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Scythians - Mongols, Tartars or .....????

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31002
Printed Date: 23-Apr-2024 at 09:37
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Topic: Scythians - Mongols, Tartars or .....????
Posted By: PanzerOberst
Subject: Scythians - Mongols, Tartars or .....????
Date Posted: 17-Jan-2012 at 04:16
Hello everyone, am a bit in the dark on this matter. I hope somebody can enlighten me on this matter, about who they are & their origins. 

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"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows"
- Heinz W. Guderian



Replies:
Posted By: white knight
Date Posted: 19-Jan-2012 at 04:58
Mongol = Tartar, warfare patterned from Scythian, Scythian from Parthia and probably from the Volga river


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 19-Jan-2012 at 19:10
From what i understand, the Scythians were Mongols who settled near Iran. Their descendents intermarried with the locals and include the Huns, Alans and Tatars


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 19-Jan-2012 at 19:41
No they were not Mongols.  Some Kurds also descend from Scythians and do they look Mongoloid? genetics also show no Mongoloid influence on Kurds as well.

Scythians were Iranic, they had the same origin as the Medes,Parthians,Persians and other Iranic tribes.  Only difference is Scythians moved further north and west and likely mixed with others, but the original Scythians were of Iranic stock and might I add not slavic like some slavs claim.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 24-Jan-2012 at 06:57
The answer is that all of the above are related to the Scythians in one form or other.

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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: PanzerOberst
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2012 at 12:12
Many thanks all. My thoughts were the same as Alani Dragon as well, I had chanced on some info that the Scythians had spread both to the east & west as well, ultimately ending up in europe (Saxons & Anglo Saxons). But how accurate this info is I am uncertain.

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"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows"
- Heinz W. Guderian


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2012 at 12:25
Those spreading into Europe, PanzerOberst, would probably have been related peoples to the Scythians, the Sarmatians, and the Alans(considered to be connected to the Sarmatians).

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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: PanzerOberst
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2012 at 02:34
Again, many thanks guys for the brief.

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"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows"
- Heinz W. Guderian


Posted By: benzin
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2012 at 20:13
Simon Kezai, Gesta Hunorum et Hungarorum (1280) :

"Scythia lies in Europe and it expands to the east, on the north it ends in a huge sea, otherwise its boundaries are the Rif mountains (probably the Urals) and its far from the hot territories.

Its connected with Asia to the east. Two large rivers flows trough Scythia, one's name is Etöl, the other's is Togora.
Those nations who live in Scythia are lazy, arrogant, their only wish to rob, they care about things doesnt worth to, and their skin is generally brown instead of white.

To the east from Scythia we find the country of Joria, then Tarsia (Tartaria) and Mangalia (Mongolia) where Europe ends.

Under the county of the summer sun it lies the korozmian (kwarezm) nation and Etiopia wich is called little India as well. Then on the south until the river Don, it lies an endless unpassable plain.

River Don wich is called Etöl by the Magyars, flows from Scythia but it passes trough the Rif mountains. On the west the neighbours of Scythia are the Pechenegs and the White Huns. On the north there are endless forests until the country of Suzdal.
There is fog for 9 months in that country, and they see the sun only in june, july and august, and they see the sun only between 6 to 9 oclock.
In the mountains of Suzdal country, there are crystals to be found, and the mountains are guarded by Griffs and hunting falcons lives there wich are called Keretset in Magyar language.

The land of Scythia is one land but it can be divided to 3 countries. Baskar (Baskir) Dent (?) and Magyar countries. In Scythia there are 108 provinces, with 108 tribes as it is divided to 108 pieces by Magor and Hunor when they invaded Scythia at the ancient times. So the clean Hungary is settled by 108 tribes, and if there is anyone else who joined the Hungarians is a foreigner or descend from slaves, because in the swamps of Meotis Hunor and Magor had 108 tribes, not more and not less. at the end of this book all 108 Scythian families will be listed one by one."


Posted By: benzin
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2012 at 20:56
From an other ancient hungarian source Anonymous' Gesta about scythia.

Sorry for my english, its my translation:

...Scythians are an old tribe, and scythia is a mighty power of the east. First king of Scythia were Magog, where the name Magyar comes from, he was son of Jafet.
Descendant of Magog, the great and mighty king Attila, who at the year 451 left Scythia and invaded pannonia, made the romans to flee in horror, and settled in the country.
Near the river danube, north to the upper hot water springs (pilis mountains) he founded a new capital, he reconstruted the buildings and walls he founded there.

That city is called Budavar (Buda castle), and the germans called it Etzelburg....

But back to scythians. Those tribes were peaceful at the beginning of history, they wandered on the endless steppes, each scythian had only one wife, and they considered themselves rich because they all had enough food and they were free. Much later on Scythians became bored with endless wars, according to sources,they drank human blood, they did terrible things.
They became firm people, no emperor or king could invade them. They made Darius great king of persia to run. 80,000 persians killed in the battle, and the coward Darius himself ran back to persia. They killed Cyrus who was also a persian king together with his 330,000 men. Even Alexander the great (son of king Philip and queen Olympiadis) had to run from the battle against them disgracefully.
Scythians didnt know tiredness, they were huge and brave in battle. They didnt own anything they would miss, thats why they fought so fiercely.
And when they won a battle, they didnt try everything to get the properties of the defeated ones, not like some of their descandants nowadays, they only wished for fame..

Not counting Dareios, Cyrus and Alexander no other one dared to step its feet to the land of Scythia. They were quick on horses, they weared a helmet on their head, and they better used the bow than any other nation on this planet...

Because it (Scythia) lies far from the hot territories (probably deserts) it became overpopulated. Neither food nor place was not enough for its many inhabitants, so the 7 royal families whom we call hetumoger (7 magyar) sit together for a counsel. They decided to find a new home for themselves wich is good to live at.
...


Posted By: PanzerOberst
Date Posted: 05-May-2012 at 11:51
Many thanks Benzin for your very informative post, I must profess that my knowledge of central European history is sadly lacking. From what I had understood much earlier, the Cimmerians were also closely related to the scythians, is this correct?


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"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows"
- Heinz W. Guderian


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 06-May-2012 at 02:22
Originally posted by PanzerOberst

Hello everyone, am a bit in the dark on this matter. I hope somebody can enlighten me on this matter, about who they are & their origins. 
 
You want to know about the origins of Scythians or Mongols, Tatars, ...? Scythians are an extinct ancient people, like Babylonians, Sumerians and etc, but Mongols and Tatars are almost modern peoples, like Americans, Brazilians, ...
 
It can not be asked that ancient Greeks were Turk because Turks already live in a region where ancient Greeks lived, in fact they were originally two different peoples in all aspects, the same thing can be said about Scythians and Tatars.


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Posted By: PanzerOberst
Date Posted: 06-May-2012 at 02:28
But could they be modern descendants (albeit diluted in blood)of the Scythian people?


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"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows"
- Heinz W. Guderian


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 06-May-2012 at 04:13
Originally posted by PanzerOberst

But could they be modern descendants (albeit diluted in blood)of the Scythian people?
 
There isn't any direct descendant of ancient Scythians, in the early middle ages some other extinct peoples such as Sarmatians and Alans were probably descendants of Scythians and in the modern times Ossetians in Georgia and Russia, Jassic people in Hungary, ... can be related to them.


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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2012 at 00:23
The Scythians' language remains unknown and Iranian is merely a guess, mostly influenced by the type of clothing they wore which often resembles that of the Medes and Persians. As for their original home, it was probably somewhere around the Black Sea region. The Hermitage museum in Russia gives a good idea of their appearance and it is that of typical northern and central Europeans. People mistake the modern Slavs as the original phenotype of the Scythians, but that is wrong because the modern Slavs, especially of Russia, now have considerable mongoloid admixture, which wasn't the case 2500 years ago.


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2012 at 20:45
Originally posted by kegger

The Scythians' language remains unknown and Iranian is merely a guess, mostly influenced by the type of clothing they wore which often resembles that of the Medes and Persians. As for their original home, it was probably somewhere around the Black Sea region. The Hermitage museum in Russia gives a good idea of their appearance and it is that of typical northern and central Europeans. People mistake the modern Slavs as the original phenotype of the Scythians, but that is wrong because the modern Slavs, especially of Russia, now have considerable mongoloid admixture, which wasn't the case 2500 years ago.

Scythian descent might explain the straight black hair and darker skin of many Poles (including my grandad who was often mistaken for a Turk or Spaniard), although it's more likely their ancestors were Jews or Tatars


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Aug-2012 at 00:53
Yeah, you might have a point were it not for all of these bothersome images from the Hermitage museum, unless of course you mean the Scythians that mixed later on in their travels. I was talking about their ultimate origins, not their later absorption of, or final absorption by, other ethnicities. Naturally some will claim that I am cherry-picking what they believe were once Mongoloidic, Finno-Ugric, or early Turkish-like Scythians that wandered into Russia and became progressively "whiter", if you will, much as the people of Finland mostly resemble their Swedish and Norwegian neighbors nowadays.


Sorry for the empty form above. Seems my pasting function failed for some reason.


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Aug-2012 at 19:22
That's right. Before mixing with the fair-skinned inhabitants of northern Iran, the Scythians were probably Mongoloid like the Huns

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 03-Aug-2012 at 19:36
Originally posted by Nick1986

Originally posted by kegger

The Scythians' language remains unknown and Iranian is merely a guess, mostly influenced by the type of clothing they wore which often resembles that of the Medes and Persians. As for their original home, it was probably somewhere around the Black Sea region. The Hermitage museum in Russia gives a good idea of their appearance and it is that of typical northern and central Europeans. People mistake the modern Slavs as the original phenotype of the Scythians, but that is wrong because the modern Slavs, especially of Russia, now have considerable mongoloid admixture, which wasn't the case 2500 years ago.

Scythian descent might explain the straight black hair and darker skin of many Poles (including my grandad who was often mistaken for a Turk or Spaniard), although it's more likely their ancestors were Jews or Tatars
The Cimmerians, the dominant force on the steppe prior to the Scythians, were thought to be black haired.




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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2012 at 19:04
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by Nick1986

Originally posted by kegger

The Scythians' language remains unknown and Iranian is merely a guess, mostly influenced by the type of clothing they wore which often resembles that of the Medes and Persians. As for their original home, it was probably somewhere around the Black Sea region. The Hermitage museum in Russia gives a good idea of their appearance and it is that of typical northern and central Europeans. People mistake the modern Slavs as the original phenotype of the Scythians, but that is wrong because the modern Slavs, especially of Russia, now have considerable mongoloid admixture, which wasn't the case 2500 years ago.

Scythian descent might explain the straight black hair and darker skin of many Poles (including my grandad who was often mistaken for a Turk or Spaniard), although it's more likely their ancestors were Jews or Tatars
The Cimmerians, the dominant force on the steppe prior to the Scythians, were thought to be black haired.



Is there any credible link between the Cimmerians and the ancient Celts, or is this purely Ron Howard fantasy?


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2012 at 23:55
Originally posted by Nick1986

 
Is there any credible link between the Cimmerians and the ancient Celts, or is this purely Ron Howard fantasy?
The link maybe that the ancient Celts could be a product of both the Cimmerians and the Scythians. At one time they were under the Scythians, but at sometime moved westward. My feelings are that this move might have occurred before they become this warrior like people we picture them as. The thing you should remember is that these mighty nomadic forces were made up of the hierarchy who were the warriors on horseback, and then there was the rest, who you could say were agricultural in make up. 

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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Cyberfedain
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2012 at 06:13

I observed that the only people in the world who used ancient scythe way of hunting so called “aran” are irelands and turks , “aran” means to chase animals into enclosed places, such called “arans’ arceologists find regularly. This means scythes and celts had many common things.

Sarmatians superseded scythians, before this scythians superseded cimmerians and cimmerians superseded pelasks, pelasks superseded etruscans and lastly sedentary italic tribes superseded etruscans, etruscans disappeared same as sarmats, scythes, pelasks,cimmerians. Definitely we may conclude that all those nomads had kindred ties except sedentary italians.

hunn tribes allied with sarmatians and invaded to Rome empire, most of sarmatians lived in Poland,for example russian writer Dostoevskiy originated from sarmatian turks, his family coat of arms had emblem of Royal Bosphorus-Cimmerian trident also called as Kyrkor, russians may deny this but facts show that coat of arms belong to royal sarmatian turkic tribe “Kyrkor”.



Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2012 at 07:13
Cyberfedain, the little I have read of the Pelasks have them as the ancestors of the Etruscans, and so come before them, not the other way around. Are you able to expand any on your information about the Pelasks in order to enlighten?

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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Cyberfedain
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2012 at 04:07
Briefly : 3000 years B.C. tribes called “Pelask” migrated from Balkans to Italia and Greece and founded state over there which was crushed under Greeks military campaign. Such called “Pelask” tribe are recognized by all scientist-historians as ancestors of Etruscans, and they identify them as pure nomad tribes, the name of which means “Bulga”+”Sak” = Pelask. “Pelask” was result of tribal consolidation of both nomad tribes, the one of which worshipped cattish totems as Tiger; Lion and the other worshipped lupine totem as Wolves, as we know scythes  divide clearly into two mentioned worldviews, cattish and lupine, “Bulga” worshipped cattish totems and “sak” worshipped lupine totems, also we know the Rome’s founders had wolf totem, also etruscan shamanistic rituals and witchcraft are peculiar only  to nomad tradition. For example the planet “Saturn” was called by shamans that means “Issi Turan” “Spirit of God”, in etruscans pantheon the main god of love was “Turan” same with those nomads worshipping same god Donner, Turan, Tur, Teyri, Tanri, another name of etruscans is “Tursaka” and here again cannot be neglected existence of the wolfish scythe tribe “sak”, definitely that nomad tribe “sak” played main role in gene pools of both  “pelask” and “etrusk”.

P.S. we know only turks and chechens have genealogy that originates from wolf ancestor meanwhile others ascend lineally to semitic Adam and Havva. )))))))


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2012 at 09:01
Can you post some academic sources about the said "Pelasks"? All I find on them are some mythological-smelling matter from the nebulous "Turkic World", that seems to try to sell the idea that the Etruscans were Turks.

"...From the above common for Etruscan and Türkic languages examples, Adilya Ayda considers the Etruscan language to be proto-Türkic. There she is mistaken. The Etruscan language under the influence of the Romance languages deviated very strongly from the common Türkic genre, even further than the Chuvash and Sakha languages deviated from the Türkic norms.
In a word, the ancient Türkic-speaking areals were located in many regions of the Eurasia, and during a period of five to six thousand years happened some reduction because of the "loss" of diminished peripheral areals.
Until now we dealt with the recognized Türkic ethnoses and ethnonyms. Now we shall move to the problems of the ethnic roots for those Türkic peoples who in the traditional historical science are deemed as Iranian-lingual...."  http://www.facebook.com/notes/turkic-world/36-some-arguments-of-adilya-ayda-that-prove-the-turkic-speaking-of-the-etruscans/10150137153445145 - http://www.facebook.com/notes/turkic-world/36-some-arguments-of-adilya-ayda-that-prove-the-turkic-speaking-of-the-etruscans/10150137153445145

Which I don't buy. The Etruscan language is accepted to belong to the  Tyrsenian language family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrsenian_languages - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrsenian_languages   , and everytime I see the highly suspisious "the scientists came to the consclusion" without mentioning even one name of a scientist that came to this conclusion, I smell a pseudo-history fabrication.


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Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2012 at 09:12
Cyberfedian, when you say Pelask I would say what you are meaning is what we know as Pelasgian. I have found something on the subject here:

The Origins of the Etruscans

The Etruscans occupied the region to the north of Rome, between the Arno and Tiber Rivers to the west of the Apennine Mountains. The Romans were first a subject people of the Etruscans and later their conquerors. The Etruscan culture was well-developed and advanced but distinctively different from the cultures of the other peoples in the region. This distinctive difference immediately led to the question of where did the Etruscans originate. This question was subject to active speculation among the Greeks.

Some Greeks held that the Etruscans were a branch of the  http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/etruscans.htm#PELASGIANS - Pelasgians , aboriginal inhabitants of the Aegean region, others such as Virgil thought they came from Lydia, a kingdom of western Anatolia. The Greek master historian Herodotus also ascribes the origin of the Etruscans to Lydia. Herodotus says the ancestors of the Etruscans were forced to emigrate from Lydia because of 18 years of hard times. The Lydians built ships and half of the population left under the leadership of Tyrrhenus, the son of the king of Lydia.

The Pelasgians may have been the  http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/etruscans.htm#SEAPEOPLE - Sea People  who around 1200 B.C. invaded the Egyptian Empire. The Greek historian, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, in his Early History of Rome dismissed these theory and argued that the Etruscan were the aboriginal inhabitants of their area.

The question became more intriguing when, in the nineteenth century, it was discovered that most of the languages of Europe belonged to one big language family called Indo-European but Etruscan was not one of them.

Although the early history of the Etruscans is uncertain the later history is well known. By about 700 B.C. the major Etruscan cities had been founded. The Etruscan culture was flourishing during the the sixth century B.C.; i.e., the century of the 500's B.C. As the Etruscan culture burgeoned it ran into constraint on its expansion due to strong cultures and geographic confinements bordering its home region. This led to an expansion into the Po River Valley to the northeast. Also at this time there was an aggressive expansion of Greek culture on the Italian Peninsula, the islands of Corsica and Sicily and what is now the south coast of France. Commercial rivalry of the Etruscans and Greeks led to military confrontation which, on balance, the Etruscans lost. By about 500 B.C. the Etruscans were losing not only to the Greeks but also to former tributary peoples such as the Romans. By 400 B.C. the Etruscans were being politically subordinated to the Romans. The Romans adopted numerous elements of Etruscan culture, including the Etruscan alphabet which the Etruscans had adopted from the Greeks. The Latin letters of European civilization, the letters which you see before you, had their origin in the Etruscan alphabet. Of course this alphabet and that of the Greeks had their origin in the alphabet of the Phoenicians.

The Origin of the Etruscans

The question of the origin of a people necessarily has a complex answer. The matter of the origin of the culture of a people has to be separated from genetic origins of the people who practice that culture. The culture of a people may, and generally does, have multiple roots. Consider the origins of the people of Mexico. The genetic origins are mixed between aboriginal people of the region and people from Europe predominantly Spain. The culture likewise has mixed origins. The cultural mix is predominantly European as in the case of the language spoken but the genetic mix is predominantly aboriginal. The conquest of Mexico by the conquistadors was probably typical of what occurred throughout history.

What probably occurred in Tuscany was a numerically small element coming from who knows where settled and conquered the iron age population. The invaders brought a culture, including perhaps the language, which the conquered population adopted in part. The genetic origin of the people who became the Etruscans could well have been predominantly the aboriginal population. The aboriginal population may have settled in the area millenia prior to the invasion. The aboriginal people may have been the people of the  http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/etruscans.htm#VILLANOVA - Villanovan Culture .

The technology of DNA analysis has been applied to the question of origins. A study published in the April 2007 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics reports finding eleven lineages of mitochondrial DNA in Tuscany that have not been found elsewhere in Europe but do occur in the Near East.

A brilliant line of investigation was followed by Marco Pellecchia and Paolo Ajmone-Marsan of the Catholic University in Piacenza. They examined the mitochondrial DNA of cattle in Tuscan and found some breeds were genetically related to breeds of cattle in the Near East. The other breeds were European in origin. What these two studies indicate is that there were some Near Eastern sources for the Etruscans. The other possibility is that the Pelasgians, if they were the same as the Sea People, may have settled in the Near East as well as in Tuscany. The Sea People were the origin of at least the name Palestinians. But, in any case, the migrants from the sea probably were not the dominant genetic basis for the Etruscan population.

It is perhaps appropriate to note here that genetic information can sometimes be misinterpreted. For example, a study of the genetic origin of the Greeks claimed that they had a sub-Saharan origin. The was probably done just for sensationalism. What was really involved is that there were genetic sources for the population of Crete among the semitic elements of the Near East. The source of the Ethiopian culture was a pre-Islamic migration of semitic Arabs from south Arabia into the Horn of Africa Region. Thus by identifying genetic elements from semitic migrations into the Greece and Ethiopia the investigators came up with a sensational but fallacious claim for a sub-Saharan origin for the ancient Greeks.

But genetic origins may be less important than cultural origins. The origin of the culture of the Etruscans would be the more interesting question. But even if migrants brought the dominant element of the Etruscan culture the aboriginal people may have retained some elements of the old culture. This could have included the language or some substantial share of the language. For example, the origin of the Bulgarian state is from the conquest of a Slavic people by the Bulgar Turks who had previously resided about a thousand miles to the east. The language of the Bulgarians is the Slavic language of the conquered people and the about the only residue of the conquerors in Bulgaria is the name of the people and the country.

When people raise the question of the origins of the Etruscans they are primarily concerned with the distinctive features of Etruscan culture. Although it is not clear where these cultural features came from it is clear that there is a strong possibility that they came from the Near East.

The literature on the question of Etruscan origins groups the various positions into

1. Northern Origins 
2. Oriental (eastern) Origins 
3. No Origins Outside of Etruria

The Northern Origins advocates point to similarities of features of region to the cultures of the peoples of the Alps. This includes such things as the  http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/etruscans.htm#TERRAMARE - terramare  villages. Quite likely the aboriginal peoples of North Italy did have their origins to the north. The cultural features of the Etruscans is a different matter and the affinities with the cultures of the Middle East are quite striking.

The question of the linguistic relationships of the Etruscan language is not necessarily the same as the affinities of the rest of the culture. Although the 10,000 samples of Etruscan writings have not been deciphered enough is known to conclude that Etruscan was not a member of the Indo-European language family. There are many interesting possible relationships but none have been established. It may well be, as in the case of Basque, that there are no other surviving members of its family.

So the question of the origins of the cultural features of the Etruscans has to be answered without the help of linguistic analysis. Much attention has been focused on the funerary practices of the people of North Italy. The Etruscans cremated their dead and put the ashes in elaborate funeral urns. The funerary practices of the Etruscans could well be that of the aboriginal population with the art and technology of the invading people enhancing the old practice with fancy urns. So the question of the origins of Etruscan art will probably not be settled by establishing the origins of other aspects of Etruscan culture. If it can be settled at all it will have to settled on the basis of the affinities of the art with that of the other major cultures of the region.

The Etruscans' Naval Prowess

Greek sources speak of the domination of the eastern and western seas by Etruscan pirates. The Etruscans established colonies on Corsica, Sardinia, the Balearic Isles and perhaps even Spain. The Adriatic Sea, the sea to the east of the Italian Peninsula, was named after the Etruscan port of Adria. The sea west of the peninsula was called the Tyrrhenian Sea after Tyrrhenus a supposed founder of the Etruscans from Lydia in western Anatolia.

In the Etruscan ruins there are craft objects from Greece, North Africa, southern France and Iberia. These could have been brought by Greek or Phoenician traders to Etruria but given the naval prowess of the Etruscan there is no reason to doubt that Etruscan traders were involved in bringing those craft objects to Etruria. In any case the exports of Etruria was probably copper and iron from the local mines.

In the mythology and literature of the Greeks there are also references to Pelasgian piracy, which since some Greeks believed the Etruscans were Pelasgians, could have been references to Etruscans.

References: 
Massimo Pallottino, The Etruscans, Penguin Books, 1956.

Some background information:

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/etruscans.htm - http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/etruscans.htm

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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.



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