Well, afaik, Japan tends to feel superior over those who are worse off, but tends to praise and worship those who are better.  Like before Meiji revolution, they did consider Ming and other Chinese dynasties as superior, and adopted many of its policies, like the System of Government and it's hieroarchy.  But after they've seen European supremacy over China, they started adopting the Europeans, and starting warshipping it's ideals. 

Currently Japan is better off economically than China, thus Japanese won't care about them.  Unless China economically-wise defeats Japan, which would come in a couple of years.

for the majority of the last two centuries, the chinese were feeling superior to the japanese and the japanese were feeling inferior to the Chinese sending tributes and regarded the chinese emperor (especially during the tang dynasty) as their overlord. wa japan was regarded as a nation of "short slaves" in chinese during the han dynasty. Much of the japanese government structure and civil system were adopted from Tang China.

the situation didn't get reverse until the end of the 19th century. but it's switching again. i would say for the most time, chinese people have looked down on japanese people throughout the last two centuries. in fact, they still do kinda. in mainland china, japanese people are regarded as "little japs" even today. any chinese person would love to see japan vanish from history. it's a commonly hated country in china.

even today, most japanese still admire ancient chinese culture, poetry, tradition. the japanese emperor's title and year title are still decided based on han chinese tradition. most japanese know about chinese history. for example, dynasty warriors, romance of the three kingdoms, and a lot of games based on chinese history are made by the japanese.

on a greater scale, it was only a brief japanese intervention of chinese domination in east asia.

Hey Spartakus and Coolstorm,

Warning: "jap" is a derorgatory term for Japanese.  I assume you buys weren't aware of that fact (I can see the temptation to write it as an abbreviation, but be warned now that it is not an acceptable term.)  (Clarification: Coolstorm said it in quotation, meaning that it's not his words but the words of others, so I'm not saying he's making a mistake here.  I only included him just in case he isn't aware of the derorgatory connotation of the term.)

I think there is a love hate relationship between Japan and China.  There is a certain amount of respect reflected by Japan's adaptation of Chinese culture & incorporating it into their own.  I know Japanese students who know far far more about Chinese history (Including Romance of the Three Kingdoms) and my Chinese counterparts.  In the same token, some (I hate to generalize) do feel that if you are not my superior, I must be yours attitude.  This is most prevailing with their feelings about Koreans.  Man, if you think they look down on China, ask them about Korea.

In the same token, Chinese feel that superiority complex also.  Some (again no generalizations) feel that they are Greece and Rome all wrapped up into one great culture.  The difference between the Japanese and Chinese attitude is that Japanese will evaluate the situation and if they see they are inferior, they will admit it (not openly of course) and try to adapt their style to replicate the superior's style (like China and Europeans).  The Chinese will not adapt and stick to their guns at almost all cost.  However, they are more open toward individuals (foreigners) as compared to Japanese. 

On a side note, I think part of the reason why the Chinese fell behind on the technology side (from Middle Ming onward to maybe last couple of years) is because of corruption/greed.  You can say it was the downfall of most, if not all countries.

I agree that Chinese tend to have a sort of complacency, but when they are humiliated in the most crushing way, their ego shatter and they feel a severe "negative" inferiority complex (as opposed to Japanese "positive" inferority complex that motivates them to learn from others and eventually surpass others.)  When Chinese began to feel inferior (the past century,) the tendency is to turn against themselves, blame everything on their past, and worship the "superior" people (such as the West.)  To demonstrate this, speak fluent English next time you are shopping in, say, Hong Kong: note the difference of attitude they have towards you from if you spoke Cantonese or Mandarin to them (don't even speak Mandarin, especially not with a Mainland accent, Hong Kong people will treat you like dirt.)  You will note a drastic change of attitude, even if you're not White, you just have to speak fluent English.

That's a bit oversimplifying.  A major reason that Japan's Meiji Restoration succeeded but the Chinese reformation didn't was that China was much, much larger and the political sectors were too diffuse.  The reformers had a really difficult time uniting themselves.  Japan also had its share of conservatives reluctant to change, but the smallness of size made it much easier for the reformers to oppose the conservatives.

haha, i agree. never ever speak mandarin in hk, or if you do, don't let others hear it...

It's quite sad indeed.  A friend of my mom went to Hong Kong, and for some reason people thot they were Mainlanders (they've been living the US for a long time.)  Then they busted out speaking English, and the service people came serving them like bees on honey.  It's disgusting the way Hong Kong people cower at all things English.

that's also why you talk to your friends in english when clubbing. a lot easier to pick up chicks.

well, i think it's been the case in hk for a long time, but it's changing now as the mainlanders are spending big bucks in hk.

To MengTzu, Tobodai, & Coolstorm,

I am from HK & you guys hit it right on the mark.  However, I think attitudes are changing because those mainlanders are bringing big bucks to HK.  That is the same attitude as the Japanese with Chinese but I believe it will change in short time.  When you think about it, in all societies, it is all about money.  If you have more money, others will treat you better.  If you have less, you are treated like a surf.  However, i see the tide changing.  Quite a number of foreigners are learning Mandarin because they feel that it will be a important language in business affairs. 

Back to Mengtzu reply to my post, I agree with your statement and like to add that the inferiority complex that Chinese suffered is partly caused by financial constraints.  Individually & as a country.  They see how backward we were compared to the West & Japan.  But it goes further than that.  Again, this is my observations, Japanese stick together and help each other out.  Chinese don't.  You can make the case that there are fewer Japanese around so numbers equate strength.  The Chinese have an more American or individualistic attitude about everything.  That can be a good and bad thing.  When Japanese make a decision, it is a group decision & blame & credit is dispersed evenly.  Chinese make decisions individually and take all the credit when things go well & blame somebody else when things go bad.  On the same token, Chinese are more flexible while Japanese are more rigid in many ways.   Please keep in mind that these are my observations & I hate to generalize.

The teamwork of Japanese and lack of by the Chinese, I get to the Ming Dynasty statement.  Things look so good during the Yongle & Hongwu period.  Land expansion, Technologically superior to everybody, Treasure Fleet to Africa, Taking the fight to the Mongols by Yongle.  Then it all came crashing down.  My feeling that it happened is because not because of Confucius teaching as stated in many of the textbooks.  These teaching was around in the Tang & Song Dynasties & they flourish from trade with other countries.  I believe it is caused by corruption & greed (in a bad way).  The conservatives did not want change because it might diminish their power base.  The Eunech (misspelling) also feared the same.  I can go on and on but I would have to type a college thesis.  If interested, I read a book called "The Year of No Signifiance" which detailed the rule of Emperor Wanli.  Wanli (that fat, self indulgent, lazy sh*t) was the cancer which eventually cause the downfall of the Ming & ushered the rise of the Manchu.  The book is out of print though.

The Meiji rest. materialized, from my view, due to their defeat at Korea buy the Ming & Korean.  Followed by the realization that the western powers was indeed superior to them.  They realized they had to evolve or see their fate like what was currently happening at the time with China. 

No way.  The Chinese have a kind of "collective individualism."  There's is a Chinese saying, "every family sweeps the snow in front of its own house."  It is still not individualism, it's clanishness, if you will.  Chinese people are clicky, whether the cliques are families or groups of friends.  Each group takes care of its own, refusing to have greater integration.  Of course, I'm generalizing as well.

¡¡¡¡¡¡agreed...like Dr Sun Yat-Sen said in his Three Principles of the People...he said that Chinese will go through great lenghts to protect and expand his clan...he'll even die for it...but when it comes to serving or dying for the nation...he shrugs his shoulders.

To Mengtzu & Babyblue,

I agree with your interpretation.  I should have been more complete with my statement.  Just alot of stuff in one email.

I must agree with red guard.  The Japanese students I meet have a very strong interest in Chinese and Chinese History.  It is a shame the interest is not the same with Chinese Americans over here.

I think some of the hatred against the Japanese stems Kozumi annual visit to that war shrine.  Relations was not good to begin with & his action just makes the situation worse.  Also, the government will not apologize for WWII and even try to marginalize incidents like the Rape of Nanjing stating that the casualitie numbers is inflated.  Again, I speak from my experience with Japanese students, they realize what the truth is and the Japanese Government position is not what they believe. 

On the same token.  There is a Korean girl I use to know and she stated "I hate Japanese people for what they did to us (Korea)!"  She was referring specifically to a Japanese friend (male) that I had.  I just like to state that attitude is just plain wrong.  One must seperate individuals & government policies.

Hi everyone.

I must say we have a really interesting forum here! So, being the newbie here, I'll like to say "hi" to everyone!

About the topic...

I agree with jiangwei. Germany admitted what they have done during WW2, and condemned what the Nazis did. I at first thought like Red Guard.

"It's sooooo long time ago, why hate them still?" My father told me: "You never had the feeling of witnessing your nation's struggle to live, did you?" He was clearly referring to the crazed massacres of Chinese civilians during WW2. "But the army is to be blamed, not Japan itself!" I told him. He shook his head in disappointement and told me: "Think as you wish then."

I personally think that the Japanese (generalizing and excluding the enlightened ones) look down on Chinese (I might be VERY wrong). After all, they once called the Chinese "The Sick of East-Asia". Some stories told by Japanese POWs say that they were very frustrated when they heard about the Chinese success in the Korean War. They were thinking: "How can this army, that we once crushed so easily, drive back the ones who defeated us, the US?" This bad opinion of them might very well change if they actually admit what they did during WW2 as agression and not as "Liberation" as some of them called it. And I really think they shouldn't glorify those military campaigns (ought not to be called campaign, just pushing back the army and killing everything in the path...) like they do in certain books...

I wish to see Japan and China becoming good friends one day too... but that day might be quite far away. (Especially that now, Japan is exposing some will to.. "expand its political influence...")

I also have trouble understand why they have this paranoia of China bombing and invading Japan... It's hard to understand. They were the agressors in the first place!

    if you killed my father, you too, will live forever with the fear of me repaying this debt to you one hundred fold...

      ...btw, welcome...

   I'm not member of the CCP, but i am sucked of your words that treat chinese people as stupid as you are.

Although in my family no one had suffered so much from the invasion of Japan.

   But I also hate the invasion for some special and individual reasons. 

   eg.  Japan airforce had dropped a bomb not explosed  in my high school's guarden in 1941,  only till recently my school had it digged out .Because of my curiosity ,once I had sneak into the locked garden and pissed in the man-made lake that lay the the bomb, what a f*c*, had i know this ,i would'nt do that.

  It's true, we even shout like thouder in the hall , it is excited. I don't think it is wrong . Without such taught,  we would hate Japanese too.

  That is the only words i appreciate.

   I know you are some kind of chinese  , if not, I would have more sharp criticize.       Don't just stay in that area the size of Nosesh*t on map, try go around.

   The last, i  apologize to all the forumers , I don't hope such quarrel advance to a higher grade. So ,general_Zhaoyun , i would like to discuss with you personally , i offer you a channel , write to me or left your message.

Originally posted by YAFES pretty surprised there's noone japanese here

    No one  like to be target.   

Yup besides..look at the contributions the japanese people gave to us..anime, ddr, karaoke-jam, video games for ps2 etc..lol!!

c'mon!

   Many chinese also have such thoughts and always being cool and peaceful, but when they walk onto the street, nobody force them, they just join the protesting and demostration.

   Acoording to someone's logic, we generation of mainland chinese grow up under the anti-japanese taught, that is why we hate japan. Basiclly, I don't think so, we could distinguish what the Japan government does and common japanese people. But we are also quite aware what the spirit nature and unique japanese cultureral influence  are, they are "dangerous" in some sense, easy to be inflamed to extreme. They once learned much from China, but they didn't learn to be honest and sincerely. Japanese are real hard-working under high pressure , I don't expect some of them have good health both with body and minds.

   It is not only about the remodify on school books whick would be only a trigger, but also their dirty works done to the Diaoyu island and taiwan issue.

     So, your country had never been real controlled by China as you say, but you are always having strong sensitive and easily to be angered in many areas ,sometimes in words.

     Do you think the image were more important than your country's intergrity and respect?

     Well, well, I lost my way, for discussion history not to be emotional.

Originally posted by YAFES pretty surprised there's noone japanese here

im 1/2 

Originally posted by King Chulalongkorn welcome!

then I should open a new topic in the Tavern. see you there

Please do not ignore why people in China are angry at the government of Japan.In fact, we did and do try to forget everthing unpleasant between us,but very funny, the leaders of Japanese government continually reminded us ( by their action not words)they Japanese believe what their former generation did on us were right.
 
There is nothing wrong with our angerness and protest, what's wrong was the violent action,but 99% Chinese demonstrators kept the peace. Western media, such as CNN and washington post(through my reading)deliberately exaggerated the negative side of the protest and distain the true feeling of us. In their eyes, a people under the rule of  communist party,  never have their own voice,if there is a voice,it must be utilized by the CCP government. Wrong!

My  friend, don't justify what Japan did because of their Karaok.If Japan did as 1/2 good as German did on history, everything will be ok.

As for the Diaoyu Island,Japanese government not only claims it,but also occupying it now. This does not mean the Island belong to Japan, for international community including USA, never recognized what Japan did on our Island was legal,if you don't believe,please ask your government.
 
China are doing bussiness with Japan, perhaps the CCP goverment think business is the most important thing at present, and does not willing to spoil the commercial relationship between China and Japan just because of the tiny Island. So I can  tell you that the ultimate solution will come once the time is appropriate.

As for Taiwan,I,a mainlander, uphold the continuation of its' democratic state  too. But we do not need Japan,a former criminal,uphold the continuation of democracy of a part of my country by its military force.

   Did he really feel superior? I doubt. For people sometimes  like to show superior when he was inferior complex.

   I would consider it as ego-boost more than confidence for Hideyoshi at that time. Japan was lacked of necessarily resource and prosperity to feel superior to Ming then.  Well, in the WWII, Germen slaughtered Jewrish, For excuse they said they were superior while the truth is Jewish's factual superior bring  disasters to Jewrish themselves.

Would it have been possible for a 15-year-old, single, Japanese girl, to travel from Japan to China during the late 1700s, preferrably between the years 1769-1773?

I agree with Flyingzone's input on this matter. Using western standard to judge Asian affairs or non-European affairs in the general in the practical world often result in "tragic" outcomes.

Flyingzone is well aware of this problem with "euro-centric" views,(the counter part would be "sino-centric", so no offense there)

hmmm........ I smell some ultranationalistic agenda from this hando guy. I'll take a guess that he's a korean nationalists, as he replied with a bad tone about chinese people looking down at the koreans.

I think that is an unfair generalization. I don't think the Chinese people are on average more or less "nationalistic" than people of other nationalities. While my personal opinion towards nationalism is rather low, I think some degree of nationalism is acceptable (and is inevitable too). What really concerns me is extreme or aggressive nationalism, and that is definitely not a monopolistic characteristic of the Chinese. It is everywhere, evident even in a small community like AE. That's actually what most of the bans are about.

When one accuses the Chinese of being more "nationalistic" than other nationalities, is one guilty of making a biased statement oneself too?