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Where was Varna? What does it mean?

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
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Topic: Where was Varna? What does it mean?
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: Where was Varna? What does it mean?
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2010 at 01:04
It was interesting for me when I read it about Indians: http://www.hvk.org/articles/0401/101.html - http://www.hvk.org/articles/0401/101.html
 
The fourth assumption is that the European races were white and had a colour prejudice against the dark races. The Aryans being a European race, it is assumed that it must have had colour prejudice. The theory proceeds to find evidence for colour prejudice in the Aryans who came into India. This it finds in the Chaturvarnya - an institution by the established Indo-Aryans after they came to India and which according to these scholars is based upon Varna which is taken by them to mean colour.
Not one of these assumptions is borne out by facts. Take the premise about the Aryan race. The theory does not take account of the possibility that the Aryan race in the physiological sense is one thing and an Aryan race in philological sense quite different, and that it is perfectly possible that, the Aryan race, if there is one, in the physiological sense may have its habitat in one place and that the Aryan race, in the philological sense, in quite a different place. The theory of the Aryan race is based on the premise of a common language and it is supposed to be common because it has a structural affinity. The assertion that the Aryans came from outside and invaded India is not proved and the premise that the Dasas and Dasyus are aboriginal tribes of India is demonstrably false.
Again, to say that the institution of Chaturvarnya is a reflection of the innate colour prejudice of the Aryans is really to assert too much. If colour is the origin of class distinction, there must be four different colours to account for the different classes, which comprise Chaturvarnya. Nobody has said what those four colours are and who were the four coloured races who were welded together in Chaturvarnya. As it is, the theory starts with only two opposing people, Aryas and Dasas - one assumed to be white and the other assumed to be dark...
Prof. Micheal Foster has somewhere said that 'hypothesis is the salt of science.' Without hypothesis there is no possibility of fruitful investigation. But it is equally true that where the desire to prove a particular hypothesis is dominant, hypothesis becomes the poison of science. The Aryan race theory of Western scholars is as good an illustration of how hypothesis can be the poison of science as one can think of.
The Aryan race theory is so absurd that it ought to have been dead long ago. But far from being dead, the theory has a considerable hold upon the people. There are two explanations which account for this phenomenon. The first explanation is to be found in the support which the theory receives from Brahmin scholars. This is a very strange phenomenon. As Hindus, they should ordinarily show a dislike for the Aryan theory with its express avowal of the superiority of the European races over the Asiatic races. But the Brahmin scholar has not only no such aversion but he most willingly hails it. The reasons are obvious. The Brahmin believes in the two-nation theory. He claims to be the representative of the Aryan race and he regards the rest of the Hindus as descendants of the non-Aryans. The theory helps him to establish his kinship with the European races and share their arrogance and their superiority. He likes particularly that part of the theory which makes the Aryan an invader and a conqueror of the non-Aryan native races. For it helps him to maintain and justify his over lordship over the non-Brahmins.
The second explanation why the Aryan race theory is not dead is because of the general insistence by European scholars that the word Varna means colour and the acceptance of that view by a majority of the Brahmin scholars. Indeed, this is the mainstay of the Aryan theory. There is no doubt that as long as this interpretation of the Varna continues to be accepted the Aryan theory will continue to live. This part of the Aryan theory is therefore very important and calls for fuller examination. It needs to be examined from three different points of view: (1) Were the European races fair or dark? (2) Were the Indo-Aryans fair? (3) What is the original meaning of the word Varna?
 
We read in Avesta: http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd1sbe.htm - http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd1sbe.htm
 
17. The fourteenth of the good lands and countries which I, Ahura Mazda, created, was the four-cornered Varena39, for which was born Thraetaona, who smote Azi Dahaka [Zohak].

Thereupon came Angra Mainyu, who is all death, and he counter-created abnormal issues in women40, and barbarian oppression41.



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Replies:
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2010 at 11:41
As you read here: http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/varna.htm - http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/varna.htm  
 
" The colour (Varna ) of the Brahmans was white, that of the Kshtriyas red, that of the Vaisyas yellow, and that of the Shudras black "
 
and about the caste: http://www.indopedia.org/Varna_%28caste%29.html - http://www.indopedia.org/Varna_(caste).html
 
The caste system in the Vedic culture has probably originated with prehistoric http://www.indopedia.org/Proto-Indo_European.html - Proto-Indo European peoples. In the framework of the " http://www.indopedia.org/index.php?title=Trifunctional_hypothesis&action=edit - trifunctional hypothesis " of [[Georges Dum�zil]], the presence of four castes is seen as an indication that the lowest caste consists of the descendants of a subjugated indigenous people, while the original system would have included three castes, priests, warriors and peasants, comparable to the three classes, viz. http://www.indopedia.org/Clergy.html - clergy , http://www.indopedia.org/Nobility.html - nobility and http://www.indopedia.org/Peasant.html - peasants of http://www.indopedia.org/Middle_Ages.html - medieval Europe. The supposed http://www.indopedia.org/Ethnic.html - ethnic difference between the castes is supported by the word varna "colour" itself, referring to the darker complexion of the lower castes.
 
There is a city named Varna in Bulgaria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophanes_the_Confessor - Theophanes the Confessor first mentioned the name Varna, as the city came to be known with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs - Slavic conquest of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans - Balkans in the 6th-7th century. The name may be older than that; perhaps it derives from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_root - Proto-Indo-European root we-r- (water) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varna#cite_note-bartleby.com-6 - [7] (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varuna - Varuna ), or from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic - Proto-Slavic root varn (black), or from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_languages - Iranian var (camp, fortress: see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_list_of_provinces_of_Bulgaria - Etymological list of provinces of Bulgaria ).
 
And about the four-cornered Varena, as you read here: http://www.chnpress.com/news/?section=1&id=1613 - http://www.chnpress.com/news/?section=1&id=1613  some say that is modern Varamin and that huge four-cornered fortress in Varamin which is believed to be built by Iraj, son of Thraetaona (Fereydun), the forefather of the Iranians:
 
 
 


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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2010 at 19:31
Cyrus, you keep showing us these great fortreses that still exist wihin Iran or the Aryan world! And, as you know, Iran, means Ayran!

I could well show you "wet land" fortresses, that while not exceed your walls in size, but most of all in "complexity!"

There exists within the inter-net world, literally hundreds of sites that place your posts as secondary sites!

But, time and place, sometimes overcomes our own "prejudiceS?"

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Kanas_Krumesis
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 14:25
Yes, the name "Varna" was given to the city by proto-Bulgars. This is word from proto-Bulgarian origin. It`s absolute fact, because this city was create as greek colony of Miletus around 570 B.C. and named Odessos. This denomination were in use till late Medieval, before proto-Bulgarian arrival. Than even greeks begin to use "Varna" parallel with Odessos (for example Theophanes in his work). For me the origin of the word must be search in Indo-European deity "Varuna" - master of the water. Varna is a large sea port.
  
Odessos was important point of Byzantine empire north of Balkan mountains and army lodgement for raids deep into Bulgarian territory (they easy transport large forces through Byzantine navy supremacy). That`s why one of the major tasks for Bulgarian Kingdom was to take control over the city. Bulgarian army took Varna few times and control it for years. Most spectacular was in 1201 when our army led by Tzar Kaloyan capture the city for just three day of siege using advanced military technology include enormous siege tower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Varna_%281201 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Varna_(1201 )
 
Varna today
 
 
 
 


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 14:42
Does the base word "Varna" and its variations, form the basis of the English word "Varnish?"

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Kanas_Krumesis
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 14:55
English word in used on the Balkans in around 7th century D.C.! I`m not so sure Smile
 
Opposite variant is also unacceptable. May be word have Germanic root.
 
I think English word "varnish" come from French word "vernis" which have absolute similar meaning. French words in English language are a lot.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2010 at 15:57
After doing some inter-net look ups, I have come to the conclusion that the name of the city, etc., means nothing more nor less than; "Protection!"

http://www.woxikon.com/fra/vernis.php

Thus any good sea-port, offers seamen "protection!", or as so many Germanic ports were called "Havens", etc., which might well also be connected to the Biblical word Heaven? A safe harbor,etc.!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Kanas_Krumesis
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2010 at 01:34
I found this pictures of Iraj castle near Varamin in Net.
 
 
 
The castle had really strong walls. It is seen by mighty remains  


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2010 at 07:23
"Varna" can be related to "water", in Persian "Varan" means "rain" and I think "Ver" means "sea" in the Old Norse but "-na" (-ana/-an) at the end of the word can be a suffix which forms the names of places or people in the Indo-European languages, like American and Iran (Airyana), so Varna or Varena could be a place name or the name of a people, there are some places with this name in Iran, such as Varna in Isfahan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5019382/varna.html - http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5019382/varna.html  and Varna-Kand (Like Samarkand) in Azerbaijan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5006115/varna_kand.html - http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5006115/varna_kand.html

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 08:46
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

"Varna" can be related to "water", in Persian "Varan" means "rain" and I think "Ver" means "sea" in the Old Norse but "-na" (-ana/-an) at the end of the word can be a suffix which forms the names of places or people in the Indo-European languages, like American and Iran (Airyana), so Varna or Varena could be a place name or the name of a people, there are some places with this name in Iran, such as Varna in Isfahan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5019382/varna.html - http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5019382/varna.html  and Varna-Kand (Like Samarkand) in Azerbaijan: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5006115/varna_kand.html - http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5006115/varna_kand.html


Cyrus, as you wrote above concerning "Ver" or possinly "Var" meaning "Sea", and the "na" ending noting a place, then it is reasonable to make a connection with "Var-na" meaning; Sea-Port, or "Sea Protection", or "Haven", etc.!

As it may pertain to desert areas like Iran and Iraq, etc., then the old analogy of the Camel being the "Ship of the Desert!", is easily applied to caravan "protections?" or "Ports!" It is merely a smart reversal of word play!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2012 at 12:51
Since currently I'm in Varna...I like the connection with water best, makes sence, considering that the city is on the Black Sea.
Accidently, in Bulgarian "var" is the name of whiting lime agent people used t white their houses with here; so the words connect to white color.


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Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2012 at 21:30

There seem to be 2 semi-/separate questions, 1 about Varena (Iranian name/word) and 1 about varna (Indian word/name relating to castes/"colour").

For Varena, varena in Iranian mean heaven/sky (Uranus) [&/or (Yima's) var "cover/cave/Ark"] and it makes sense re the "four-cornered".
[Interestingly it is similar to the Egyptian Urani/Uranes/[wernes] "land of the sunset, though i doubt they are related.]
As mentioned, Varena is one of the 16 lands created by Ahura Mazda.

Airyaneh Vaeja [iran?]
Mouru [meru/mashu?]
Bakhdhi [bactria?]
Vaekerata
Vehrkana
14th/(4-cornered)Varena
Nisaya [nysa?]
Harahvaiti [sarasvati/haurvatat/harut?]
Heatumant [hittites?]
Kakhra
Urva
Haroyu
Ragha [rages?]
Rangha
Hapta-Handu [sind/india].

For varna,

I saw in one source it reckoned that the Indian castes were originally based on merit/vocation but later became skin-colour dominated? Red for kshatriyas like red for blood/war. Not sure if I remember correctly that I also heard that the highest caste was orignally red/kshatriyas one which was later usurped by white/brahmins one?

The Indian [tripartite] castes system of code of Manu (which Dumezil reckoned a distinquishing mark of the Aryans) is connected with the Genesis account of Noah/Madjnun cursing Ham/Canaan to be a slave of Shem, and it is found in many ancient cultures/civilisations.

Peru: 3 eggs/castes/metals (gold, silver, copper);
African: I saw in Unesco book that one people had 3 castes (lost what page);
Western: third estate;
Norse: 3 castes (jarl, karl, thrall/theow);
Greek: spartiates, perioikoi, helots (rough memory only);
Israel/Palestine: 3 castes ('salisha' "third");
Sumer: 3 castes {amelu, mushkinu, wardum/slave}?
Iran: 3 castes/sons of Feridun/Yima (Aria/Eraj, Salm/sayrima, Tur);
India: "3 aryan castes" (kshatriya, brahmin, vishya/vipra) of 4 castes of code of Manu (Manu father of 3 sons Sama/Scherma, Chama, Pra-Japeti/Jyapeti);
Maori: 3 castes (tangata rangitira, tangata-maori/"common", slaves);

The dualism of 2 groups of Arya & Dasyus (below, Devas & Asuras above) is also seemingly perhaps matched in other cultures eg Aesir & Vanir (Norse), Apollonian & Dionysian? Olympian & Titan (Greece), Horus race & Set race (Egypt), seed of woman & seed of serpent (bible), sons of God & daughters of Men (bible)? sons of light & sons of darkness (bible)? sarku/light & admu/dark (sumer), ashavan & drugvan (Iran), shen & kwei (china)? big ears and short ears (Easter Island). Seems to repesent on one hand "in" and "out". But it is confusing because they also/alternatively had non-dualist meaning like "both/and" right & left (hand-path, wing), not a dualistic "either/or".


The 4 colours/castes may also possibly represent the 4 rivers of Eden. Donald MacKenzie showed how cultures connected the 4 ages, 4 castes, 4 metals/colours, 4 compass points/rivers, etc. Egypt also had 4 races Rot/red/Egyptian, Namu/yellow/Asiatic, Nahsu/black/Ethiopian/Nubian, Tamahu/Meshwesh/white/Libyan.
(Interesting that red highest in Egyptian and originally Indian; and that white/silver highest in some and 2nd/silver-age in others?)




Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2012 at 08:45
Warriors like the Viking Halfdan were nicknamed "the Black" if they were particularly ferocious. Medenaywe might be able to tell us if there's a link between black (shvartz) and war (var)

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 22-Oct-2012 at 09:04
VaRNa=Enslaved sprout offers!
It was another slaves merchants market place in nearest past...It is my opinion...Big smile


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 11:05
Originally posted by medenaywe

VaRNa=Enslaved sprout offers!
It was another slaves merchants market place in nearest past...It is my opinion...Big smile

Traditionally slaves were swarthy (schwarz/black/dark-skinned) men taken as prisoners of war


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 12:41
Were USA&GB POW in Japan&Germany black all Nick?!?What did Russians use for prisoned soldiers in WW2
?!?Slavery does not depends of skin color&race Nick.


Posted By: longbaby
Date Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 19:58
Well I don't think POW can be called slaves.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 23-Oct-2012 at 23:46
Geneva convention came long time after longbaby.Enslaved sprout&arm I accept similar as labor market place.Did "slaves" belong to syndicate or not?Who does knows?SmileSlavery exists today also.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 03:44
i agree slavery exists today and isn't along race/skin lines but socio-economic. At the same time the evidence is that the 3 castes of ancient cultures did come from Noah's cursing.


Posted By: longbaby
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 05:40
Taking POWs as slaves reminds me of a prehistoric practice. In premitive era, one purpose of people's starting a war is to get more slaves. According to Hegel, to take more slaves meets one's desire to gain more acknowledgement. I wonder what more POWs imply in a war nowadays.


Posted By: tzar
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 13:14
First of all you have to define what is slave. This is very important point actually. There is one old Chinese story which tells that mouse afraid  from cat, everyone knows why, then cat from the dog, the dog from the man, the man from the wind, the wind from the castle and castle from the mouse. So it could be rephrase according to today's reality that everyone is slave to another one. Actually t is very hard to enslave someone if doesn't want it. The world is not so simple....

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Everybody listen only this which understands.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2012 at 13:46
Slave is opposite of Master.SmileThat means that person have lost freedom and free will!Person does not rules
his&Her life.I tried once to talk about it here but...Tzar,Varna is not only place on Balkan with this name.Go
to Origins you can find lot of them.Agree with You we have to accept this name according time it was created.


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 25-Oct-2012 at 09:31
Originally posted by longbaby

Taking POWs as slaves reminds me of a prehistoric practice. In premitive era, one purpose of people's starting a war is to get more slaves. According to Hegel, to take more slaves meets one's desire to gain more acknowledgement. I wonder what more POWs imply in a war nowadays.

This was the reason why the slave trade was so big in the 18th and 19th centuries. Warring African tribes were given guns by the Europeans in return for prisoners


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2013 at 12:18
VaRNa=Enslaved brat is offered&proposed by&with&in Varna.
Enslaved brat offers&proposes Varna.Period.


Posted By: mojobadshah
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2013 at 21:09

The only thing that comes to mind is what Arthur Robin has pointed out: that Varna could be related to Varuna who if I'm not mistaken was associated with the ocean. 



Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 18-Dec-2013 at 00:09

VaRuNa=Enslaved-Slavish hand&managment is proposed&offered by&with&in Varuna....proposes Varuna.Enslaved&Slavish hand&administration proposes Varuna.Regards.



Posted By: mojobadshah
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2014 at 20:40
Originally posted by mojobadshah

The only thing that comes to mind is what Arthur Robin has pointed out: that Varna could be related to Varuna who if I'm not mistaken was associated with the ocean. 


To add to this I think the place name Buner (in Pakistan) might be derived from Varuna.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2014 at 23:48
Actually after WW-II German POW's, were treated as "slaves", if not in the USA, but in other places. Thus a former associate of mine, who stated that he was a form NAZI fighter pilot, told me that after the war he was designated to replace the son of an English family via his working for the Mother and Father of the lost son, who died fighting the Germans.

As I remember this man named "Hans", was required to work for and replace a son of an English family for a period of two or more years, before he could be released to return to Germany!

If this was not a form of slavery, I don't know what is?

Regards, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 16-Feb-2014 at 11:59
VaRuNa=Varuna=Enslaved-Slavish-Productive hand-managment is offered-proposed by&in&with Varuna.
Enslaved-Slavish-Productive hand-administration offers-proposes Varuna.
NOTE:Cause slave is product second meaning of this syllable is product.Productive hand sounds
softly as expressive form!"Labor markets" were those places in ancient times!


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 23-Feb-2014 at 23:39
(No offense but) I did not say or mean that Varna and Varuna were connected, I said that the topic seemed to be about 2 different things varna (colour/castes), and, varena (one of the 16 lands [and also word heaven/sky in Iranian myth (compare sky/water deity Uranus/Varuna?*)]).
Btw the "Thereupon came Angra Mainyu, who is all death, and he counter-created abnormal issues in women40, and barbarian oppression41." parallels Genesis "Adam's rule vs Eve's desire", and women pain in childbirth (& periods).
4 cornered-fortress sounds abit like tetrapolis of Nimrod? or like the Ark of Noah (Peter's vessel in Acts, varuna's clay house in Indian, Yima's var in Iranian)?* or 4 castes?
Dailam/Tabaristan/Gilan sounds abit like Dilmun/Sabit/Gilgamesh??
*Dravidian Varuna is perhaps a bit like Noah?


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2014 at 00:00
It could be.Till the moment i become official source Arthur-Robins.Regards.Smile


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2014 at 15:20

could Ran(g)ha the 16th of the 16 lands created by AM be Lanka? (or Drangiana??) rather than Assyria? Though maybe not since some spellings are abit different, and the land seems to have been cooler etc?

i'm not sure whether the identification of the lands with Iran provinces is right or not.

for 4 cornered Varena (& 16 [4x4] lands?):
4: cornered Varena (14th of 16 lands AM); 4 rivers Eden, 4 corners/winds Heaven [varena], 4 corners/quarters/compass points/cardinal points Earth,
4 corner sheet vessel Peter in Acts [~Ark?], tetraoplis Nimrod , 4 castes/colours (varna) India, 4 beasts/metals Daniel, 4 ages Ovid, 4 suns Aztec,
[4 heads Brahma?]; Varamin 4 cornered fort/castle; Tabaristan roughly quadrilateral; 4 races Egypt (rot namu tamahu nahsu); 4 lands neighbouring Airyana Vaejo (Tur/Toz, Salm/Sayrima, Saini, Dahi);

for 7/5 rivers:
5 rivers Punjab; 5 clans Vedic; 5 peaks meru? zoroaster 5th gen? 5 zones globe; 5 lands Airyana Vaejo & 4 neighbouring;
7 rivers Egypt/Sind; 7 karshvars; 7 castesEgypt; 7 climate zones, 7 stages/spheres ziggurats;

for 16 lands:
8 Nagus Babylonian map? 8 vasus;
16 (4men x 4races) Egypt; 16 lands Ahura M & [16] plagues Angra M; 16/32 compass points
17 provinces Mari
18 signs zodiac Sumerian

I thought Varena/Varn/Varenem might possibly connect with Van (Urartu) but doesn't look like it after checking.
Bara-min means "(created) kinds" in Biblical hebrew.
4 cornered Varena could be Atlantis (large rectangular plain; Varuna is regent of west; varena/varuna heaven / ocean/Poseidon, Urani/Uranes/Wernes/Amenti/Pet), or Shinar/Sumeria (their world was rectangualr plain), or China (earth square)?
Might make more sense as a land/nation/compass point than just a city/fort?

Not sure if Aryana-vaejo & 4 neighbour lands could be Eden & 4 rivers/lands? (d/r interchange?) Or the land and river sounds abit like Aeria & Tritonis?


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2014 at 18:56
A nice post Arthur! Good show!

But, I would rather go back in this series of postings to mention the word "Aryan!", and then the backsliding into "race!" Yes I know that in the last couple of centuries it has taken hold as a "skin colour" problem! But, was it originally that way?

I posit, that skin color had little to do with it! In the olden days of the 13th to the 17th century CE, that it seems people were identified via their dress! Thus certain trades-people, were easily identified via the manner of their dress, the colors, the hats, the shoes, etc.!

And I also posit, that religious groups were also identified via the same process. It is well known that Roman Catholics had various bands of "brothers" and "sisters" who defined their status via their apparel!

Thus some wore "white" some "black and white" some "black", etc.! Many of them were also identified via their caps/hats or headwear!

Thus, I posit that the word "Aryan" is a religious term, that described the attire of the member, rather than the skin color!

That is, those represented as "Aryans" were really of a religious group called, as we all well know, "ARIANS!", and "Arianism!"

Check it out!

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 26-Feb-2014 at 23:42
Well that last post(s) of mine was only about one of the 2 rightly or wrongly confounded topics in this thread, where was land Varena/"Varamin" of the 16 lands, not other the Varna &/or Arya/Dasyu one. (The only connection i can see are the names/words Varna/Varena and the 4 cornered / 4 castes/colours.) [ps I wonder if sughdhas & shudra & shutu are related?]
The other (4) varna/castes / (2) Aryan/Dasyu / race / slavery topic is too controversial & difficult/uncertain for me to offer any thing much.
Many cultures had (3) classes/castes/estates (& occupations (& guilds)) like the Indian 4/3 varna/castes.
Sometimes classes are based on conduct/merit/moral/behaviour/ability/character, sometimes "blood/breeding", sometimes they are injust inequalities/discrimination/slavery/race/skin ("adam's rule" / "barbarian oppresion"?). (Golding's 'Lord of the Flies' also has 4 types. 4 classical humours?)
Many cultures/groups seem to of had "good & evil / in & out" "spiritual"/cultural/religious/racial (2) "types/seeds". (So its not just clothing/dress.)
On one hand they may be earlier and later waves/groups.
As far as i understand it the "race/ethnic" was only an issue to some cultures because societies must have a certain amount of common cohesion/integration/unity not just diversity/differences, and races like individuals are all different in inner not just outer (& not just skin) traits (just different not superior/inferior), and to preserve not destroy biodiversity & identity. (Tho it may also connect with the "gods" theories and go back to the sons of god & daughters of men.)
There has been divisions/wars/etc ever since the Fall and Babel (racism, sexism, etc), and christianity re-harmonises our diversity/nations within God/Jesus / common/unity/love/balance (as this system tries to do).


India:
Arya/"Nordic/European/white/fair" - Dasyu/an-arya/a-nasa/"Dravidian/dark/asian" (below);
Devas - Asuras (above);
Kshatriya,Brahman - Vishya/Vipra - Sudra - outcastes/[pariah/chandela]
satya yuga/krita yuga - kali yuga/dark age/pashu;

Iran:
Aria/Arya/Eraj/Iraj - (Salm/Sayrima) - Turanian
aryan - anarian
Ashavan - Drugvan
Ameshas/Ahuras - Devas (above)

Iraq
amelu - mushkinu - wardum/slaves
Sarku - Admu?
capelid - mediterranean?
Semitic - Accadian (AHSayce)?

Biblical/Hebrew/DSS/Christian:
good/right/light - evil/wrong/dark
2 seeds: seed of woman - seed of serpent
sons of light - sons of darkness/kittim
Shem/yah - Japheth/el - Ham/slave
clay - iron(&claymixed)?
lazarus - dives
Jew - Gentile
christian - heathen/pagan/heretic
angels - demons
free (truth) - slave (he who sins is a slave of sin)
God - mammon/usury
spirit - flesh
new man - old man
adam's rule?/[abel's rule] - eve's desire?/[cains desire]

Egypt:
Rot - Namu,Nahsu,Tamahu
Horus race / Horus(-&-Set/Nubti) - Set race / Set
Amonians - Atenists;

Atlantis account:
divine element/nonmaterialistic - lost the divine element/became material/degenerat/decadent/corrupt;
Athens - Atlantis;

Greek:
olympians - titans
Hellenes - Pelasgians?
Spartiates - Perioikoi - Helots
eusebius - machimos
Greek - Barbarian
Athens - Atlantis
Mycenae - Troy
monarchy - aristocracy - democracy - tyranny - oligarchy - ochlocracy

Norse:
Aesir - Vanir?
gods - dark?
Jarl - Karl - Thrall/theow ("swarthy pows")

Modern western world:
good - evil
corporates/producers - consumers/customers/clients
middle class - working class
fit - unfit (evolutionism)
haves - havenots
ruling classes - underclasses
people with unfluoridated water - people with fluoridated water
antiracists/egalitarians/multiculturalism - racists/discrimination/prejudice/inequality/hate;
workers - "bludgers"/slave-for-dole
gold medal - silver medal - bronze
healthy/balanced - mentally ill
lawabdiing - criminal/illegal
[moral - immoral]
landlord - tenant
homeowners - renters
rich/wealthy - poor
"serious" "scholars/science" - "fringe/woo-woo" "sounds-like"

"Satanism"/Occult:
nondual/"both/and"/synthesis - dualist/"either/or"
can exist alone - can't exist alone
2 'types'/'conceptsofdeity': serpent race - adamite/klippoth
dark / left (& right) hand path - light / right (or left) hand path
esoteric - exoteric
master - slave
as above - so below
predator - prey
nature - inverse nature
mesomorph - ectomorph

nazis/nietzsche:
aryan/culture-bearers/herrenvolk - jew/culture distorters/parasite
fighters - lukewarm - traitors
citizen - subject - foreigner
german - slav
common interest - self interests / thralldom of interest
overman/superman - untermensch

nationalists/newright/radicaltraditionalist/eugenics: (note these aren't dualist)
right(&left)wing - left(orright)wing
tribalist/nationalist/racialism/biodiversity - globalist/egalitarian/multiculturalism
class unity - class warfare
"celt - mediterranean/firbolg"
eugenic - dysgenic
genetics - ideology

AJGregor:
men - nonmen

Julius Evola:
spiritual race - material race

[Gerald Massey / Hitler / etc:
in - out/innerenemies&outerenemies]

FPYockey/UlickVarange:
vertical race - horizontal race
european/occident - noneuropean peoples/forces / orient
culture - culture distorters

Allempires/WorldHistoria:
Allempires - worldhistoria?
moderators/[goodposters] - trolls/spammers
[historyfacts - fomenko?]

Irish/Celt:
TDD - Fomor
plant don - plant llyr?
Arthur -- Mordred?/saxons

China:
shen - kwei

NZ/Maoris/Polynesia:
Big ears - short ears
Waitaha - Maori
Maori - Pakeha
tangata rangitira - tangata maori/common/ordinary - slaves
uru - whiro

Peru:
sons of light - giants deprived of light
3 eggs: gold - silver - copper?

star wars:
light side/balance - dark side
republic/rebel alliance/rebelion - empire

terminator:
humans - terminators

'halfmen of o':
[forgot name] - halfies


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2014 at 06:47
just thought whether land Varena/Varn/Varenem might connect with suvarnagotra/su-v'arNa-gotra/su-fa-la-na-chli-ta-lo/su-fa-la-na-chu-ta-lo/su-fa-la-nu-kiu-tha-lo/suvarnabhumi "(western) land of women/land of gold/family of gold/golden family/golden clan/golden race/golden matriarchy/amazonian kingdom/matriarchal kingdom" (ladakh) identified by some with Agartha/Agarthi [~ Shambhala?]

there is also "savarna gotra". only 1st 3 castes have gotras/lineages. communities which belong to 4 varna/castes are called savarna.



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