Pre-Ottoman Muslims of central Europe
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Medieval Europe
Forum Discription: The Middle Ages: AD 500-1500
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26631
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 16:17
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Topic: Pre-Ottoman Muslims of central Europe
Posted By: Al Jassas
Subject: Pre-Ottoman Muslims of central Europe
Date Posted: 20-Feb-2009 at 17:22
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Hello to you all
This thread is about pre-Ottoman muslims in central europe.
Reading Yaqut's accounts I found he talks about a group of muslims who came from central europe and had quite different customs than people of the levant. They shaved ther beards, women didn't wear hijab and were of course european looking.
Now when I used his book to trace them as well as other books of that period I managed to get an approximate idea on where they came from, they were by the way exiles from Byzantium.
My research found they came from an area north of Bulgaria and west of the Carpathians which is rouphly where modern Hungary is. According to other books as well as Yaquts muslims were a significant minority in that area and were kicked by continuous wars and took refuge first in Byzantium and then in Islamic territories.
My question to our friends from the Bulkans, did primary sources of that era ever mentions their presence? I read something about that in Wikipedia but I wish to know more.
Thank you
Al-Jassas
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Replies:
Posted By: Beylerbeyi
Date Posted: 20-Feb-2009 at 17:33
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Which century is this? My guess is that they would most likely to be Kipchaks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchaks - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchaks ------------- |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2009 at 10:14
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I know about Kipchaks. So Arab sources (they are still called by their old Arab names Qifjaq).
No these people are from what is now Hungaryand the Balkans.
Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2009 at 10:33
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Al-Jassas, this Wikipedia page says what you look for, I think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6sz%C3%B6rm%C3%A9ny - Böszörmény -------------  |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2009 at 13:45
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Hello to you all
Thanks Menu.
AL-Jassas
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 18:06
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How would this group connect with Bessarabia? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 03:48
The name Bessarabia has other origin, as I already told you. The name Bessarabia (Basarabia in Romanian) derives from the Wallachian Basarab dynasty, who allegedly ruled over the southern part of the area in the 14th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessarabia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessarabia The dynasty was named after Basarab I, who gained the independence of Wallachia from the Kingdom of Hungary. Basarab I's name was originally Basarabai and lost the ending -a when it was borrowed into Romanian. The name is of Cuman or Pecheneg origin and most likely meant "father ruler". Basar was the present participle of the verb "to rule", derivatives attested in both old and modern Kypchak languages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basarab_dynasty - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basarab_dynasty The Turks from today Bessarabia (Republic of Moldavia and Ukraine), as well as the Tatars, are not older than 13th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz_people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gagauz_people The Muslims who this topic is about have came in the kingdom of Hungary in 10-12th century and have not known connection with the territory of Bessarabia. ------------- |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 28-May-2010 at 05:55
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I read somewhere that King Sweyn once toyed with Islam. Maybe even embraced it for a while. No? ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 30-May-2010 at 17:13
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The entire thred relies totally upon "what was the religion of the area?"
Does any one know? If so, just what is your sorce? They could just as well be members of a different religious sect, like the Arians/Aryans, etc.? Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Gun Powder Ma
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2010 at 18:16
| There were no Muslims in central Europe in any number until after WW II. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2010 at 12:59
I agree and most did not arrive into even the Balkans until the Ottoman period. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2010 at 13:26
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The words "in any number" are very important. Just what or who decides "any number?" Is it 5,000 or 20,000 or 200,000+, etc.?
And, I think that many people have differing opinions as to just what constituted "Central Europe!" Does central Europe began with Austria, The East Germany, Poland, Chezko-Slavakia, Romania, etc.? Or does it began further East? Just how far South is Central Europe? Does it cover the Balkans and Greece? Southern France and even Switzerland are suspected to have the remains of Muslim settlers still existing in small pockets today! Of course they are no longer Muslim, if indeed many of the so called Moors or Saracens might have been? Just a few words! I am enjoying the content of the above posts! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2010 at 14:00
The only exception that I can think of is Eastern Poland and the Crimean Tartars. A certain number of locals seemed to have identified as a Polish / Ukrainian Christian or a Tatar Muslim depending on which Empire was winning. In the end, the Christians won and several hundred thousand Tatars were gradually assimilated as Polish Christians. A small number kept their ethnic idenitity and religion.
Even if true, this does not change the fact that Muslims do not have a true historical presence in central Europe.
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