The best siege unit in middle ages
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Military History
Forum Discription: Discussions related to military history: generals, battles, campaigns, etc.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=286
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 20:02
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Topic: The best siege unit in middle ages
Posted By: demon
Subject: The best siege unit in middle ages
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 08:59
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What do you think was the best siege unit in the middle ages? It can be either for anti siege, or anti unit. You tell
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Replies:
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 09:39
| a ballistae or a trebuchet |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 14:59
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Roman (Byzantine) Biffa perhaps? The Chinese also had some obscure and nice siege weapons ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 15:00
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There are obviously more effective seige units but I think the H'wacha is te coolest. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 15:18
Yay for Shingichun Hwacha! Fire about 200 arrows or 100 bullets
at the same time...hell of long time to reload, but who cares...I like
the arrows better than the bullets...see if you load fire arrows,
arrows with packets of gunpowder attached to them, you fire them all
and then an arrow gets stuck in a guy...he's like WTF and pulls the
arrow out...and then the fuse runs out and his hand gets blown
off...isn't it great?
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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 16:57
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All of the different catapults has their uses and disadvantages. |
Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 18:23
Trebuchets were effective I think ------------- Grrr.. |
Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 20:25
| there are alot of forms of trebuchet, they are the dominant siege weapons of the day, which one are you talking about? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 20:34
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When I think castle killer I think the English(correct me if I am wrong) trebuchet. |
Posted By: Roughneck
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 20:42
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The trebuchet. I have to figure that these games keep making the trebuchet the highest level siege weapon for a reason. ------------- |
Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 05:26
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------------- Grrr.. |
something that has the mass of thisPosted By: Hyarmendacil
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 11:52
| Being the cannon maniac that I am, I would have said bombards if I had not known how horribly unreliable they were. In this case, my vote goes to the man-powered light traction trebuchets--they were excellent anti-personnel weapons when loaded with large bunches of small stones in addition to being effective against timber fortifications and even some light stone walls. They were also very widespread, ranging all the way from China to the farthest tips of England and Spain. Coming close behind are the bolt-throwing springalds or espringals used in the defence of cities and large castles. |
Posted By: TJK
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 17:57
| It is intresting that some historian claims that some kind of trebuchet was used by Romans (under the name trabutium)... |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 04:14
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what would it be like... ------------- |
Posted By: Hyarmendacil
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 08:46
| If it existed--a proposition that is still storngly in doubt--I think it would look like the Chinese traction trebuchet. You'll find lots of pictures of it on the net, especially on http://members.iinet.net.au/~rmine/gctrebs.html - http://members.iinet.net.au/~rmine/gctrebs.html (The Grey Company Trebuchet Page). |
Posted By: Gallipoli
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 08:48
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Trebuchet, the one in AOK... ------------- |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 13:53
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Are there any differences between Trebuchets and Mangonels? ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 15:12
I also wonder that... ------------- |
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 16:12
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What is a manogel?
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Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2004 at 16:52
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I've got some good links to every occidental siege weapon: http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/ngp_arty.htm - http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/ngp_arty.htm
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Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 15:30
Oh, thanks for the link, Demon  ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 16:49
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mmh, so the only difference was that the counterweight was fixed to the beam... ------------- |
Posted By: Hyarmendacil
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 12:22
| That depends on the school of definition you follow. The French-speaking experts tend to maintain the distinction between trebuchets and mangonels (and I would keep that distinction when talking with French experts) but the English-speaking academic circles seem to favor the definition that puts the engines defined in French as "mangonels" and "trebuchets" under the single heading of counterweight trebuchets. In that line of definition, pierrieres are traction trebuchets and bricoles are "combined" or "transition" trebuchets. These terms (both French and English), of course, are modern definitions because it's very likely that medieval engineers never had such a clear-cut rule for classifying siege weapons. You're free to choose which school to follow as long as you remain consistent in your usage of terms. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 14:54
| Well, I think that the best siege unit of the Middle Ages is the trebuchet. It can fling heavy stones over a distance. It helped to turn the tables over to a real siege, not just a sit and starve operation. |
Posted By: TMPikachu
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 19:45
The Song Dynasty's cannons. I've only heard of them being used for defense though, but at that era China did not seem interested in conquoring the cities of other nations. Mongols faced heavy resistance in fortefied cities with cannons (amongst other things) to guard them. They also threw bombs into the invaders. Big loud bombs that flung out shrapnel. |
Posted By: Abyssmal Fiend
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 19:48
| No no no. The Cannons Henry V used against the French. They weren't exactly anti-siege, anti-fortification, or anti-soldier. They were more anti-order, since they threw the French into disarray repeatedly. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2004 at 02:33
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6
i think the hwacha were the best siege weapons because of its very unique features,it was both anti unit and anti seige!! it had a range of 1000m (not a typo) which is about 10 times more than a trebuchet. the hwacha fired up to 100 arrow-rockets which could be made to blow up in mid air to throw spikes and shrapels at the enemy or for it to blow up on contact. the hwacha was perfect for a siege becauseit caused fear, could blow up walls, destry archers on walls farther than the enemy archer's range, could kill large masses of troops at a time. On the other hand, trebuchets and catapults were strong against the wall, but short on range and had to have an entire team of people to operate it. The hwacha only took one.the boulders that the trebuchet or catapult threw could only squash one man (if lucky) and just make a whole bunch of dust.... so now what do u think is the best siege weapon? p.s. i got most of the info from another writer on this website. i dont know his name but thank you for your facts!! 
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 16:35
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Hwa cha's was good mainly for tightly packed formations...it took a very long time to reload though.
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Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 17:07
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I don't know if that is true...because all you do is put more shinkichon into the cartridges the way you reload bazooka ------------- Grrr.. |
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 17:30
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Im sure it did...think about it, it's not a cartridge its
basically 100 tiny holes and you stick projectiles into them...that's
gonna take a hell of a long time.
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Posted By: Abyssmal Fiend
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 22:03
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Yes. And by that time, you'll be lucky to get maybe 3 shots off, if you're experience, before the enemy cavalry runs your ass down and slaughters your team to a man. ------------- 
Di! Ecce hora! Uxor mea me necabit! |
Posted By: TMPikachu
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 22:07
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It's like saying "Missiles suck! You can just shoot the guy who pushes the button!" Well, yeah, but you have to get through a big chunk of guys before you can. |
Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 07:02
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Well, I know that in every battle with hwacha, they were fully loaded They are portable as well....one men can push it the way mayan trading cart pushes in Age Of Conq... ------------- Grrr.. |
Posted By: Hyarmendacil
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 22:11
| Hwacha were undoubtedly very useful in traditional set-piece battles, but in maneuvering encounters and meeting engagements they're not so handy, you know. It's hard to decide when to discharge them and when to reserve their firepower when you're not even certain about which force is the enemy's main force. The less concentrated but more flexible firepower of the normal cannon would be a better choice in such situations. |
Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 09:14
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Hwachas were useful in siege and defending siege warfares...they mowed down rows of Musket Samurais during a siege in imjin war. It helped the Korean militias numbering like 3000 defeat 20,000 professional Musket samurais in this fort...i think the name was fort hengju ------------- Grrr.. |
Posted By: Slickmeister
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2004 at 15:15
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I like the Trebuchets like that on AoE II: Age of Kings I am on the zone with screen name a32oz and I'll show you how cool trebuchets are. |
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 11-Nov-2004 at 15:35
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I never liked trebuchets in that game. Too slow. Pack and unpack and ect. I like bombards instead...
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Posted By: Liang Jieming
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2004 at 01:13
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How about this flybomb from the Song dynasty. Picture from Osprey's "Siege Engines of the Far East (I)" which incidently also shows a traction catalpult and hand grenade in the same picture.  This is the same thing from a military manual.  Jieming http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DragonSeedLegacy |