Blackbeard" 1750s French fishermen earliest confirmed European residents 7 yrs War: French fort Louisbourg fell to British 1759 Shorham grant for settlers. (Monroe, Lynch, Seacombe, Young*.) 1759 Chester founded 1760s Smith early resident * 1761 1st settlers, from Massachusetts 1770s Vaughan early resident 1778 DesBarres renames Smith's island "Gloucester isle" shortly after 1778 island called Oak Island * 1784 additional govt land grants to former soldiers 1789 Louis & Marie Antionette flee Paris with jewells late 1700s early settlers treasure stories begin appearing * 1795/1799 McGinnis (& Smith & Vaughin) discovered depression in ground * early 1800s Onslow company activities; early 1800s excavation, stone* discovered 1801 Chase attempts, wounded by Whynot 1802 Onslow company attempts 1818 original lot owners names mapped 1823-1830 Joseph Smith shows Book of Mormon tablets to witnesses 1824 stone built into Smith's chimney 1849-51 Truro company attempts 1850 Cooke shown stone by Smith * 1850 cofferdam found in 1909 1851 claimed that coconut fibres found 1856 Liverpool transcript 1856 stories began to be published; earliest story of McGinnis 1857 first published account 1860s excavation info of Onslow Comp 1861 Oak Island Assn excavation attempt; 1st accidental death 1862 account 1862 Onslow company excavated; 1862 another shaft dug 1863 explosion 1st mentioned in novel 1864 Cooke made inquiries about stone 1864 final attempt 1865-1866 stone removed to Halifax later 1860s DeMille resident of Chester Basin 1861-1865 Oak Island Association 1862 McCully letter told story of the stone 1862 stone first reported in Halifax Sun & Advisor article 1863 newspaper article 1864 article 1864 Historical Soc contacts Cooke; 1864 Cooke's letter to Hunter-Duvar 1866 expediton 1866-1867 Oak Isl Eldorado company / Halifax company 1866/1868 death mentioned 1866 NY Times / Daily British Colonist & Victoria Chronicle article 1867 Wellington Independent Herald / NY Herald article 1872 DeMille's novel Treasure of the Seas 1879 Marshall born 1881-1986 Harris 1893 Oak Island 1st mentioned to Blair by McDonald 1893 Oak Isl Treasure Company prospectus (10 feet below*) undated post-1894 letter by Blair 1895 History of Lunenburg county 1896 unkown group attempt 1897 shaft; 2nd accidental death. 1898 Moonfleet by Falkner (Mohune "Blackbeard"). 1898 red paint poured into pit reveals 3 exit holes early 20th cent sample sent to Smithsonian Institue 1909 Bowdoin & Old Gold Salvage group incld FDR. 1909/1910-1945 Roosevelt followed mystery, advised by Byrd; USAS 1911, suggestions that pit as natural phenomenon date to. 1911 Bowdoin account pubished in Collier's Magazine 1919 business closed, stone left behind 1924 island first mapped 1928 NY newspaper article 1929 Driscoll's book Oak Isl Treasure 1931 Chappell interested, excavated 1935 Marshall wrote 1935-1939 Hedden (who made 6 trips to the island) began digging 1936 further excavations 1939 Roosevelt's planned secret visit prevented by fog 1939 Popular Science article 1949 another "money pit" found 1949 True Tales of Buried Treasure ("40 ft below"*) 1953 Leary's book Oak Isl Engima 1958 Harris' book Oak Isl Mystery 1959-1965 Restall & his 18 yo son attempt 1960s 1965 account of excavation in Reader's Digest 1965-1966 Dunfield attempt, causeway built 1967 exploration syndicate formed 1969-1990s Triton Alliance 1970s Fell attempted translation of stone symbols 1971 Triton excavted a shaft 1971 videos 1979 In Search of ... episode 1983-1985 Triton sued Nolan over ownership of 7 lots 1989 Triton lost appeal 1990 Leary's 2nd book published 1990s exploration stalled by legal battles & lack of funds 1995 Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution survey 1996-present Young purchase lot 5 from Nolan 2000 Nickell reviews original accounts in 'Secrets of Oak Isl' 2002 'Oak Isl Treasure', MMM* Group 2005 portion of island for sale 2005-present Michigan Group; 2005 Michigan Group purchase lot 25 2006 anounced that Lagina purchased half of Oak Isl Tours 2006 Joltes' Oak Island legend 2008 Dunning, Skeptoid article 2010 OIT announce grated license 2010/2011 Oak Island Treasure Act 2014 History Channel documentary (goes for 6 seasons, 75 episodes) 2014-2019 allempires forum thread/topic 2014-present Curse of Oak Isl tv show 2015 2016 divers sent to bottom of borehole 10-x 2017 500 yr old brooch found * 2019 2 people living on island 2019 Blankenship's death aged 95 yo 2019 Oak Isl Tours dissolved.
My first impressions are these:
There
may be a connection with the Mormons because of several coincidental
similarities including: name Smith; name Young; name Monroe similar to
Moroni (or Moore in Kidd ballad); date 1824 similar to Mormon date 1823;
both link with NY; Cooke shown stone by Smith in 1850 similar to Joseph
Smith showed witnesses tablets in 1823-1830.
The only matches i
can see with Captain Kidd are: dates close; name Monroe similar to
Moore; Oak island is 50 percent sand and Kidd buried "bible" in the
sand; both link with NY; Money Pit similar to Money Cove. 10/40 feet
below similar to 30/40 leagues from shore (oak platforms / layers of
logs every 10 feet a measure?)? Coconut & Cocos? Robin Squires &
"Robert Kidd"?
Haven't researched Blackbeard yet so can't say if might be connected.
Not sure if "triangle shaped swamp" of Oak Island may link with Kidd or Blackbeard? Sounds vaguely familiarish? Or if "skeleton island" of Kidd's, or the skeleton in Blackbeard flag linked with Oak Island? Oak platforms like skeleton? ("Storeup your treasure in heaven, ..., for where your treasure is your *heart* is"?)
"the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Blackbeard - flag which is commonly attributed to Blackbeard (pictured), depicting a skeleton spearing a heart, while toasting the devil"! Heart is triangle shaped. Blackbeard hid his treasure "where none but Satan and myself can find it".
The
history of the stone might be masonic connected. (Mormonism also mason
connection.) The stone is also similar to one in Wonders of Britain.
Stone of Scone? Grail Stone? Philosopher's stone? Peter/Cephas?
Why is it called Oak Island?
------------- NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 20-Apr-2019 at 01:27
Additions to Oak Island timeline:
(1001 L'Anse aux Meadows. 1003 Leif Ericson, Vinland, Skraelings.) 1605 Port Royal established 1613 seized by English colonists from Virginia 1621 granted by James 1 to Scotsman Alexander 1690 battle Port Royal 1710 siege Port Royal, conquest of Acadia 1713 British conquest 1713 ceded to British in treaty of Utrecht 1745 siege Louisbourg 1745 Northeast Coast campaign 1748-1763/1766/1769 Shugborough inscription "in Arcadia" * 1749 Edward Cornwallis arrived, Halifax established 1754 Acadia 1755 Bay of Fundy Campaign 1758 Lunenburg campaign 1758 siege/fall of Louisbourg 1758 royal naval dockyard Halifax 1759 Halifax county 1760-1761 Halifax treaties 1763 finally given to England 1773 1st significant Scottish immigration 1776 battle of Fort Cumberland 1782 raid on Lunenburg 1812 New Ireland 1861 Mary Celeste built/launched at Bay of Fundy 1867 entered dominion of Canada 1869 Saxby Gale 1885 Halifax battalion 1893 hurricane, wrecks 1900 revision of constitutional statutes 1901 visit of duke of Cornwall 1901 prince Arthur of Connaught visits Halifax 1911 Borden a native of Nova Scotia became Canadian pm. 1917 Halifax explosion
Comparisons:
Blackbeard - Oak Island: Cape Fear N Carolina (Oak island light) - Oak Island horns/crown on head in flag - Prince Edward Isl above Nova Scotia? 3 dots triangle - 3 islands Mahone bay 3 dots triangle - triangle-shaped swamp Blackbeards cove - Mahone bay Mohune - Mahone bay Moonfleet Bay/beach - Mahone bay, moneypit 1716-1718 - 1700-1720 skeleton in flag - oak platforms/layers of oaks every 10 ft skeleton - coffer black flag - cape sable heart in flag - triangle-shaped swamp hour glass in flag - 50 percent sand? NY link - NY link Edward Teach - not far from Prince Edward island base in Atlantic - nearby Atlantic skull/cup/chalice/glass/"toasting devil" - "holy grail"? Blackbeard - Blankenship sandbar Ocracoke - Oak island 50 percent sand cocoa - coconut 10 pirates/kingsmen, 10/40 guns - 10/40 feet below 70 men - 7 men will die, 7 + 1 islands
Compare the 3 drops of blood triangle in above Blackbeard flag with 3 islands triangle in map below
Kidd - Oak Island: was in Fundy bay near Nova Scotia - Oak Isl off coast of Nova Scotia Cockenoe Isl - coconut, Cooke Moore - Monroe Money Cove - Money Pit Money Cove - Mahone bay "Robert Kidd" - Robin Squires? 1701 - 1700-1720 buried in sand - 50 percent sand 30/40 leagues - 10/40 feet 30/40 leagues - oak platforms/layers logs every 10 feet? skeleton isl - oak platforms/layers logs every 10 feet? NY - NY link Dauphinee - Marie Antionette theory Scottish - Nova Scotia
Blackbeard - Kidd: skeleton in flag - skeleton island? devil/Satan - Devil & Tom Walker (Irving)? hour glass, sandbar - buried in sand Blackbeards cove - Money cove Plum Point - Plum Island (DeMille)? 3 dots in flag, 3 ships - Trinity church NY 5/6 leagues - 30/40 leagues Col Moore - William Moore NY link - NY
Shugborough inscription - Oak Island et in Arcadia ego - Acadia (Nova Scotia) date 1748-1763/1766/1769 - date 1700-1720
Blackbeard - Shugborough inscription: Scarborough 1711 - Shugborough Oak Isl (Acadia) - "in Arcadia". "Moonfleet in Agro Dorcestrensi" (Falkner) - "in Arcadia".
The Blackbeard theory might be wrong though. Trying to pinpoint a starting date for the legend from the timelines there are maybe 5-9 possible dates: Kidd treasure stories 1701; Blackbeard treasure stories 1716-1718; (Shugborough inscription 1748-1763/1766/1769?) Earliest Oak Island treasure stories started 1795 (near French Revolution date); (Stone found early 1800s? Smith/stone 1823? Stone shwon 1850?) Stone first mentioned 1862; Oak Island treasure story first published 1856.
------------- NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 20-Apr-2019 at 01:33
Timeline for Teach/Blackbeard (and/or Oak Island) (not exhaustive of everywhere he went & when) :
(1581 Francis Drake knighted) 17th cent rise of American colonies pirates since 1660s c 1680/1680s Teach/Drummond/Blackbeard born 1698 piracy act last yrs of 17th c. Teach may've been in Caribbean on merchant vessel 17th & 18th cent West Indies setting for many maritime incidents ear 18th cent New Providence pirate base/hq War of Spanish Succession Queen Anne's War 18th cent expansion of slave trade 1700-1720 remains in Oak island * 1711 HMS Scarborough reported a pirate ship * 1715 wrecks of Spanish fleet 1716 New Providence (Hornigold) 1716-1718 Blackbeard/Barbenoire active ear 1717 Hornigold & Teach setout for mainland, Madeira to Charles Town 1717 piracy act 1717 sloops Robert & Good Intent stopped 1717 Hornigold demoted, retired 1717 stops merchant sloop Margaret off coast of Crab island late 1717 - ear 1718 movts unknown * 1717 attack off St Eustatius 1718 at Turneffe island 1718 Roger's landing at New Providence 1718 Spotswood Gov of Virginia new commission 1718 Knight onboard the Adventure 1718 awarded self rank of Commodore, height of power, Charlestown (5 or 6 leagues) * 1718 ran aground sandbar* 1718 Plum Point, Bath 1718 pardon; St Thomas Isl 1718 Cape Fear River 1718 war between Quadruple Alliance Delaware Bay 1718 Blackbeard killed aged 35-40 yo 1719 crew tried; Knight questioned 1722 Eden died 1736 engraving (Johnson's General History 1724/1725 / 18th cent) 1775 map Ocracoke Money Cove nearly 200 yrs bef/aft 1875 * Trinity Church, NY (Capt Kidd)? * more than 25 yrs after 1698 General History of Pirates late 1700s early settlers treasure stories begin appearing * 1819-1826 Jose Smith jnr treasure hunting 1823-1830/1838 Moroni, Cumorah, Mormon * 1835 Douglas' work 'Blackbeard' 1837 piracy act 1837 Elles' Pirates Own Book 1875 searches in Money Cove, west Grand Manan isl in Bay of Fundy * 1872 DeMille's novel Treasure of the Seas RLS's Treasure Island 1893 Oak Isl Treasure Company prospectus (10 feet below*) 1898 Moonfleet by Falkner (Mohune "Blackbeard") * 1920 Ferris' painting 'Capture of Blackbeard' 1929 Driscoll's book Oak Isl Treasure 1930s judge claims to have drunk from Blackbeards chalice 1949 True Tales of Buried Treasure ("40 ft below"*) 1949 another "money pit" found in Oak Island * 1951 Woodbury's Great Days of Piracy 1952 Walsh's film Blackbeard the Pirate 1961 Hamilton 'Pirates of the Spanish Main' 1968 'Blackbeard's Ghost' 1974 Lee 1978 Botting 'The Pirates' 1986 Gilbert 'Book of Pirates' 1989 book Blackbeard's Cup * 1995 Cordingly 'Under the Black Flag' 1996 wreckage presumed to be Q Anne's Revenge found 2002 Zack's book Pirate Hunter 2003 Pirates of the Caribbean 2005 'Blackbeard: Terror at Sea' 2006 Hallmark 'Blackbeard' mini-series 2007/2008 Konstam 'Complete History of Piracy' 2009 more than 2000 artifacts have been found from ship wreckage 2014 tv series Crossbones 2014-present Curse* of Oak Isl tv show 2016-2017 tv series Black Sails (2019 Blankenship's death aged 95 yo.) *
------------- NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2019 at 12:32
Your last entry in the timeline [2019] is more important than you realize.
Dan Blankenship, the main searcher since 1965, passed away March 28, 2019, at the age of 95. He hand dug the borehole labeled 10x. His son, Dave Blankenship remains involved in the present efforts.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2019 at 02:24
Why is it important? (I haven't done extensive research on this yet.) Edit post: Oh i see now from a search. You must be referring to "The 7th has died" and the alleged prophecy. I had thought only 6 had died so far.
That would make him born in 1924 exactly 100 yrs after 1822/1823/1824 Smith/Stone & Smith/Mormon date?
1939-45 Blankenship "war hero". Did Axis or Allies hide something there in the war?
1965/1967 is close to LaVey & Blackhouse 1966?
2019 close to 2020 the planned broadband deadline and Bill Gates' year?
Dan Blankenship & Dan Brown? White Ship of Norman times?
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The only other thing i thought of is a possible Atlantis connection (in the people involved minds). But i can't see why anyone would seriously think Atlantis is there (since no remains evidences) unless just a psychological game. 10x (and/or "9 knights templar) ~ 10 kings? "The Power of the Prophecy of Aztlan"? "U-shaped structure"?
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Wonder if the 7 people dying has anything to do with "buried by 7th king's foot" in 1847 in Deadman's "island" (Halifax)? There is also a Graves island nearby Chester. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadman's_Island_(Nova_Scotia) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_highlighting_Mahone_Bay,_Nova_Scotia.png
There is another island called Sable Island abit further away. Name means sand, and it is also called the Graveyard of the Atlantic (cf Kidd buried bible in sand, and compare sable with the black of Blackbeard). Is the final location of the Ark in one fiction book called The Templar Throne (cf Oak island supposed to be connected with templars and ark). Island is crescent shaped, maybe like the heart in Blackbeard's flag?
------------- NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.
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