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Gobekli Tepe

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31199
Printed Date: 28-Mar-2024 at 13:26
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Topic: Gobekli Tepe
Posted By: Don Quixote
Subject: Gobekli Tepe
Date Posted: 20-Feb-2012 at 01:32
Gobelkli Tepe is the oldest human religious sanctuary, build in 9,000 BC, although teh earliest construction may be 11,000 or even 12,000 BC http://essayweb.net/history/ancient/gobekli.shtml - http://essayweb.net/history/ancient/gobekli.shtml .
This map shows where the tepe/hill/  is:


This map puts the sites of the Neolithic in Asia Minor in context:
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Turkey/Gobekli/db_GobekliTepe_Urfa-Region9.jpg
Wwith green are marked the sites with aceramic Levantine Neolithic; withpurple the Catal Huyuk area; with yellow the Mesopotamian one; and the orange spot is the are where Gobekli Tepe is - smack in the middle of all other Neolithic  sites.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe%2C_Urfa.jpg">File:Göbekli Tepe, Urfa.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe%2C_Urfa.jpg - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

Plan for it:
http://grasptheuniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Gopekli_Tepe_BdW_2003-05_700px.jpgT-shaped stone slabs like this one are very common in Gobekli Tepe, with reliefs on them
http://essayweb.net/history/ancient/images/gobekli_foxie.jpg
The reliefs involve all kinds on animals, like lizards:

boar and something that looks like deer
http://www.crystalinks.com/gobeklitepewall.jpg
birds
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/27/article-0-03B05683000005DC-812_306x516.jpg








Replies:
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2012 at 19:32

This temple is believed to be the remains of the oldest known civilisation, founded over 12,000 years ago. At this time people still used stone tools and had just begun the transition from hunter-gatherers to farmers. The stone-carvings are very well-made for the time and evoke comparisons to Aztec art, while the round layout of the temple complex may have inspired the design of the lost city of Atlantis:
http://www.philipcoppens.com/gobekli.html - Gobekli Tepe


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2012 at 19:46
Nick, I made a thread on Gobekli Tepe couple of day ago here
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31186&PID=666177#666177 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31186&PID=666177#666177
would you mind if I move my post to your thread and erase mine, as yours is it's rightful place - I put mine in "Archeology and Anthropology"?





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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 22-Feb-2012 at 01:27
We can call it Turkish Stonehenge http://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=stonehenge&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStonehenge&ei=oYpET_fFGZKq8QPv9JnmBA&usg=AFQjCNH_nIKwzZnvuC9FOXti4iIslRaQfg&sig2=2MgNIYXUKBszPbsEgakGLA&cad=rja - , this will help Europeans to understand its importance

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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 22-Feb-2012 at 01:47
Mother's heads are all around Olios.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 23-Feb-2012 at 21:39
This is great thank you


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 23-Feb-2012 at 21:47
Sanctuary and temple are leading tittles. They may have been temples and also served other functions, i fear our interpretations of these spaces are tainted by something as simple as what we decide to call them.  Acres of flint litter the area and there is much evidence of trade and manufacturing in the region. These may have served also as trading centers, administrative centers, even housing or entertainment.


Posted By: unclefred
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2012 at 12:19
One major view is that this was a ceremonial center, and also a place of the dead. So far though, there have been no large skeletal findings to support that view. The site has years of digging lying ahead before the mystery is revealed. Obviously it had importance, or they wouldn't have bothered burying it. That it was left buried is a puzzle. 


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2012 at 12:40
Perhaps they were protecting it from marauding forces, in the same way mummies in Egypt were moved and reburied.  


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2012 at 14:28
It's a lonesome and desolate looking place....Unkie. Dead wandering about... no doubt howling in the night... echos of steel on steel, spirits fighting endless battles.
I would like it.

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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2012 at 19:29
Originally posted by Drusin

Sanctuary and temple are leading tittles. They may have been temples and also served other functions, i fear our interpretations of these spaces are tainted by something as simple as what we decide to call them.  Acres of flint litter the area and there is much evidence of trade and manufacturing in the region. These may have served also as trading centers, administrative centers, even housing or entertainment.

It may have served other functions in later years (like a cemetery), but the intricate carvings suggest a ritual function. Perhaps it was the palace of an ancient priest or king?


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2012 at 19:50
Here is an article that discusses potential uses of these ancient sites as a means of navigation.
http://www.celticnz.co.nz/articles.html - http://www.celticnz.co.nz/articles.html


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2012 at 19:51
It's a spooky place now but was verdant and full of wild life when it was settled.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 05:58
A 9m high pillar was found unfinished in the quarry which supplied the site. Is it possible that the structures were buried before completion? Then again it's also possible some social upheaval occurred.

Gobekli Tepe was buried under around 15,000 cubic feet of soil, which would require a level of coordination and effort on par with creating the site in the first place.

There are two likely reasons for the burial:

a. They may have been buried in order to protect them, as most other motives could be satisfied by a combination of toppling, smashing and burial.

b. Burying the stones may have been a religious practice, as part of a death or burial ritual.

Arguing in favor of protecting the site is possible conflict with a nearby agricultural settlement at Cayonu, which is believed to be the place where  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ay%C3%B6n%C3%BC - pigs were domesticated  and several early grain crops were first planted.

Darker events were also afoot at Caynou: “Archaeologists … unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood.[T]his may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress … victims were killed in huge death pits, children were buried alive in jars, others roasted in vast bronze bowls.” [ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html - Source ]

It is possible that Gobekli Tepe was considered sacred, or was threatened in some way by the rise of agricultural civilization.

http://www.erikorganic.com/green/9-steps-to-understanding-gobekli-tepe/ - http://www.erikorganic.com/green/9-steps-to-understanding-gobekli-tepe/



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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 11:13
To understand exactly what Gobekli was will require considerably more excavation than what's been done to date.  That includes a vast area surrounding it.  "Bronze Bowls"?  Bronze is an alloy, a mix of copper and tin.  It isn't found in nature.  So now your looking at a "Hunter-Gatherer society that had the knowledge of and the ability to smelt copper and tin, and the ability to work it.
Somethings not right here.
Can you say "Post apocolyptic"?
 
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 11:26
Originally posted by red clay

To understand exactly what Gobekli was will require considerably more excavation than what's been done to date.  That includes a vast area surrounding it.  "Bronze Bowls"?  Bronze is an alloy, a mix of copper and tin.  It isn't found in nature.  So now your looking at a "Hunter-Gatherer society that had the knowledge of and the ability to smelt copper and tin, and the ability to work it.
Somethings not right here.
Can you say "Post apocolyptic"?
 
 
Could we be looking at a revaluation of the term bronze age with this site being much earlier? 

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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 13:00
hI,  I just read the linked article and I have a thought about the sacrifices.  Perhaps they were executed in public as an example of the power of the state disguised openly as religion.  I think it's all a matter of semantics; our interpretations.  When we use the word sacrifice it conjures up all sorts of implications linked with magic and the occult.  We then begin to dwell in this realm of mystique where we try to understand what they were thinking rather than focusing on what they were actually doing.  Likewise perhaps the Otzi man was killed by armed guards, be they the arms of God of the state or some admix of both. 


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 15:43
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by red clay

To understand exactly what Gobekli was will require considerably more excavation than what's been done to date.  That includes a vast area surrounding it.  "Bronze Bowls"?  Bronze is an alloy, a mix of copper and tin.  It isn't found in nature.  So now your looking at a "Hunter-Gatherer society that had the knowledge of and the ability to smelt copper and tin, and the ability to work it.
Somethings not right here.
Can you say "Post apocalyptic"?
 
 
Could we be looking at a revaluation of the term bronze age with this site being much earlier? 
 
 
I don't think so.  Apparently the technology behind bronze was lost.  The copper age preceded the bronze.
 
Post apocalyptic goes with the belief in a previous civilization as advanced or more so than our own.  After whatever global disaster knocked it out, there would still have been pockets of that civilization, some possibly untouched.  This would explain isolated advanced cultures of extreme   antiquity.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 17:09
I also am more likely to go along with major natural disasters as a contributor to the collapse of the age in this region then most historians and archaeologists...especially which you consider the geophysical nature and history of past activity. Couple this with the plausibility and probability of similar in the region and social upheaval due to wars... invasions etc...and you have a more realistic theory then it was just the unnamed Sea Peoples alone, for example, who did it.
 
In other words multiplicity of cause saw the collapse...not precisely singularity as can be readily identified.


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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 20:00
That's an interesting idea Red. So Gobekli Tepe was just a small outpost of a larger, more advanced civilisation?

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 21:52
Plausibility and probability say yes..without answering for Red.
If Shanidar cave can be occupied on and off for 100,000 years, and by neanderthal from 60-80,000BC/BP if ya buy the research of Ralph Solecki and others..why not. And off topic slightly; depending on your viewpoint it might also be the first example of religious ceremonies associated in burials. Case in point Shanidar 4 man and ....according to Melinda Zeder's research and theory based on her finding of Shanidar 10 man..Altho there is a counter that the pollen based evidence might have been introduced by rodents.
 
And it's another fine example of what I stated above.....''with major natural disasters as a contributor to the collapse of the age in this region then most historians and archaeologists..In other words multiplicity of cause saw the collapse...not precisely singularity as can be readily identified.''
 
If Shanidar interests you see the link: https://humanorigins.si.edu/search/google-appliance/shanidar%20cave - https://humanorigins.si.edu/search/google-appliance/shanidar%20cave
 
 


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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 01:20
Bulding a hill of dirt over sacred objects was done in Ancient Thrace with some of the royal tombs - the tombs were build and after this an artificial mound was piled on them, this is connected with seeing the mountians as sacred, hence putting a human-build structure and making it a hill was putting it is the "sacred space". The mountain was considered one of the symbols of the mother Goddess-Earth/Nature. In teh Thracian Orphism the sacred initiantions were done in a cave under a mountain - almos literally in the "womb of Earth/Goddess".

Hence, the deliberate burying can be seen as putting the whole temple or whatever we may call it in the "sacred space" and in this way making it "really sacred". Mountains of dirt had been made in other places, China. North America. The Egyptian pyramids are nothing but artificial mountains that contain the Pharaoh's tomb to put it in the "sacred space".




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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 01:38
It was connected with their "sense of order":content the Mother and order will stay preserved on Earth!
In Egypt pharaoh communicated with Mother and even dead would have preserved Her anger against their
people.Cult could be started with Human presence on Earth.Gobekli  shows us institutionalized religion with
well developed symbolic&religious objects for it.


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 01:55
Yes, the only clearly identifyable deity on Gobelki Tepe is Mother Goddess. There is a bull too, and this is the combination which is found in Catal Huyuk also - Mother-Goddess and the bull.


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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 02:23
My syllables says that in their concept of universe,Bull or cattle1.caries mother's head or 2.bull has mother
head.We talked about it before."Other" gods&goddess were Her appearances on Earth,better said  reincarnation forms.We are all part of Her reincarnation("Ri").Monotheistic religious cult dominate from the beginning of our civilization.


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 02:47
Yes, what you call "her appearances" I call "Mother-Goddess aspects", it's the same thing. Mother-Goddess is Nature-seen-as-one, hence monotheistic religious cult/faith, /no matter what word we are going to use/.

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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 10:13
Originally posted by Nick1986

That's an interesting idea Red. So Gobekli Tepe was just a small outpost of a larger, more advanced civilisation?
 
Or what was left of one.


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 11:35
I'm in agreement here about the site being a part of a larger network and community.



Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 19:04
This changes everything we know about the Stone Age. If early man smelted bronze that early then reverted to stone tools, it's possible Gobekli Tepi was the main trading center for this valuable commodity. Or perhaps they were the first empire, ruling over their more primitive neighbors until they were overthrown and the secrets of bronze forgotten?

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 10:35
Mt Toba erupted approx. 75,000 ybp. reducing humans to pockets of survivors totaling less than 10,000.  However, considering our civilization evolved in less than 15,000 years,  there's 60,000 years left, plenty of time for an entire civilization to have evolved and vanish.   Toba's destruction was pretty total, there's no clear evidence left behind of any advanced civ. prior to the eruption. However, they have found some evidence in the Urals, where they are finding fragments of Nano tech. as well as other unidentifiable manufactured items at a stratigraphic level of 100,000 ybp.
 
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 10:49
Please explain Nano tech here Red?I do not work with archeology terminology well.Maybe picture or link will
present us more what did they find there.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 18:06
This was found in the Ural mountains
http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/arkaim-russias-ancient-city-the-arctic-origin-of-civilisation - http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/arkaim-russias-ancient-city-the-arctic-origin-of-civilisation


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 11:39
The Nat Geographic channel had a special on last nite about Gobekli.  All that you've seen in the pics on the net doesn't begin to show the enormous scale of it.
The sections that we have seen were built approx 11,500 ybp.  There are other sections not yet fully excavated that date to 15,000 ybp.
 
What is interesting is that the first temples were very large.  As time went on they were filled in and covered over, then a smaller version was built on top.  This kept going until it just became a "Hill".
Even more interesting was a statement made by one of those working on it.  "The oldest sections date to 15,000 ybp.  Where did the engineering and stone working skills come from? If they learned from trial and error you could figure it took at least another thousand years."
BTW- The T shaped stone with the lizard was carved from one monolith, as were all of the others.
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 19:12
Originally posted by red clay

Mt Toba erupted approx. 75,000 ybp. reducing humans to pockets of survivors totaling less than 10,000.  However, considering our civilization evolved in less than 15,000 years,  there's 60,000 years left, plenty of time for an entire civilization to have evolved and vanish.   Toba's destruction was pretty total, there's no clear evidence left behind of any advanced civ. prior to the eruption. However, they have found some evidence in the Urals, where they are finding fragments of Nano tech. as well as other unidentifiable manufactured items at a stratigraphic level of 100,000 ybp.
 
 
 
Yepper....Gibbons, Ambrose... Rampolino et.al...I recall it well. Fits in nicely with plausibility and probability of multi cause, especially natural, that the PHD egg heads disdain. Course most of them remain feigned intellectualists, tied to the grant endowment system and fear of denying the theorems they were taught.LOL


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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 20:40
That centrix I believe is true and a big part of the problem.  Status quo wants to stay that way, I think a lot of experts would be reduced to waiting tables.  What really gets me is the insistence that every activity of antiquity is for some ceremonial event.  It's as though ancient man did little else except prey and offer sacrifices. I think they were worshiping the gods of commerce as much as we do today.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2012 at 11:12
Originally posted by Drusin

That centrix I believe is true and a big part of the problem.  Status quo wants to stay that way, I think a lot of experts would be reduced to waiting tables.  What really gets me is the insistence that every activity of antiquity is for some ceremonial event.  It's as though ancient man did little else except prey and offer sacrifices. I think they were worshiping the gods of commerce as much as we do today.
 
 
Schmidt, the arch. that has been working on Gobekli since 1994, has postulated that religion, in this case anyway, came before everything else.  It is thought that religion came after social organisation and cities.  Schmidt's theory holds that at Gobekli religion came first, that it was the reason for the constructions and social org. came later.
 
Be careful when your looking around the net.  I've seen datings that are all over the spectrum.  And the tut-tutting and bluster from folks who proclaim to have knowledge of everything is thick.  The "creationists" are doing a better job than usual of making fools of themselves trying to explain the antiquity of the site.
 
What's being missed in most of the articles is that the temples were not "filled in all at once" as most articles say.  The first Temples were filled in, and then a smaller version was built on top.  This continued to several levels.  But the larger temples, 1st layer, weren't filled at the same times. This apparently happened over a considerable period of time.
Also, there are many "hills" not just one.
 
 
                                   
 
The level that this figure is on was dated at 11,500 ybp.  And while the temple on this level is huge, there is another complete one that is larger, that was buried to provide a platform for this level.  No reasons for this have yet been found.  To date, the earliest construction has been dated to 15,000 ybp.  However, with only about 5% of the site investigated, dating that is considerably older isn't out of the question.
This site has already turned history as we know it upside down.  There's no doubt in my mind that when this site has been more fully investigated there will be a load of history books that will have to be revised.  Not to mention the amount of crow that will have to be consumed by many.Wink
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2012 at 19:26
Why did they replace the original structure with smaller buildings? To me, this sounds like the result of a catastrophic, irreversable population decline

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2012 at 01:04
It may have been a ritual of sanctification - first, the sanctuaries in their original size were covered, literally buried to put them in sacred space; then a smaller, "human" version is build on the top that is used by humans for current religious purposes - the structures that are on the top draw their sacred meaning/power from those that are buried; those that are buried are sacred because they are in the womb of Mother-Earth=Mpther Goddess, who is the only one identifiable deity on the cite.

Similar thing was done in 4th century BC China - royal toms were buried in the ground and a temple was put on the top or next to the resulting mount. http://gallery.sjsu.edu/oldworld/asiangate/chinesetombs/tomb-tombs-page.htm - http://gallery.sjsu.edu/oldworld/asiangate/chinesetombs/tomb-tombs-page.htm   Also, the Caddo people of Texas did the same thing - making mounds over tombs and putting a small thatched temple on the top of it http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/kids/caddo/mounds.html - http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/kids/caddo/mounds.html    . There are other parallels on such sacntification, which is being done in cultures separated in time and space, so I'll attribute it to shared human archetyped thinking, rather that to cultural borrowing.

However, such borrowing is evident between Anatolia and the Balkans, where the Mother-goddess cult prospered for  along time in the Ancient Thracian culture. The Starosell tomb was turned into a mound by deliberately burying it
http://www.balkantravellers.com/images/stories/news10/starosel_thraician_tomb.JPG
and all Thracian dolmens were oriented toward certain big hills to sanctify them, because the mountains were seen as sacred, being literally the pregnant belly of Mother-Earth-Goddess. The Thracian Cotys came from the Anatolian Cybele, who came from the Mother-Goddes on Gobekli Tepe. Hence, Anatolia and the Balkans, and Mycenean Greece can be seen as one cultural continuation; when the Dorians came and got established in Greece, the Greeks developed their culture in a different direction, while the Thracian retained the older Asia-Minor-influenced culture that connected them with Anatolia, so explanations for what the historical reality may have been in Anatolia may be searched in what has been discovered in Thrace. The prehistory of the Balkans and Anatolia has been connected since times immemorial.


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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2012 at 10:49
Originally posted by Nick1986

Why did they replace the original structure with smaller buildings? To me, this sounds like the result of a catastrophic, irreversable population decline
 
 
It would appear that way at first.  But the evidence shows that the backfilling occurred over a very long period of time and that the first level temples were not buried at the same time.  Also, the 2nd level buildings were almost the same size as the first.
I go along with DQ on this one.
 
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2012 at 11:09
Mountain was Mother's arm.Control of arm they put to dead one,powerful on Earth and glorious.It was the same in America:deep beneath pyramid was buried Leader,Terrestrial representation of Her!This reminds me about volcano.Control of Volcanoes eruptions looks powerful even today!Smile


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2012 at 20:05
That's got me thinking of the Aztec pyramids and Sumerian ziggurats. A new temple was built on top of the existing one so the priests could get closer to the gods

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2012 at 20:23
That's right, there are many such examples in many cultures.

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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2012 at 19:41
When was it abandoned, and are there any clues as to the reasons for this?

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2012 at 19:53


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2012 at 04:11
Originally posted by Nick1986

When was it abandoned, and are there any clues as to the reasons for this?


Maybe we won't learn because of archaeological thefts. One head figure which was 11.000 years old, was stolen in Göbeklitepe. 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/archaeologist-pays-for-stolen-statues-head.aspx?pageID=238&nID=17554&NewsCatID=375 - http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/archaeologist-pays-for-stolen-statues-head.aspx?pageID=238&nID=17554&NewsCatID=375







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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır


Posted By: ds_baker
Date Posted: 26-Jun-2012 at 00:58
I am so very happy to have found this forum.-Extremely well thought out replies and considered opinions. I am very new to topics such as this. So I am begging your indulgence. This site in Turkey points to the fact however inconvenient, that humans and ordered society existed a lot longer or father back than previously thought. 

It is the slow grinding defeat of hypothesis that is at stake. Universally colleges and universities have taught theory X and now with the internet and such sites as this, a growing preponderance of evidence is mounting to challenge or even overthrow the basic principals that early human beings were brutal knuckle dragging idiots. It is often the hubris of the modern man to think that somehow our collective shared ancestors were less intelligent than we are today.

The main difference today is that we have the collective knowledge of ages to draw upon. That doesn't mean our ancient ancestors were less than intelligent, in fact owing to this site and sites such as Newgrange point to the fact that in certain venues they were smarter than we are today.

I have read theories that state Humans as we can easily recognize today walking the streets of the world have been on this planet for at least 100,000 years. Since the Bronze age (Approximate Dating) started some where around 3300 BCE or what ever term your comfortable using, we are now into the second millennium of the Current Era. If I am doing the math correct, that is roughly 5,312 years... In that time we have gone from smelting copper, then adding tin to make bronze. Later we learned how to make iron and then steel.-You can see the progression of technology.

My question to this august forum, What the heck did we do before we learned to smelt copper or make bronze? How many times have humans risen only to fall back? Let's just round it out-we went from learning how to domesticate animals to walking on the moon in less than 10,000 years. This is a teasing question I ask archaeologist friends: "How many times have we been to the Moon?"

Please if this reply and questions are out of place re-post them someplace else.
Thank you  

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
-Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: unclefred
Date Posted: 26-Jun-2012 at 11:03

Technology, and other evolutionary systems grow exponentially as complexity increases. Each technological era, as it becomes more complex, accelerates in the speed of development. 

http://www.kurzweilai.net/kurzweils-law-aka-the-law-of-accelerating-returns - http://www.kurzweilai.net/kurzweils-law-aka-the-law-of-accelerating-returns


http://www.michaelturner.us/2008/04/06/exponential-acceleration-of-evolution/ - http://www.michaelturner.us/2008/04/06/exponential-acceleration-of-evolution/



Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 15:37
I hope this is useful Sharwina

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2012 at 00:35
We live our cycle of civilization's rise.According Plato there were many of them.SmileWe are winners we do not live the fall of civilization.The Start of Fall?Who knows?


Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 08-May-2013 at 11:44
[TUBE]MtRkXeALe4E[/TUBE]

[TUBE]3JdAJpo6Lxk[/TUBE]




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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 09-May-2013 at 11:42
Actually, they have found a section of the site that is dated to 15,000 bce.  The question here is, how long were they in the area before they built this?  Where did they come from?  They had to have considerable engineering abilities. I don't believe this was their first and only project.  They had to have had previous experience. 
 
I think the dating on these folks can be pushed back to 20,000 bce. ????
 
 


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2013 at 23:11
Just for balance, the Fomenko Group considers this site as being from the 13th century CE or later. It is considered as a Cossack fortress.

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2013 at 23:48

If that's true, then it's a sure thing none of them has visited the site,  or considered the region as a whole.

Might also find out what they are smoking, must be dynomite stuff.Big smile



-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 00:19
Actually Red, if you ever got off of your high horse, and actually read the Fomenko material, you might well change your tune?

Regards to you and your championship tomatoes!

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: ds_baker
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 09:45
I know this is off topic, but I wonder if and when we get to the moon again... will we find remnants of an earlier civilization? Sometimes I think we go so far forward we eventually meet our beginnings.  

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
-Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 10:11
Originally posted by opuslola

Actually Red, if you ever got off of your high horse, and actually read the Fomenko material, you might well change your tune?

Regards to you and your championship tomatoes!

Ron
 
 
I have read enough to know I don't need to read the rest.  I put Fomenko in the same catagory as "Ancient Aliens".
My kids used to play "what if".  They were much better at it.
 
 


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 10:39
Originally posted by ds_baker

I know this is off topic, but I wonder if and when we get to the moon again... will we find remnants of an earlier civilization? Sometimes I think we go so far forward we eventually meet our beginnings.  
 
 
I'm one of those folks who believes we were to the moon before the Apollo missions.  Sometime in our past, prior to the Mt Toba eruption,  there was a civilization that was as advanced as we are now, possibly more so.
There's evidence in many places, it's been misinterpreted or flat out ignored as it doesn't fit with the "religous timelines".
 
The expression "Ooparts", out of place artifacts, was invented to describe some of this evidence.
 
 
   


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 12:32

Plato's Atlantis came from it?It is hard to believe Plato was extra futurist?At least time travaler,who knows?!?Smile



Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 18:26
Med. there's considerable evidence for an Ice Age civ. as well.  Considering that our civ. developed in roughly 10,000 years, there is no reason that another could have developed.  There is also enough time for it to have nearly vanished.  20,000 ybp the ocean levels were about 300 ft lower than now.  Recent discoveries in India and elsewhere indicate there is much we don't know.
 
But to assign Gobekli to the 13th Cent. is just nuts.  It's antiquity is obvious.
 
 


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2013 at 20:18
Originally posted by red clay

Originally posted by ds_baker

I know this is off topic, but I wonder if and when we get to the moon again... will we find remnants of an earlier civilization? Sometimes I think we go so far forward we eventually meet our beginnings.  

 

 

I'm one of those folks who believes we were to the moon before the Apollo missions.  Sometime in our past, prior to the Mt Toba eruption,  there was a civilization that was as advanced as we are now, possibly more so.

There's evidence in many places, it's been misinterpreted or flat out ignored as it doesn't fit with the "religous timelines".

 

The expression "Ooparts", out of place artifacts, was invented to describe some of this evidence.


You say the above and call Fomenko and me, goofy? Maybe you should write Sci-Fi for a living? Smile!

Thanks for the good words, however!

Regards, Ron
 

 

   


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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2013 at 11:47
There are some 200 settlements under the Meditteranean that were inundated approx. 10,000 ybp, they have yet to be explored.
 
That's just for starters.  I could detail 3-4 pages of actual physical evidence, but I don't have time now.  All you and Fomenko have is a pile of conjecture and calculations done with statistical equations, which do not function when dealing with time and history. Harry Seldon would laugh you out of town.
 
To view the entire site at Gobekli, only 10% has been excavated over 20 years and proclaim it a "Cossack Fortress" is goofy.  It shows a complete ignorance of the site itself, but also the region it's in.  Gobekli doesn't stand alone.  They have found many smaller corresponding sites within the region.
Show me evidence of Cossack megalithic building, structures elswhere that have been positively identified as Cossack.  Give me proof that the Cossacks had the skills to produce 20 ft stone columns with strange animals carved out of them.
Gobekli [pot belly hill] has been known for millennia, the Cossacks have been known of for............
 
I doubt that you've seen any of the specials done on Gobekli.  If you had your common sense would tell you it's of extreme age, and nothing else out of the region compares with it.
 
Perhaps Fomenko has a theory as to why each level was carefully backfilled and a newer smaller structure built on top, and then eventually covered the entire complex in earth.
 
 


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 11:03
Red Clay, I did not say that I support the Fomenko view of this site, but merely let you know that they have written about it. Certainly the excavations have revealed a great deal more.

Regards, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: ds_baker
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2014 at 11:38
This is a generalized reply: OOPARTS.-The radiation half life of most nuclear weapons is 50,000 years. After that what ever they might have done in a destructive manner or had left over in the way of radiation is gone. Humans have been comfortably recognized as we think human looks like, for at least 800,000 years. I mean that is waaaay back. If it took us 50,000 years to go from stone age grunting to standing on the moon, how many times have we risen only to have fallen. And just for those who watch those silly shows. -I absolutely do not subscribe to Aliens "Lifting" us out of pulling the dead fleas off our bodies.

I do however think that there is the possibility that we ourselves our genetic ancestors... once upon a time had a different civilization(s) than the ones we inherited. WE could have had completely different God's and Goddess. -Which incidentally I think is one of the reasons a lot of this information is ignored or even suppressed. I also think that our planet looked different, had different weather patterns. Deserts were once lush verdant land. They have pulled core samples out of Antarctica that has the frozen remains of ferns and palm trees.

Seeing animals that appear bizarre or sinister to us, might have been an everyday occurrence 14,000 years ago. I don't have any evidence. I am not a scientist. I am not even a pseudo scientist. But what I do, do is keep my mind open to certain possibilities. I really think Humans and NOT ALIENS are responsible for all the wonderful and tantalizing objects we find today.  

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
-Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2014 at 13:23
But Gobekli shows us that last cycle of civilization has started there,14000 years ago!What did
we create before it?!?


Posted By: ds_baker
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2014 at 17:05
That's what I want to know. Seriously what was that horrible movie again ? 10,000 BC with that giant Raptorsaurus Rex bird running through the jungle eating people.  That is actually not that far from the truth when it comes to the giant Moa. Although I don't think it was a carnivore... I reserve the right to be wrong. So what did the megafauna look like older than 10,000 BC??? Besides the Dire Wolves and Mastodons or Smilodons or the variously funky Rhinos? Once upon a time I think this place was a lot scarier and funkier than most of us could imagine. 

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
-Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2014 at 01:21
Originally posted by ds_baker

This is a generalized reply: OOPARTS.-The radiation half life of most nuclear weapons is 50,000 years. After that what ever they might have done in a destructive manner or had left over in the way of radiation is gone. Humans have been comfortably recognized as we think human looks like, for at least 800,000 years. I mean that is waaaay back. If it took us 50,000 years to go from stone age grunting to standing on the moon, how many times have we risen only to have fallen. And just for those who watch those silly shows. -I absolutely do not subscribe to Aliens "Lifting" us out of pulling the dead fleas off our bodies.

I do however think that there is the possibility that we ourselves our genetic ancestors... once upon a time had a different civilization(s) than the ones we inherited. WE could have had completely different God's and Goddess. -Which incidentally I think is one of the reasons a lot of this information is ignored or even suppressed. I also think that our planet looked different, had different weather patterns. Deserts were once lush verdant land. They have pulled core samples out of Antarctica that has the frozen remains of ferns and palm trees.

Seeing animals that appear bizarre or sinister to us, might have been an everyday occurrence 14,000 years ago. I don't have any evidence. I am not a scientist. I am not even a pseudo scientist. But what I do, do is keep my mind open to certain possibilities. I really think Humans and NOT ALIENS are responsible for all the wonderful and tantalizing objects we find today.  
 
ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap
 
There have been earth changing events since there was an Earth.  Mt Toba erupted some 70,thoudsand years bp.  Geneticist have fro years known of a genetic bottleneck, caused by this eruption.  We were reduced to pockets of less than 10 thousand..  Who knows what the gene pool was like prior.
In the urals and caucasas, they continually find evidence of advanced nano technology, dated to some 14000 years befor present.
 
I'll have to pixck this up ttomm as m y sleeingt aid just kicked it


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: ds_baker
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2014 at 10:27
Red-Please tell me more about what you have found in our distant past. I don't care where you start. Just make sure I can follow it here on the board. Big smile -I remember seeing an image as a kid, of a what looked like a high voltage anode or even a battery, with a ceramic core, which was embedded inside a geode. -Which incidentally takes a minimum of 10,000 years to create in nature. 

This post is all over the map. So I apologize for that. But what of the stones that were carved in Peru or Chile, that modern day three axis water jet milling machines would find next to impossible to carve?  Or the Temple Complex submerged off the coast of Japan? I can understand people saying it is natural until you find right angle joints, or fitted stone. -Especially when they look very similar to the fitted stones fount in Machu-Picchu. Nature can make a lot of strange linear shapes. The Giant's Causeway in Antrim Northern Ireland. Hexagonal shapes. The Devil's Tower in Wyoming which repeats the hexagonal shape. (The Devil's Tower is the exposed inner core of a dead volcano, for those who are not familiar with it from the movie Close Encounters.) So Nature can make interesting shapes in a linear fashion. But what they usually do not do is make 90 shapes. Or make uniform square or rectangular shapes. So if you could imagine a world with a massive amount of water tied up in glaciers all over the planet... would explain when those glaciers melted, their temple complexes might just be under water...

Please pick a topic. I really want to know more. And I absolutely hate listening to the info-commercials that the old Art Bell show has turned into.

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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
-Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: ds_baker
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2014 at 10:29
I meant to say 90 Degree angles or joints.



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
-Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2014 at 12:59
I'm not supposed to be posting on forums anymore after bad arguments experiences on forums (partly my fault) but will post this (but please don't be too critical of me).

I am not a Fomenkoist and don't want to be banned like Opuslola but personally i don't agree that there are many sites like GT dating 10s or 1000s of years bp/bc. We have 4 choices: the new immense antiquity of "not primitives" man scheme, the old/hitherto/orthodox evolutionary linear progressive development (cave-men) scheme, the biblical scheme, the fomenko scheme. The truth is between extremes. I don't know all the answer(s) about Gobekli tepe yet but here are some possible considerations: (note i had some other notes from months/year ago but seem to have lost them due to cursed bad new windows 7/8 and bad new laptop problems)

- The dating is not proven fact but theory. Most such orthodox dating is untrue. Radiocarbon dating is proven unreliable and it depends on the rate having always been same as now.
"the site has turned history as we know it upsidedown" shows that orthodox scheme has been and can still be wrong.
The 3 ages (Stone [GT], Bronze, Iron) scheme was taken from traditonal 3 world ages.

- The fact that it is a religious sanctuary & the temple would connect with biblical world view.

- Eden: Strange animals may connect with Eden? (GT is not far from bit-adini and adana?). The "(hill with a) navel/(pot)belly" may connect with Eden or Eve? Mother earth goddess = eve. "a naked woman/Venus" [~ Eve?] "Cain & Abel ~ hunting-gathering Vs farmers" (tho i don't agree with Abel/H&G just Cain/farming).

- Ark: Strange animals etc may connect with Noah's Ark.
Neolithic cames after Palaeolithic. Palaeolithic was post-flood because meat-eating & hunting, and ice age was post-flood unstable climate.

- Babel: "Temple & city" recall Tower & city of Babel? Nemrik ~ Nimrod/Nisroch? Hunter gatherers connect with Nimrod. (They say built by hunter gatherers and seem to suggest hunting evidence in remains, but they say "no hunting" evidence in pictures?) Catal Huyuk must date after Nimrod/Babel and age of Taurus (hunting, bull/horns). (Pyramids/ziggurats come after Babel.) ("Cathedral on a hill" sound abit like Babel too?)
"a naked woman/Venus" [~ "Semiramis"?]

- Ur: The site is not far from possible sites of Haran (Haran? Hallan Cemi?) and Ur of Chaldees ("Urfa"? Urkesh (habur, one river over from balih)? Lochore's 'Uru'?).

- The "Helwan" connection is interesting in that at Helwan [mesolithic?] they found advanced remains like crystal skull &/or clothes/needles or something (i can't remember exactly without looking up).

I wonder what 'Sharrukin' would have to say (about GT not my post).


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2014 at 18:16
Art-Robin, I've been following your posts for years. Both here and other forums. I don't always agree with you, however your depth of research and attention to detail and voluntary willingness to accept or at least entertain alternative concepts has always been impressive.
 
You've been a member here as long as I have.  In my mind you've earned yourself a position of respect and the right to call AE your "web home".
 
Progress is made by the presentation of new ideas and the examining of old ones that have been either ignored or dismissed by the "mainstream".
 
New technology and remote viewing has increased our knowledge of the past greatly and has broadened acceptability of ideas previously held ridiculous or impossible.  A good example is the recent mapping of Egypt by satellite and computer enhancement.  It's exposed not hundreds, but thousands of unknown Old Kingdom sites, across the entire country.
 
 


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 18-Feb-2014 at 23:35
(Wow,) thank-you Red clay. I had thought AE was founded years before but i do now see that the joined dates are close (unless was a previous admin). (You &) everyone has interesting ideas/info here and on other forums. The Old Kdm info is interesting (thanks). I may not be posting much any more though as today another new problem with new windows/laptop with not being able to move cursor quickly anymore which means i can hardly write on computer very easily anymore. Sorry for off-topic but thought i better had say thanks.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 19-Feb-2014 at 00:14
install antivirus program!It costs 10-13 EU per year!But you have to reinstall Windows first!Good and bad thing are always going together!Smile


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2014 at 00:29
The Great Flood was Global. Egyptian was postFlood. Noah's ark is found in predynastic drawings. 10 godkings, 10 patriarchs. Etc. Though Cush/Gihon was a preflood land/river.
The Mesopotamian flood (interglacial?) was local so they could have fled to Turkey as you say. (Egypt is same latitude band so maybe it was flooded too.)
I don't think the Sphinx was pre-[Great] flood. The rain marks may rather be from the unstable weather (and ice age/pluvial) after the flood (similar to Tepe Gawra houses/strata). (Cambridge History gave evidence that Egypt Old Kingdom climate was cooler/wetter. Mohenjo-daro was also wetter/cooler climate (and people were Combe-Capellids).) (Similar rain marks in Cyprus at Sarmast's "Atlantis" site. The torential rain evidence in valley of Mexico might possibly be connected too?) Atlantis account says Egypt was not flooded (except by Nile) during dynastic times? Surid's flood was 12th dynasty.


Preflood world ("Siriadic land") is preflood home of all.
Babel not Egypt is the home of all postFlood royalty & paganism. (Tho some say Babel was in Egypt.) Though Nimrod was son of Cush (like "kings son of Kush"), though that may be Elamite Napirisha & Susinak. Nimrod is Ninurta (or Ningirsu/Nimirud). [Not sure of Egyptian cognate for Nimrod but possible candidates have included Min, Maneros, Anhuret, Narmer(za), etc.]
Cush/Gihon is only silver age (after Havilah/Pishon golden age). Late Egyptians admitted that the Phrygians (becos) were older. Egyptians (gods) came from Punt?

Agriculture: Adam cursed to work/till the ground. Cain tiller of soil. Noah planted vineyard in Ararat area (word vine/wine traced to same area). Nimrod/Ninurta/Numitorem "saved people from starvation by growing crops". Joseph saved Egypt & world from the famine.
Maybe Cain could be connected with Egypt though?
Modern orthodox sources agree that the oldest [postFlood] agriculture & civilisation spots are in a crescent in the [ne syria/e turkey/armenia/north mesopotamia/nw iran] area?

(My web/net (& food/hunger/water, etc) strike has been postponed a day or two due to circumstances until i am able. PS I have deleted all my blog posts due to hell suffering, so the Atlantis article mentioned in Atlantis thread is not there anymore.)


Posted By: Explorer
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2014 at 11:39
I'm waiting for Andrew Collins new book this fall

And I think they have the right dating. As far as "other" civilizations, I'm waiting for round two on those South American skulls, etc. That is a story from never never land - and I'm sure their just as real as the dire wolf.

And the comet impact of 12.9BC was far bigger then they think. I think that humans in the northern hemisphere came very close to extinction. I no longer by any stretch of the imagination believe the "paradigm", nor do I buy their books.

Personal call. ---- the "fringe" in the past got it right. Guess who the "fringe" is now and there is nothing more dangerous then a historian or archaeologist who is about to lose his funding.   

I think that Firestone, et.al. should be required reading and GT is directly related to it. Humans just don't go from scratching sticks for a cooking fire to building monuments aligned with the Milankovitch cycles.


Posted By: Explorer
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2014 at 11:45
I should clarify that last statement. They do go from sticks to astronomical alignments but not in the currant frame of timing. we are still dealing with people who think the oceans were barriers instead of highways.

they probably were a lot safer then trying to navigator I-5 in L.A. during rush hour.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2014 at 13:52
Explorer the firestone (not (just) the book but the firestone) would be interesting to know more about (since this topic is Gobekli Tepe). Is there an connection with the Easter Island fire-bird?

Flux, some good/interesting things. I differ on some things from my own research though. Amen/Amon/Amun/Hammon may be Ham. Amon only came to fore after 5th dynasty?
When exactly in Egyptian history did the interglacial &/or end of Ice Age flood/s occur? Various alternative scholars do give evidence that the ice age/s ended later than orthodox have it eg Jim Nienhuis, the submerged places like Yoniguni, etc. Surid's flood was 12th dynasty?
Sunday as the "christian" "sabbath" only goes back to early Roman/"Catholic" church, from pre-christian-era pagan sun cult. The 7 spheres is Babylonian. Some say it went stellar -> lunar -> solar.
It does all go back to one true/false first- -religion/-king/-antichrist/-theocracy/etc but not sure that Egypt was it, i think Biblical & the sons of god & Babel were.

PS/Btw i haven't compared them yet but i had thought of whether GT & Skara Brae circles may be similar/connected?

[this may be my last post since not sure what future holds going through this rough period and withdrawing from everything due to hell suffering.]


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2016 at 19:10
This topic had come upon  Hancock forum for anyone interested:
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1058481
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1058481 - http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1058481
Historyfiles has 3 pages on it:
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli02.htm
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli02.htm - http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli02.htm
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli03.htm
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli03.htm - http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli03.htm
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli01.htm - http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli01.htm
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli01.htm
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli01.htm - http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesMiddEast/PrehistoryAnatolia_Gobekli01.htm
Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobekli_Tepe

It looked like there was mention of 7 circles somewhere but i can't find it (only 4+16=20 circles). Does anyone know if there was a 7 circles there?



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