fourth human species
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Category: General History
Forum Name: Natural History
Forum Discription: History viewed through ecology, geology, paleoclimatology, paleontology & zoology to assist in understanding earth's history
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29014
Printed Date: 27-Apr-2024 at 16:01
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Topic: fourth human species
Posted By: Athena
Subject: fourth human species
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 11:39
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Scientist believe they hare found a fourth human species. The first one is ourselves, not because we came first, but we knew about ourselves first. The second discovery was Neanderthal man. He is human, but with distinctly different DNA. The third discovery is call the Hobbit and was found on an island. The fourth one was found in Siberia. Note it is DNA that separates these species of humans, and also identifies them as humans. It now seems there could have been as many species of humans as there are species of monkeys, however it is believed they all come from the same ancestor in Africa. http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100324/full/464472a.html - http://www.nature.co...ll/464472a.html |
Replies:
Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 11:53
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/apr/08/fossil-skeletons-un -
This is another recent find. Evidently a mother and son fell into this cave and then got covered with mud, and were turned into stone. It is an adult femal and pre teen boy. However, these two are not human, but possibly the first species to walk on two legs.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/apr/08/fossil-skeletons-un
When we speak of evolution, we need to keep in mind, none of the species today are the original copy. All have evolved, becoming more of what they are, and more distinctly different from their ancient ancestor.
When it could no longer be denied that the sun circles the earth, religion adjusted. Will it also adjust to there being several species of humans, and evolutionary connections between ourselves and apes?
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 14:21
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Athena, I know that you meant to write above "that the earth circles the sun"!
But, as of now, I certainly do not recognize that there ever existed "several species of humans!" In that case, just what kept these "several species" from existing until the present day? Being "human" seems to have exhibited the feeling that these "species" were superior to the lower IQ monkeys or apes, that for some reason have matriculated until the present day! Did the early Africans, and Asians (etc.) hunt down and kill all of them (fellow humans), and spare the apes and monkeys? Perhaps it was because the "humans" were mostly "naked?" Just some food for thought! Holiday blessings to you and yours! The hell with it, Merry Christmas! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 22:47
I dont know about several, but the gap between the Neandertals and us keeps getting smaller. Some scientists now consider Neandertals to be a sub species of humans.
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 25-Dec-2010 at 09:37
Now that science has stopped looking at Human evolution in linear terms, the possibility that there were many sub specie of human existing at the same time becomes more apparent. Most were evolutionary dead ends. It's also possible that they did not just dissappear, but were assimilated genetically by one or more of the successful species, that includes us. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 02:16
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New species of Human in Siberia http://www.pasthorizons.com/index.php/archives/12/2010/siberian-human-sheds-new-light-on-our-origins - http://www.pasthorizons.com/index.php/archives/12/2010/siberian-human-sheds-new-light-on-our-origins http://www.npr.org/2010/12/23/132243268/ancient-bones-dna-suggests-new-human-ancestors - http://www.npr.org/2010/12/23/132243268/ancient-bones-dna-suggests-new-human-ancestors http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/12/finger-points-to-new-type-of-hum.html?ref=ra - http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/12/finger-points-to-new-type-of-hum.html?ref=ra
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Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 11:37
I wonder if this is going to change the Out of Africa theory. Any arguments that I have seen on forums towards regional evolution have always been rejected as not being supported by science or having implied rascist goals.
Who knows, maybe the human story is a mix of regional evolution and Out of Africa: Homo Sapian sub species evolve regionaly in Africa, Asia and possibly elsewhere. The ones outside of Africa then get over whelmed / assimilated by the Out of Africa migration.
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 12:19
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All implicate that normal evolution can happens everywhere on Earth...BUT...Last glacial period was around 13000-20000 years before...survival technology, needs civilization at least like ours,even more advanced...In that time , huge human concentration areas exist around equator+- 45 degrees...optimal +- 30 degrees...In this area we have coastal areas of Mediterranean see,parts of Africa,Asia and from other side, coastal parts in America... We miss ,Atlantis, maybe in this story...But DNA says that average humanoid comes from Africa...Deviation exists in every theory and have to be investigated of course. |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 04:28
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This particular case also (I mean the new human species found in Siberia) is not speaking against an african origin of humans. The carbon dating has dated the remains back to 30000BC.The estimated period of peopling of asia and Europe was from 70000BC to 40000BC.And thye migration from africa is believed to have taken place much before that.
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Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 05:31
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Most of the early human fossils are found in African continent An international achaeology group discovered human skull fossils about 160,000 years old in Ethiopia, which surprised the achaeological field. http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2003/8/6/38889.html
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Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 09:33
I see your point about the dates. The Siberian remains, however, could still be a big blow to "Only out of Africa". The ancestors of the girl (sub species) in question came from somewhere.
Did they....
-Come out of Africa as "standard" Homo Sapiens and then evolve into a different sub species? or,
-evolve into a sub species of Homo Sapiens locally and independent from Africa and were then later over whelmed / assimilated by the African migration?
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 09:43
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There are indications that a second wave came out of Africa. 60, 000 ybp. Mt. Toba erupted approx. 75,000 ybp. Reducing the gene pool to approx. 1,000 individuals. The second wave would have been a repopulation of sorts. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 09:52
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So perhaps there are three possilbe explanations for the girl in Siberia: 1.)She was part of a group of survivors from the first African wave that later went extinct.
2.) Her ancestors evolved into a sub species of Homo Sapiens locally, indepnedent from Africa
3.) Her ancestors came from Africa as "standard" Homo Sapiens and then took a diffent evolutionary path locally
But.... I don't think she has DNA similarities with modern humans. That would seem to eliminate option "3" since one would think that option 3 would still some yield DNA similarities with people today.
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Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 10:11
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Earliest homosapien fossils (recovered from Africa) are known to date back to 195000 years before present. The oldest proto-neanderthal traits were found in Europe & parts of Asia from 600000-350000 years before present and complete neanderthal characteristics appeared before 130000years ago. Neanderthal characteristics disappeared in asia by 50000years ago. Genetical evidence suggests that the interbreeding between homosapiens and neanderthals took place roughly 80000-50000years ago.This interbreeding might have led to the loss of neanderthal traits. This siberian fossil indicates the presence of neanderthal traits in europe 30000years ago.She could have been part of an isolated group which was least affected by the interbreeding with homosapiens and was succesful in protecting some of her neanderthal traits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 16:20
Some of your time lines are a little strange. Actually there are 2 sites in Europe that have yielded Neander remains with most classic characteristics in place. The most recent dating has them at roughly 25,000 ybp. Genetic evidence, Neander DNA that old[80,000] hasn't been found yet. The sample that the genome was constructed from was 37,000 . I would hope that some day they will be able to extract DNA from before Toba. I think the comparisons will be...........interesting.
Plenty more here- http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/ - http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 16:33
BTW, New Year's Eve is coming up. Depending on where you are, you might be able to spot a 5th or 6th.  ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2010 at 17:20
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New discoveries have proposed that the indications of the earliest man might well have occured in what is now Israel! Thus it splits the difference between Asia and Africa!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12084496 ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2010 at 10:24
I need to get my cam corder working, then submit an article to Scientific American. I just ownt mention that on a few occasions many years ago, I would have been mistaken for one of the "others".
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