Origin Of The Hyksos
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26538
Printed Date: 27-Apr-2024 at 15:30
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Topic: Origin Of The Hyksos
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Subject: Origin Of The Hyksos
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 10:49
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Were they from the Mesopotamia or Aegean as some of these indecisive references claim? And why do people say they took over the Egyptian Kingdom when they only ruled over Lower Egypt? |
Replies:
Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 13:24
| I always thought they were Libyans |
Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 13:24
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No idea on the first count, but on the second the lower kingdom was a separate kingdom anyway. When they were joined they were known as the 'two kingdoms' and the pharaoh has dual sovereignty symbols. ------------- |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 16:18
The pharaoh always employed the royal officals to worship his Gods . Citizens in different cities may have been allowed to worship different gods but they always had to reconize the Pharoahs God as being Prime Diety.Through the dynastic periods the Main god would be Atum Ra most of the time . Others have adopted other gods from the pantheon through the ages. From the Hieroglyphs they appear to be lighter with semitic or Indo European orgin.    Its possible they Libyans I know the Psmatik kings were of Libyan of orgin,but if they were Libyan the Egyptians would of subdued the neighboring upsurption after they ousted them out. The text say the Hyksos came from pastoral background. So i'm assuming Semitic. But from where exactly.They must've a known them because when they intailly encountered them they were wasn't any discrepancy,and if they were from Libya what kingdom existed there prior to the event. |
Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 16:52
| Bear in mind that Northern Africa was much more fertile in antiquity than it is now. The Yksos could just be pastoral nomads of the African coast. Ancestors of berbers perhaps. Though coming from Middle East is also possible. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 18:03
The only Fertile Lands that are dry today are the Tigris and Euphrates, it would of been near impossible for the Libyans to actually build a settlement there. Thats why Egypt became very appealing to foreigners,I am not aware of Libya being more fertile in ancient times. Do you know of any ancient Libyan cities? |
Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 18:13
| I am certain about the areas of Algeria, Moroco etc, not sure about Libya but I guess it was fertile. Why would Greek colonisi Cyrenaica if it was desert? |
Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2009 at 23:45
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The hykso rulers were titled "pharaoh of lower egypt". The hykso Pharaoh Apophis, whom reigned for more than 40 years, was the greatest of these pharaohs. ------------- The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2009 at 04:07
Right how were they exactly able to administer power over Lower Egypt and not take it over all Egypt as a whole? I know this might be due to friction between the priesthood of Memphis and Thebes. Its a wonder why other empires such as the Hittites didn't take advantage of this situation. |
Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2009 at 02:57
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The Hittites had begun to overextend themselves, they couldnt have invaded. ------------- The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. |
Posted By: beorna
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2009 at 08:05
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All we know about them before they ruled Lower Egypt is their name. Heka hesut, what mean the chiefs of the strangers. So it is not the name for the invading populations but for their leaders. They came from the North, what we can translate as from the later Asia Minor or Mesopotamia. We shouldn't expect the Hyksos as an homogene population. Probably they were a conglomerate of indo-european, semitic, caucasian or other ethnical groups.
We can't say more about it.
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Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2009 at 13:25
Presumably because it was easier to invade and conquer Lower, rather than Upper Egypt. Which I suppose is pretty good evidence they didn't come from the south. ------------- |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2009 at 13:45
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hyksos brought wheel and chariot technology in Egypt? If that was so, they most logically came from Asia, since the above mentioned technology innovations first appeared in Sumer. ------------- Σαυρομάτης 
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Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2009 at 14:57
The spoked wheel was always in use in Egypt,it just wasn't viable in all terrains much likely reason it didn't work well on sand. However the WAR chariot technology in Mesopotamia gave the Egyptians a new idea on what to do with the wheel and traveling carraige But the wheel as with the Sailing ship was invented in Egypt. The Hyksos were probably the Midanites ,Edomites,or Amalikites since they dwelled in aregion bordering Egypt. The Hyksos had a relationship established when they entered Egypt and had a relationship with them for least 3 dynastic periods. They were portrayed as herdering bedoins and this is not to much a Indo European custom. |
Posted By: ITAPEVI56
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2009 at 23:03
| OK |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 00:43
Actually the wheel was developed in Sumeria. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 01:55
archeologist say it was invented in 8000 years but it shows up Sumerian tablets and so it is concluded that the Sumerians invented the wheel some 5 millenia ago. |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 10:17
It's not based on depictions of the wheel. It's based on the fact that those who had the wheel put it to a variety of uses, some of which are easily detectable in the archaeological record - for instance, the use of wheels by potters. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2009 at 17:05
Well at least the invented the water wheel lol. Like I said even after it became in use the it could not be used as much as it was Mesopotamia because wheels were sluggish on the arid terrain. The Egyptians used the Nile and canals that ran across the Nile for transportation |
Posted By: Jallaludin Akbar
Date Posted: 11-Feb-2009 at 22:17
Yes well 5,000+ years ago Mesopotamia was not thought to be arid terrain..in fact it was a lush grassland that was ideal for the developement of early human civilization. In regards to the wheel..I beleive the first practical uses of it where in pottery. ------------- "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi 
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Posted By: Boreasi
Date Posted: 11-Feb-2009 at 22:29
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Ships - with oars and evidently with sails - was spread by the Minoans. The oldest chariots found - so far - seem to be from the Kurgan area. ------------- Be good or be gone. |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 11-Feb-2009 at 22:43
Minoans were on an island, so obviously there were sea-worthy watercraft around before it was settled. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 11-Feb-2009 at 23:32
Exactly we know it was lush terrain, this is why the argument of saying the Mesopotamian cities were built out of scarcity and lack of agriculture is very much false. There's a reason why they call it the FERTILE CRESCENT,and with all the populous from different lands migrating at huge rate it is only natural for these populations to set up ever growing communities and large scale cities. Where as Egypt has alot of famine through their history but yet they maintained a vast amount food reserves at times. They Sumerian Cuneiform has gone though stages of refashioning to make the writing system better.Where as the Early Dynastic Hieroglyphs style of writing has not been changed at all. We also ignore great canal system which was great for travel and irragation.Where as the Sumerians have had alot of trial and error with some of their construction projects ,look how many time the ziggarut has been built over. It is clear to note that at the beggining of unification of Upper and Lower Egypt and the beggining of dynastic period their is a unexplained sudden burst of archietctual accomplishments such as the Aswan Dam. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 11-Feb-2009 at 23:50
Of course there were boats but we do not see any evidence of mass ship building as that of Egypt,they might of came there on canoes but not with LARGE SCALE SHIPS. Of course there people who could cross the sea to certain degree with minor canoes,example Paleo Early Americans and the Anui of Japan,but they didn't seafear with Vessels like the Egyptians.Even the Greek historians credit the Egyptians for innovating seafearing. So if Sumerians had a wheel used it for pottery but the Egyptians had a water wheel for irrigation who's to say who invented what.The Minoans more than likely had canoes rowed on the water but they did not posses sail ships. |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 01:47
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Minoans? Canoes? Boreasi is quite right that the Minoans were extremely advanced in shipbuilding etc. Their fleets dominated the Meditteranean a thousand years and more before the Phoenicians even became a seafaring peoples. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 02:31
I doubt that,if their fleets dominated Mediteranean . Actually Minoan and Myncean migration to the Island started from inland in Macedonia. They obviously did sea travel but did not engineer ships like the Egyptians. Like i said before there alot civilizations that bult boats before the 10000 bc Egyptians perfected ship building before any known of civilization.Here is some refrences to make it factual and clear. http://www.eternalegypt.org/EternalEgyptWebsiteWeb/HomeServlet?ee_website_action_key=action.display.module&story_id=&language_id=1&module_id=199&ee_messages=0001.flashrequired.text Mediterranean website http://www.egypt.strabon.org/cultnat/sc_gizaplateau/bateaux-Nil_en.html Heres another so we can get full spectrum http://www.answers.com/topic/shipbuilding |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 03:29
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I don't want to get too off-topic here, so I'll just say this: the Minoans aren't referred to as a thalossocracy because they had 'canoes'! |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 04:31
I just gave you proof, that advanced ship building and advanced sea travel were made by the Egyptians I didn't say they invented sea travel. Let me take back saying the traveled in canoes maybe they traveld in Longships or something similiar I don't know but their maritime ability was not as advanced as the Egyptians in 3000 bce. The Minoan and Mynecean civilization arrival is a bit of mystery and very opaque,who knows how their civlization worked. I really don't know to much scholars such as Rawilson, HG Wells or even Strabo telling their history in full detail. |
Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 08:37
I am from Crete (my village was actually built on a Minoan cemetery) and there is another village excavated that dates around 3,000bC. I can promise you that these people didn't sprout in Crete and they certainly wouldn't reach it without some form of advanced ship |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 09:02
| Well, this is all really fascinating, but I urge participants to return to the topic of the thread. This is veering too far off-topic. A discussion of ancient naval technology is better served as a topic of its own; anyone who wishes to continue that discussion may open a new thread and respond there. |
Posted By: Boreasi
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 12:37
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Some 4.200 years ago, after the Aryan invasion to India, there was civil unest that developed into a civil war in India. The stories of the Mahabaratha is the first known description of weapons made for manslaugther, as well as the first reord of actual warfare. The Aryan off-spring Krisna took a central part in the calamities, persuading Anjuna to us his bow for killing his and Krisnas political oponents - i.e. the old royals - to enforce the inroduction of a "new age". In the war that followed Krisna creates an arillery unit, were he himself steer two oxes that pulls a wagon - from which Anjuna can shoot his arrows effectively. It mighthave been the loosers of this war that had to flee the Indian area - to the west. Less than a century later a similar ox-barrow with spear-throwing invaders arrives in the Mesopotian realm. These Indo-Aryans can be seen in the "Standard of Ur" - that is depictng the "Asian soldiers" on wheels - during their invasion, sack and burning of the city of Ur. http://www.utexas.edu/courses/classicalarch/images1/UrStand2700.jpg - http://www.utexas.edu/courses/classicalarch/images1/UrStand2700.jpg The easy success seem to have geared their ambition and soon the same people continue their specific form of colonization nort- and west-wards - were new cities were besiegd, attacked and conquered. A trademark of the new rulers was to burn or tear down the monumental buildings of the conquered cities and build a new, fortified ones - at the highest hill of the cities. http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668§ionid=351020108 - http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668§ionid=351020108 By 3.700 they had overrun the Sumerian province and created a new kingdom of Sumeria - with the conquered Babylon as the new capitol. Later Persegard gets blasted and Persepolis get to be the new capitol - and the long march towards the Mediterranean, the Hittites and the Egyptians could start. http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668§ionid=351020108 - http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=5668§ionid=351020108 3.600 years ago the indo-aryan ship-trade had also advanced far west - along the coast as well as inland of Felix Arabia, it reaching Ertreya and Egypt. By this time they start to learn how to use a more advanced "cavallery" - of horses and chariots. (3.200 they advance to crush the Hittites and occupy the northern part of the Levant.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos 3.500 the (proto-)Phonecians gets to establish trade-routes from India and the Persia bay, along the Arabian coast to the main-routes to the Erytrean Sea, the Akka bay and Egyptian (Red) Sea. As the Hyskos arrived in Egypt the Phoencans were able to organize an attack on Egypt - together with their cousins of the land-road, called "Asian soldiers". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia Combining smart diplomacy and trade with infiltration and political play they were finally able to go for the regime ofthe Nile delta around 3.500 BP. In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_language - Egyptian they were called "heqa khasewet", i.e. "foreign rulers" - and their cavalery of charioteers called "haibrw". Co-ordinating attacks from the Red Sea and the Levant simultaniousy with the land-army with chariots - the Hyksos were able to roll into Egypt and conquer the temples of Heliopolis. Gaining controll over all the land east of the Nile they instigated their own dynasty of pharaoes - with Avaris as they capitol. The escaping Egyptians survived to "regroup" in "Upper Egypt" forming a new capitol in Thebe - untill they were strong enough to strike back and effectively figth the intruders. According to the stela in Medinet Habu the cavalerists of the Hyksos, the Hebrw, escaped Canaan by advancing over the Sinai dessrt and back to their former neighbours in the Levant. Here they managed to exterminate the Medianites in a veritable genocide. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2031:1-18;&version=9; - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2031:1-18;&version=9; After this divine effort the remaining Hyksos (i.e. Hebrew) were able to get join in a political union with their cousin Phonecians, from which the retaliation on Egypt were planned - as known in the attack of the Sea People, which is a final phase of the Troyan wars. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples As the Asyrians came to rule the old Sumer and Arabia and the Hebrews ruled the Levant - they controlled all the land-routes between the Med and India/China. With the control of the Red Sea, Suez, Tyre and Carthagethe the Phoenicians would solemnly rule the Mediteranean trade to the east/south-east, from where the famous ivory, clothes, colors, silk and spices would arrive. The sea-routes to Erytreia or Akaba - and then along the coast of Felix Arabia to Cambay and Punt - were the key-route to the Asian trade-cultures, that included India, Myanmar and China. The relationship between the first wars between the Indo-Aryans and the greek Sumerians - and the successive spread of war - was difficult to clearify before modern archaology were able to weigh in the evidences and the dates of the events that spread from the Pesian Bay to the Med during the 2. millenium BC. As the conquest advanced the size of the armies grew from a few thousand to hundred of thousands - leading to the destructon of the old cities of the Middle East. As the "Burnt cities" have been excavated and dated (from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranean) it has been possible to deduct a time-line of events, that may explain the how cultural extremity of warfare, devastation and genocide - came to search out and destroy most of the old civilisations between India to Spain in less than a millenia. http://%20www.nabataea.net/hyksos.html - http://www.nabataea.net/hyksos.html During the 1. millenia BC it spreads further into the mainlands of Anatoilia, Egypt, Libya, Greece, Italy and Spain - until the time of Alexander. Later the Romans picked up the "Alexandrian herritage" - as they learned to defend themselves effectily. Successfully doing so the plebeian generals advanced to political power, where they developed the policy to turn Rme into a metropois for a world wide empire. After the re-conquest of (punic) Libya they advanced on Spain, Geece, the Levant and Egypt - before the resources ran out. Solving it radically the marshall Caesar turned on Romes oldest (peaceful) allies - as he marched into the untouched resources of northern Europe - to "as a savage wolf drink the Gallic blood" (Cato). Thus the lawful defenders had turned criminal themselves and the history of agression, manslaughter and conquest. Idolizing the success of brute strength, predatory behaviour and millitary technoogy - manipulation, stigmatization and warfare became "crimeless" and comme il faut as a political tools. Thus the ideas and means of Maabaratha had spread as a wildfire - to reach the outermost realms of the known world. Thus the origin and history of the intruding Hyksos, along with their alied Phoenicians, can actually be followed back to India. Paradoxically they seem to have left alongside the rather peaceful Gypsies - close to 4.000 years ago - as a result of the civil wars between the Indo-Aryans... ------------- Be good or be gone. |
Posted By: Boreasi
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 13:21
 ------------- Be good or be gone. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2009 at 14:32
Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2009 at 08:47
Kind of ironic that the gigantic asteroid heading towards us, is named after him. ------------- The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 15-Feb-2009 at 01:45
Quite interesting but how are these Hyksos(Hebrew)able to maintain an identity in foreign lands. the nomadic and pastoral war like people you described reminded me of Hammurabi,its very imaginative to think they were able to reamain cloaked in the Levant region and impregnate other cultures after their expulsion. Greek Sumerians ,Indo Aryans alligned Gypsies.Didn't they appear in the next millenia.I posted something about the Indo Aryans taking the teachings of Zoroaster and the Vedic in another post.http: //www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=26510 Very Interesting nonetheless. |
Posted By: Boreasi
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 03:04
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Agree abut the dates beeing unclear. They still cant decide on what century Krisna appeared to get Ar-juna to start the "world conquest". Though the proxies are pretty consistent with each other... http://%20en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkad - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_Neo-Aramaic_language - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_Neo-Aramaic_language ------------- Be good or be gone. |