Repeating rifles and revolvers pre-1800
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Early Modern & the Imperial Age
Forum Discription: World History from 1500 to the end of WW1
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30125
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 03:37
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Topic: Repeating rifles and revolvers pre-1800
Posted By: Nick1986
Subject: Repeating rifles and revolvers pre-1800
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2011 at 20:51
200 years before Oliver Winchester patented his famous rifle, English and German gunsmiths developed the first repeaters. These originally used the wheel-lock mechanism but the oldest surviving examples are flintlocks. Above is a Danish rifle made around 1640 by Peter Kalthoff. The cartridges were stored in the stock and chambered by moving the lever/trigger guard. Henry VIII supposedly owned a German gun of this type and Samuel Pepys test-fired a Cookson rifle belonging to the Earl of Sandwich ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Replies:
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2011 at 20:13
According to Howard Ricketts the Cookson gun, derived from a 1660 design by Lorenzoni, could be produced as either a carbine or a pistol. It was a breach loader whose bullets were stored in the butt. It had a reservoir of powder to provide the charge and could fire nine shots before reloading. ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2011 at 19:29
Here's a strange Japanese revolver resembling the Porter Turret Rifle of the 1850s. Rounds were stored in a drum behind the barrel though it's unknown whether the gun was single-action or if the magazine had to be manually turned ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2011 at 20:14
Compare this 1834 Cochran revolver to the 17th century Japanese pistol above. The drum magazine on this gun is spun by cocking the under-hammer but both weapons draw upon the same basic principle: high ammunition capacity and fast rate of fire ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2011 at 04:14
 From istanbul military museum  ottoman miguelet  an other golden decorated gun from 18. century ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2011 at 11:44
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The top revolver looks like a Civil War era Smith and Wesson. The muskets are beautifully engraved. One looks European and the other looks more Eastern. Their owners must have been high-status men ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2011 at 20:03
The earliest revolver was a three-barreled matchlock turnover carbine made in Italy around 1530. Examples are preserved in Venice and the Ashmolean museum at Oxford ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2011 at 19:15
I'm surprised Centrix hasn't seen this thread yet. The 18th and early 19th century pepperboxes i'll discuss tomorrow were very influential in the design of a certain flintlock revolver a young Samuel Colt encountered as a sailor in India ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2011 at 19:19
The turnover action of the 18th century was ideal for fowling pieces but less useful for pistols, although examples like this piece from Augsburg were produced for wealthy clients. Each barrel needed a separate pan, making these guns bulky and inaccurate until someone had the idea of inventing a single pan with a reservoir of powder. However, these were prone to exploding, hence the lack of interest in pepperbox revolvers until the invention of the caplock mechanism by Joshua Shaw. ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 19:44
Now we will move on to true revolvers. Aware multiple barrels resulted in a heavy, inaccurate gun and realising a shortened cylinder could be loaded without a ramrod, German and English gunsmiths began producing flintlock revolvers from the 1590s onwards. This wheel-lock has inlaid ivory and an engraved "puffer" stock designed to ensure a good grip. These fell from favor by the time of the Civil War but Cossack pistols retained the distinctive ball-butt until the 19th century ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 19:05
Louis XIII owned a revolving fowling piece. Like most Frenchmen he was a passionate hunter and had a whole room full of birding guns ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2011 at 20:24
The revolver was re-invented in 1811 when Elisha Collier patented an innovative new design. To prevent gas leaks the cylinder was designed to fit tightly over the barrel. Unlike earlier turnover pistols the Collier revolver only had one pan. A reservoir of powder provided the charge, making priming unneccessary, although, like its contemporary the pepperbox, a chainfire could cause the gun to explode. Many were issued to British forces in India less than a decade after the Napoleonic Wars ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 21:08
The Duck's Foot pistol was an effective weapon for prison guards or a sea captain facing a mutinous crew. This four-shot breechloader had "turn-off" barrels that could be unscrewed for fast reloading. When loaded with buckshot it could be even more devastating ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 08:45
This gruesome-looking version of the Duck's Foot had eight barrels, a bayonet and spiked butt. Its owner must have had a lot of enemies ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2011 at 09:42
And who can forget the 7-shot Nock volley gun from Sharpe? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2011 at 20:50
The Nock Gun was adopted by the Royal Navy and issued to boarding parties and sharpshooters in the fighting-top, despite the fire risk. It could take a skilled Marine over 30 seconds to reload, hence the continued use of the much cheaper blunderbuss which could do the same thing with nails or gravel ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 10:32
Let's have a look at one of the oldest repeaters: the medieval ribaldequin or organ battery which consisted of 20 musket barrels side-by-side. These could be fired simultaneously or individually, making it the first machine gun ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 21:31
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Smaller organ guns were used by poachers from the 17th until the 19th century. These primitive devices were designed to take down as many birds as possible without reloading as poaching was punishable by transportation ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2011 at 08:58
it is like a cannon ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2011 at 19:29
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Absolutely. It would have been lethal when fired at an advancing formation of soldiers ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2011 at 19:54
James Puckle's "defence" was the first machine-gun, patented in the early 1700s. It fired round bullets at Christians and square ones at Turks  ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 14-Oct-2011 at 20:43
German flintlock revolver from the late 16th century. It retained the old-style "puffer" handle intended to provide a firm grip for a mounted soldier ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 08:35
I'm surprised by the lack of interest in this topic.  Maybe Ollios can tell us more about this nine-barreled Turkish cannon------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 09:54
And ironically, despite the intention of the designer, the round bullets against Christians were probably more lethal due to better ballistics.
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2011 at 17:48
what is the aim? can square ones damage more?
I have tried but no result, but I found similar thing with 11 barreled  you can read its plate ---------------- more ottoman weapons' photoes http://osmanli-devleti1299.tr.gg/osmanli-tabancalar.htm - http://osmanli-devleti1299.tr.gg/osmanli-tabancalar.htm (Turkish) ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2011 at 19:35
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That's the sort of thing i'm looking for Ollios. Judging by its small caliber, my guess is this was antipersonnel weapon ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2011 at 19:15
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The reason the bullets of the Puckle Gun were square was because its inventor believed they hurt more and were harder to remove. For centuries warring Christian nations observed an unwritten code of honor prohibiting the use of anything other than smooth round bullets. During the Civil War several prisoners were executed for roughening their musket balls as these would expand on contact, like modern hollow-point ammunition ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 19:26
 A poacher's organ battery ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 26-Jul-2012 at 19:37
 This strange contraption is a Russian invention. It is a repeating mortar that worked in a similar way to a revolver ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2012 at 19:46
 Flintlock pepperbox from the late 18th century ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2012 at 19:08
 One early repeater had one barrel but four locks, each one loaded with a powder charge. The one furthest from the trigger was fired first ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2012 at 19:38
 Isaiah Jennings' 12 shot repeating rifle, 1821 http://www.bornrich.com/jennings-12-shot-repeating-flintlock-rifle-serial-number-1-sale.html - http://www.bornrich.com/jennings-12-shot-repeating-flintlock-rifle-serial-number-1-sale.html ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2012 at 20:35
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Girandoni invented a repeating air rifle for the Lewis and Clark expedition
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 16-Sep-2012 at 19:20
 Superimposed charge wheel-lock rifle capable of firing two shots from a single barrel ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 24-Sep-2012 at 19:17
 Harmonica gun, an early attempt to get round Sam Colt's patent ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2012 at 09:56
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According to this book, multi-barreled gun-carts were used by Henry VII in a similar way to the modern machine-gun http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IfA8AAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA101&ots=e7MagXtWeS&dq=dardanelles%20gun&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IfA8AAAAIAAJ&lpg=PA101&ots=e7MagXtWeS&dq=dardanelles%20gun&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2012 at 12:10
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7 shot breachloading revolver, 1820 http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/106485%20 - http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/106485 ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Nov-2012 at 08:29
 Strange, the link above no longer works. http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/artist/Birmingham - Lock: Richard Constable Flintlock Revolver, c. 1820
Steel, wood http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/department/14 - Medieval to Modern European Painting and Sculpture ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 07:57
 A pistol designed to fire square bullets ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2012 at 13:44
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If you have 19000 dollars to spare, you can buy your own volley gun here: http://www.icollector.com/Harrington-Breechloading-Percussion-Volley-Gun_i13827514 - http://www.icollector.com/Harrington-Breechloading-Percussion-Volley-Gun_i13827514 ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2013 at 18:58
 Ducksfoot pistol with nine barrels. Judging by the miquelet lock, this is an early piece from Italy, possibly 17th or 18th century ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Feb-2013 at 11:30
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Some decidedly odd looking volley guns here http://www.4to40.com/science/index.asp?p=Machine_Gun - http://www.4to40.com/science/index.asp?p=Machine_Gun ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |