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Linking Koreans with Turks

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Archaeology & Anthropology
Forum Discription: Topics on archaeology and anthropology
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=244
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 01:27
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Topic: Linking Koreans with Turks
Posted By: demon
Subject: Linking Koreans with Turks
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 16:43

I know it seems like chance or luck, but look how similar both languages are:

Korean/Turk/English

Ane/An ne/Wife

Him/Shim/Power

Maul/Mahale/Village

songarak/garak/finger

abba(bb=p in spanish)/baba/father

dwitgan/ryookan/backyard

gan/khan/king

 



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Grrr..



Replies:
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 18:00
Yup Yup, Turkish is very similar to Korea...if you are interested in this, you should also look into Dravidian Langueges, also very similar to Korean...in grammar i believe

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Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 18:52
Arn't they both distant cousins in the Altaic (sp?) family?

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Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 21:25
Dravidian languadges also have alot in common with ancient Nubian languages oddly enough.

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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton


Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 15:55
Just goes to show we're all related.

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Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 16:18

Ane/An ne/Wife

In Turkic languages, Ana or Anne means "Mother".

Him/Shim/Power

Shim?  In Turkic, there are several words used for Power, incluiding Küch/Güch and Erk.

Maul/Mahale/Village

Mahalle is Arabic AFAIK and it doesn't mean "Village". Mahalle is the basic unit of towns/cities, it's a bit similar to Roman insulae (or several of them).

songarak/garak/finger

Finger is "Parmak".

abba(bb=p in spanish)/baba/father

Baba isn't Turkic at all, it's borrowed from IE languages I guess. Father is Ata or Qang in Old Turkic.

dwitgan/ryookan/backyard

Ryookan? Never heard that



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Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 19:42

In Turkic languages, Ana or Anne means "Mother".

I know, Just that I couldn't think the word at that time

And about the rest, I took it from language from that region.  I didn't know whether its actually turkic or not.  Sry.

EDIT:  WAIT, I think I looked "Sumerian Language".    I'll check.



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Grrr..


Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 20:26
If the whole sumer thing is true...you'll have evidence for the whole handangoi thing.

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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 20:36

Originally posted by Cywr

Arn't they both distant cousins in the Altaic (sp?) family?

May be.. Korean language is also linked to Indo-Europen languages. Nevertheless, Korean is considered "isolated" language by most linguists. It doesn't really belong to any language family. So, korean language is an orphant. Sorry, no cousins...

Altaic group includes:
1.Turkic languages
2. Mongolian languages
3. Tungus-Manchurian languages.

In overall there are about 65 languages in Altaic group.
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=709 - http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=709



Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 20:37
Korean is linked to Indo European?  how so...I know it's linked to Dravidian, but that's its own language group...Do you mean Persian?

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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 21:17

Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon

Korean is linked to Indo European?  how so...I know it's linked to Dravidian, but that's its own language group...Do you mean Persian?

Korean language hypotetically related to the five following language groups/languages:
1. Altaic
2. Dravidian
3. Japanese language
4. Indo-European
5. Austronesian (Polynesian)

I think Korean was linked to Indo-European group generally. I couldn't find anything about specific IE language being somehow related to Korean.

What else we can tell about Korean language?

There are 6 dialects of this language:
1. North-Eastern
2. North-Western
3. Central
4. South-Eastern
5. South Western
6. Dialect of Chejudo Island

Grammatically Korean is somewhat close to Japanese and Altaic languages.

About half of Korean vocabulary is of Chinese origins, even numbers and till "recently" (15th century) alphabet! I guess two thousand years of Chinese influence left such a strong mark on their language.

By the way, Chinese language was considered "cultural" language among koreans. Everything was in Chinese. Korean language itself was considered language of the poor and unfasionable. In 1443, korean king Sejon ordered development of Korean alphabet which was officially introduced in 1446 and called Hangyl and Chosongyl. Amazing how one person can change the fate of the whole nation!



Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 01:19
Lol very cool information

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Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 14:30

Grammatically Korean is somewhat close to Japanese and Altaic languages.

It's because Ancient Korean=Japanese.  I'll put some evidence when I make another thread.

In 1443, korean king Sejon ordered development of Korean alphabet which was officially introduced in 1446 and called Hangyl and Chosongyl.

He altered an ancient Old Choson language called Garimto, adding simpler alphabets to it.  In fact, his family was a group of reserachers of Garimto, and his Father, Yee Sung Ge, was one of them.  That's why when King Sejong came to power, he collected all historic books from Korea and made a sort of like University of books called jiphyonjon.

Korean language itself was considered language of the poor and unfasionable

It was the language of Women and farmers.  They, who couldn't afford to learn at least 1100 commonly used Chinese, were taught to read one of the easiest pronounced languages in the World by the name of Hangul(that's right, no irregular verbs). 

When Korean aristocrafts wanted to mail to their wives, they wrote in hangul.  Becasue it was easy to learn- like 2 hours and you start making phrases.

However, not until before Japanese colonization did Korean was official, and there were many variations to Korean.  There were also pronounciations for f, v, z, and stuff as well.



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Grrr..


Posted By: hansioux
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 21:42
In fact, there was a nation called ´ñ®ü°ê Bo-hai-guo (7th century to 9th century, the nation of bohai, which means the yellow sea) around that area which was purely Altaic.  The sad thing about being around that area back in those days is you can't escape the Chinese influence.


Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 23:28
Bohai....that's the Chinese pronounciation right?

In Korean it's Barhae...There's a lot of conterversy around that old kingdom. Koreans Claim it was founded by Koreans, The Russians say it was founded by Malgals, and since China is now claiming Koguryo, it'll probably be saying that Barhae is a chinese nation too...


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Posted By: hansioux
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 01:57
Well, personally I think the whole China South Corea's fight over Koguryo thing is just silly.  That is like argueing if Archaeopteryx is bird or reptile.  WHY WOULD IT MATTER!?  It is most likely both, and most likely neither.  Koguryo was thought by the Coreans as their ancestors.  But the land Koguryo occupied is situated in China.  And back in the days i bet they didn't really care if they are Chinese or Corean, they are probaly just Koguryean.  They were both influenced by the Chinese as much as the Coreans.  They had wars with the Chinese as well as the Coreans.  So what's the stupid argue about?  Just because the Turkish people today probably didn't build Troy.  Does it mean they can't apply Troy to the United nations for world heritage?  They leaders and people of both nation needs to grow up.  Why not apply it jointly? 


Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 19:34
No it doesn't mean that at all, and CHina does have the absolute right to list them as UNESCO Sites...
There are a few problems

1.  CHina tried to block North Koreas Application, they barely got it through
2.  The whole Unesco thing isn't important, what freaks out Koreans is the China is saying all of a sudden that Koguryo was a Subordinate territory of China...Whether you believe that Koguryo was Korean or CHinese, the above stated is a blatant lie...



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Posted By: hansioux
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2004 at 16:35

Believe me, to people who are brought up in PRC, every country next to China was a subordinate territory of China.  Why do you think they claim Taiwan?

But sometimes Asian histories can't be explained by the set of international views of today.  There is a reason why the leaders of the nations next to China don't call them self ¬Ó (emperor), just ¤ý (king).  To an certain degree, back in the days China did feel the responsibility of maintaining regional peace.  Otherwise China wouldn't have sent forces to help Corea for the 3 times that Japanese invaded Corea. 

I know people in Corea think Koguryo had a very bad relationships with China, because China invaded Koguryo during the Suei ¶¦ and Tang ­ð dynasty.  But that doesn't mean in the other times China and Koguryo had always been hostile towards each other. 



Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2004 at 17:04
Koguryo's foregin policy was expansion, it was basically a warrior state...so it wasn't really peaceful with anyone, and even if it was, it was likely to stab you in the back...
BTW I thought china only came to Korea's aid when Japan invaded Korea only once in 1592, when are the other times?






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Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2004 at 21:45

"Believe me, to people who are brought up in PRC, every country next to China was a subordinate territory of China.  Why do you think they claim Taiwan"

 

No they don't, the only territory they claim is taiwan, and thats a internationally legitimate claim, since the treaty of shimoseki is nullified by the end of world war.

 

 

"BTW I thought china only came to Korea's aid when Japan invaded Korea only once in 1592, when are the other times?"

 

Helping silla in defeating Yamato, helping chosun in fighting Meiji japan.



Posted By: hansioux
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 01:12

Warhead answered my question.

To Warhead,

Maybe you don't think so, but to me, Tibet and East Turkistan has never historically been an inseparable part of China.

Especially Tibet.  It has NEVER been a part of China until the invasion of the Chinese red army.

Also Inner mongolia although less disputed, but isn't historically a part of China either.  To best, China was a part of Mongolia.

And let's review to the Qing dynasty.

China had to sign a treaty to give Indo-China to the French.  Was Indo-China ever part of China?  Actually no.  Vietnam had its king, all the other countries had their leaders.  But to China, if they pay tribute to China, China had responsibility to help them. 

That is why when Ryukyu was invaded by the Japanese near the end of Qing dynasty, the king of Ryukyu wrote a letter asking for help to the Qing's court.

As I said, you can't use today's view on nationalism to view international situations back then.  Back in the days before European imperialism was introduced to Asia, things worked a little differently.

I mean if Zheng-He's fleet was an European fleet, with that amount of man power, could you imagine he just stop at each country and ask for trade and tribute?  It was just a different set of rules and view of the world back then.



Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 11:40
China never fought Yamato....they fought Koguryo and Baekje, but never yamato...and even if they did, that's still only twice

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Posted By: hansioux
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 13:05

First one happened in Tang Dynsaty 663, where Tang dynasty was supporting Silla.  That is after Baekje was already defeated.  Japanese emperor ¤Ñ´¼¤Ñ¬Ó (sorry... don't actually know how the Japnese prounced the kanji) sent 400 ships to reinsate the Baekje prince.  By doing so he wish to take control over Corea for the first time.  There was only 100 Tang ships, but the Japanese was defeated.  That started the whole Japnese coming to China to study thing.

Ming Dynasty ... that one... is pretty obvious.  Half of the Corean population died for that Janpanese invasion which lasted 8 years.  I am sure you didn't forget this one did you?

Qing dynasty helping chosun in fighting Meiji japan.  Yeah... that how Taiwan was given to the Japanese.

Corea has historically been really close with China, especially since Corea's unification.  I don't see the any reason why anyone would want to deney that.



Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 13:48
I'm not...I just didn't know the specifics and just wanted them to be clarified to me...I didn't know Tang fought Yamato...thanks for the info!

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