more updtaes,
it seems people inside the PRC take their news with a grain of salt more than the wishful thinkers from the outside
Chinese petitioners urge end to propaganda on Tibet
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/23/asia/china.php?page=1# - SHANGHAI :
A group of prominent Chinese intellectuals has circulated a petition
urging the government to stop what it has called a "one-sided"
propaganda campaign and initiate direct dialogue with the Dalai Lama.
The petition, which was signed by more than two dozen writers,
journalists and scholars, contains 12 recommendations which, taken
together, represent a sharp break from the Chinese government's
response to the wave of demonstrations that has swept Tibetan areas of
the country in recent days.
They come, moreover, at a time when the government is working hard
to convey a sense of strong international support for putting down what
is being depicted here as a civil disturbance by lawless people being
instigated by Tibet's spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, denounced by
Beijing as a secessionist, or "splittist."
The violence has turned into a public relations disaster for China
before the August Olympics, which it had been hoping to use to bolster
its international image.
Though the European Union and the United States have so far said
they opposed boycotting the Beijing Games over the crackdown, an EU
politician said in remarks published Saturday that European countries
should not rule out threatening a boycott if violence continued, The
Associated Press reported. "Beijing must decide itself, it should immediately negotiate with
the Dalai Lama," the European Parliament president, Hans-Gert
Pttering, was quoted as saying by Germany's Bild am Sonntag newspaper.
"If there continue to be no signals of compromise, I see boycott
measures as justified."
In recent days, the state-controlled Chinese press has also stepped
up its criticisms of the international press for what it says has been
biased and overblown coverage of the Tibetan crisis.
China has barred international journalists from Tibet and expelled
most tourists and other foreigners from the province since the
beginning of the crisis. As trouble has spread to neighboring provinces
where many Tibetans live, the government has blocked access to these
areas, as well.
"In our view the current news blockade cannot gain credit with the
Chinese people or the international community, and is harmful to the
credibility of the Chinese government," the petitioners wrote, adding,
"only by adopting an open attitude can we turn around the international
community's distrust of our government."
Given the government's stringent censorship of the media, including
the Internet, it is not clear how widely knowledge of the
intellectuals' letter will spread within China, but many of its points
challenge or dispute the government line head on.
"We support the Dalai Lama's appeal for peace, and hope that the
ethnic conflict can be dealt with according to the principles of good
will, peace and non-violence," it reads.
The petition goes on to cite government claims that the unrest was
"organized, premeditated and meticulously orchestrated by the Dalai
clique," and calls on Beijing to invite the United Nations Commission
on Human Rights to carry out an independent investigation of these
charges.
"In order to prevent similar incidents from happening in the future,
the government must abide by the freedom of religious belief and the
freedom of speech explicitly enshrined in the Chinese Constitution,
thereby allowing the Tibetan people fully to express their grievances
and hopes and permitting citizens of all nationalities to freely
criticize and make suggestions regarding the government's nationality
policies." http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/23/asia/china.php?page=1 -
|
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 08:12
Originally posted by tommy
dou your guys kknow there was slavery in old Tibet, those"peace loving" monks were slave holders in the days of old Tibet |
yeah and the Communists over in the PRC have a handle on that issue....
Police 'bust Chinese slave-ring'
Police in China have rescued 33 mentally disabled men who were
forced to work as slaves at a building site, Chinese media report.
The men were said to have been discovered in a filthy 30sq m (320sq ft)
room in Hulan, a city in the north-eastern province of Heilongjiang.
At least three people were detained, suspected of keeping the slaves.
College students reportedly saw a man jump to his death from a seventh-floor window, and raised the alarm.
Last year, one man was sentenced to death and 28 others were
jailed for their roles in a slave labour scandal involving hundreds of
people at brick factories in northern China.
Following that scandal, China announced a nationwide crackdown on enslavement and child labour.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7306426.stm -
Mass rescue of 'slaves' in China
More than 200 people, including 29 children, have
been rescued after working as "slaves" in brick kilns in central China,
state media reports.
Tens of thousands of police moved in on the kilns in Henan province, arresting 120 people, Xinhua news agency said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6752507.stm -
|
|
Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 26-Mar-2008 at 12:36
|
http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/11918924-1301497961.html - http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/11918924-1301497961.html
|
Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2008 at 03:05
"Majority Han Want Their Side
Of the Story to Be Heard"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120638214966859837.html - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120638214966859837.html
|
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2008 at 20:07
The Chinese government has its own agenda and frankly I do not trust them. The Tibet issue might be political but the Tibetans still want self-rule and freedom from the tyrannical hands of the Chinese Communist.
(FREE TIBET!!)
I recommned this book about China:
The threat is real
By Bill Gertz
web posted November 6, 2000
A fundamental lesson of the twentieth century is that democracies cannot coexist indefinitely with powerful and ambitious totalitarian regimes. Sooner or later the competing goals and ideologies bring conflict, whether hot war or cold, until one or the other side prevails. This central lesson must be learned before we can even begin to understand the China threat. Unfortunately, President Clinton and his advisers have proved to be slow learners.
Nazism and Soviet-style communism were the ideologies that guided the past century's dictatorships, and they were discredited only when their brutal regimes were destroyed at fearful cost in human life and material wealth. The great threat of the twenty-first century -- to the United States and the whole world -- is "socialism with Chinese characteristics," as the unrepentantly violent rulers in Beijing beguilingly call the theory and practice that oppress the 1.3 billion wretched inhabitants of the People's Republic of China.
This book is an examination of the recent history of the China threat and how it grew stronger through the misguided policies of the Clinton-Gore administration. While his predecessors in the Oval Office share the blame, the magnitude of the Clinton-Gore administration's missteps, fumbling, and outright appeasement is in a class by itself. The result has been that the United States has actually helped in the creation of a new superpower threat to world peace and stability in the decades to come.
While the China threat is not yet in the same league as that posed by the nuclear-armed Soviet Union during the Cold War, Beijing is a serious danger nonetheless. As a dictatorship with no regard for human life and no input from outside its small circle of Communist Party policymakers, it has repeatedly shown itself to be prone to miscalculations on a staggering scale -- miscalculations that have cost tens of millions of its own people's lives. In light of this record of massive blunders and the continuing insularity of its ruling clique, there exists the very real possibility that China's rulers could make the same kind of catastrophic miscalculation that Japan's dictators did in attacking Pearl Harbor. Serious internal problems -- widespread corruption, social unrest, and economic instability -- might combine with their longstanding ambition to dominate the Pacific region and tempt Beijing into the dictator's historic strategy: military aggression.
Another danger, somewhat ironically, is that China will collapse and fragment, Soviet-style. The country is not unified; it could easily break up into several nation-states. While this could eventually reduce the threat of a Chinese Communist superpower, it would throw into question the central government's control over a small but growing strategic nuclear arsenal.
The great unknowns about the almost opaque Chinese Communist system also hold many dangers. China is a "hard target" for American intelligence agencies, a euphemism meaning ignorance about the inner workings of the last remaining nuclear-armed Communist state. The danger in not knowing or understanding the true nature of Chinese communism, China's government, and its military poses the most serious internal threat to the United States today. Communist governments have never responded favorably to concessions; they pocket them and demand more. They do respond to pressure. But before pressure can be applied, a strategy is needed, and the crucial requirement for a strategy is solid intelligence.
Those who insist, ignorantly or deliberately, that China is not a threat put great faith in the supposedly democratizing effect of increased trade with the West. Unhappily, there is little evidence that the Beijing dictatorship has been undermined by such trade. The growth of prosperous coastal cities has not alleviated the poverty of rural China. The levers of power that keep the Party in control remain unchanged and unreformed. The permanent normal trade status granted to China in 2000 by Clinton and Congress will do little to liberate the Chinese people or lessen Beijing's threat to the West. To the contrary, the Clinton policy of conciliation has only increased the danger.
Perhaps the greatest failure of the Clinton appeasment policy was a moral one: its betrayal of the long-suffering Chinese people. Their true aspirations emerged with tragic results in the Tiananmen Square demonstrations. The protesters looked to the United States as the beacon of freedom and hope. We learned from survivors of the Soviet Empire that it was the United States, by its very existence, that kept their hopes of freedom alive. Thus, while the Beijing regime is a threat to the United States, our nation by its very existence is a threat to Beijing. Any strategy designed to counter the China threat must include persistent exploitation of America's status as a model of democracy and a symbol of hope for the oppressed Chinese people.
The frightful human toll of the Chinese Communist regime is almost beyond imagining, despite attempts by some academics and other apologists to ignore or minimize the slaughter. As long ago as 1971 in a study done for Congress, Professor Richard L. Walker, in "The Human Cost of Communism in China," noted that Beijing was responsible for the deaths of between 34.3 million and 63.8 million people. The figures can no longer be dismissed as those of a Cold War anticommunist. A 1999 estimate by European historian Jean-Louis Margolin confirms Walker's figures. Margolin stated that Chinese communism cost the lives of 44.5 million to 72 million people from repression, famine, executions, and forced labor.
Since the fall of Eastern European communism in 1989 and the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, China's rulers have survived by rejecting the central economic tenets of Marx, Lenin, and Mao Zedong. But they have kept Communism's brutal totalitarian structure so aptly captured in Mao's famous nostrum: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
The central question underlying the China threat is whether the Beijing regime, direct heirs of those who sacrificed so many millions of their countrymen at the altar of a false god, can be reformed by exposure to the civilizing influence of the West. Bill Clinton believed they could. His biggest mistake was to treat the Beijing government as just another foreign government, no different or worse than a noncommunist dictatorship. The problem is that China's patient communist rulers have a strategy that stretches over the next several decades. They rightly regard the United States as their main enemy and the primary obstacle to China's achievement of world status and Pacific domination.
Jiang Zemin and Bill Clinton in 1999
Bill Clinton was elected in 1992 as a critic of George Bush's friendly policies toward China, having lambasted Bush for "coddling" dictators from Baghdad to Beijing. But the new president soon became a key facilitator of China's march to world superpower status. China's human rights record was criticized, but only because polls showed it would gain political points. There was never a serious effort to bring about changes in Beijing's behavior. The idea of pressure -- using leverage to force changes -- was specifically rejected by the administration as counterproductive. The central theme of Clinton's policy was that China is a "normal," nonthreatening power. That is the same theme that has been advanced by China's Communist rulers from its first premier, Chou Enlai, to its current president, Jiang Zemin.
China's always pragmatic rulers know well that decisions made today by U.S. defense planners, under the mistaken notion that China poses no threat in the future, will prevent the United States from preparing for the challenge from China in the crucial decades up to 2030. Weapons systems being designed and researched today must anticipate the threats of tomorrow.
Business groups have played a key role in playing down the China threat. Their argument is that free trade will not only help China evolve peacefully, but will actually undermine the communist system. But the evidence from trade with Beijing over the last two decades shows that China today is less free and more threatening than it was before the United States established formal government-to-government relations in 1979. Free trade has not worked. A prosperous middle class in China is emerging, but there is no sign it will lead the government toward democratic reform.
The China threat is real and growing. The solution is not trade, but democracy. But as China's rulers have made clear, their current program of modernization leaves out democratic reform. Resolving the China threat will require patience and clear-headed strategy. It will require studying the People's Republic of China, understanding its strategy and tactics, and forming alliances with democratic states that share democratic values.
Most important of all, the United States must maintain and build up its military power, following the same strategy adopted by President Ronald Reagan that left the Soviet Union in ruins: Peace through strength.
Bill Gertz is the author of China Threat: How the People's Republic of China Targets America which was released on November 1. This article is an excerpt from that book and was printed here courtesy of the National Book Network.
Buy this book at Amazon.com for $22.36 (20 per cent off)
Other related articles: (open in a new window)
You don't need to know by Charles Bloomer (March 13, 2000)
Panama Canal: China's gateway to Mexico? by Peter Zhang (February 18, 2000)
Shilling for Bill at Stanford by Lewis J. Goldberg (January 3, 2000)
Will Lord Keynes cripple China's military? by Peter Zhang (November 1, 1999)
China and Taiwan -- Two be or not two be by Diane Alden (August 16, 1999)
U.S. Foreign Policy Is Foreign to Reason by Michael R. Allen (December
-------------
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 02:35
Originally posted by eaglecap
The Chinese government has its own agenda and frankly I do not trust them. The Tibet issue might be political but the Tibetans still want self-rule and freedom from the tyrannical hands of the Chinese Communist.
(FREE TIBET!!)
I recommned this book about China:
The threat is real
By Bill Gertz
web posted November 6, 2000
A fundamental lesson of the twentieth century is that democracies cannot coexist indefinitely with powerful and ambitious totalitarian regimes. Sooner or later the competing goals and ideologies bring conflict, whether hot war or cold, until one or the other side prevails. This central lesson must be learned before we can even begin to understand the China threat. Unfortunately, President Clinton and his advisers have proved to be slow learners.
Nazism and Soviet-style communism were the ideologies that guided the past century's dictatorships, and they were discredited only when their brutal regimes were destroyed at fearful cost in human life and material wealth. The great threat of the twenty-first century -- to the United States and the whole world -- is "socialism with Chinese characteristics," as the unrepentantly violent rulers in Beijing beguilingly call the theory and practice that oppress the 1.3 billion wretched inhabitants of the People's Republic of China.
This book is an examination of the recent history of the China threat and how it grew stronger through the misguided policies of the Clinton-Gore administration. While his predecessors in the Oval Office share the blame, the magnitude of the Clinton-Gore administration's missteps, fumbling, and outright appeasement is in a class by itself. The result has been that the United States has actually helped in the creation of a new superpower threat to world peace and stability in the decades to come.
While the China threat is not yet in the same league as that posed by the nuclear-armed Soviet Union during the Cold War, Beijing is a serious danger nonetheless. As a dictatorship with no regard for human life and no input from outside its small circle of Communist Party policymakers, it has repeatedly shown itself to be prone to miscalculations on a staggering scale -- miscalculations that have cost tens of millions of its own people's lives. In light of this record of massive blunders and the continuing insularity of its ruling clique, there exists the very real possibility that China's rulers could make the same kind of catastrophic miscalculation that Japan's dictators did in attacking Pearl Harbor. Serious internal problems -- widespread corruption, social unrest, and economic instability -- might combine with their longstanding ambition to dominate the Pacific region and tempt Beijing into the dictator's historic strategy: military aggression.
Another danger, somewhat ironically, is that China will collapse and fragment, Soviet-style. The country is not unified; it could easily break up into several nation-states. While this could eventually reduce the threat of a Chinese Communist superpower, it would throw into question the central government's control over a small but growing strategic nuclear arsenal.
The great unknowns about the almost opaque Chinese Communist system also hold many dangers. China is a "hard target" for American intelligence agencies, a euphemism meaning ignorance about the inner workings of the last remaining nuclear-armed Communist state. The danger in not knowing or understanding the true nature of Chinese communism, China's government, and its military poses the most serious internal threat to the United States today. Communist governments have never responded favorably to concessions; they pocket them and demand more. They do respond to pressure. But before pressure can be applied, a strategy is needed, and the crucial requirement for a strategy is solid intelligence.
Those who insist, ignorantly or deliberately, that China is not a threat put great faith in the supposedly democratizing effect of increased trade with the West. Unhappily, there is little evidence that the Beijing dictatorship has been undermined by such trade. The growth of prosperous coastal cities has not alleviated the poverty of rural China. The levers of power that keep the Party in control remain unchanged and unreformed. The permanent normal trade status granted to China in 2000 by Clinton and Congress will do little to liberate the Chinese people or lessen Beijing's threat to the West. To the contrary, the Clinton policy of conciliation has only increased the danger.
Perhaps the greatest failure of the Clinton appeasment policy was a moral one: its betrayal of the long-suffering Chinese people. Their true aspirations emerged with tragic results in the Tiananmen Square demonstrations. The protesters looked to the United States as the beacon of freedom and hope. We learned from survivors of the Soviet Empire that it was the United States, by its very existence, that kept their hopes of freedom alive. Thus, while the Beijing regime is a threat to the United States, our nation by its very existence is a threat to Beijing. Any strategy designed to counter the China threat must include persistent exploitation of America's status as a model of democracy and a symbol of hope for the oppressed Chinese people.
The frightful human toll of the Chinese Communist regime is almost beyond imagining, despite attempts by some academics and other apologists to ignore or minimize the slaughter. As long ago as 1971 in a study done for Congress, Professor Richard L. Walker, in "The Human Cost of Communism in China," noted that Beijing was responsible for the deaths of between 34.3 million and 63.8 million people. The figures can no longer be dismissed as those of a Cold War anticommunist. A 1999 estimate by European historian Jean-Louis Margolin confirms Walker's figures. Margolin stated that Chinese communism cost the lives of 44.5 million to 72 million people from repression, famine, executions, and forced labor.
Since the fall of Eastern European communism in 1989 and the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, China's rulers have survived by rejecting the central economic tenets of Marx, Lenin, and Mao Zedong. But they have kept Communism's brutal totalitarian structure so aptly captured in Mao's famous nostrum: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
The central question underlying the China threat is whether the Beijing regime, direct heirs of those who sacrificed so many millions of their countrymen at the altar of a false god, can be reformed by exposure to the civilizing influence of the West. Bill Clinton believed they could. His biggest mistake was to treat the Beijing government as just another foreign government, no different or worse than a noncommunist dictatorship. The problem is that China's patient communist rulers have a strategy that stretches over the next several decades. They rightly regard the United States as their main enemy and the primary obstacle to China's achievement of world status and Pacific domination.
Jiang Zemin and Bill Clinton in 1999
Bill Clinton was elected in 1992 as a critic of George Bush's friendly policies toward China, having lambasted Bush for "coddling" dictators from Baghdad to Beijing. But the new president soon became a key facilitator of China's march to world superpower status. China's human rights record was criticized, but only because polls showed it would gain political points. There was never a serious effort to bring about changes in Beijing's behavior. The idea of pressure -- using leverage to force changes -- was specifically rejected by the administration as counterproductive. The central theme of Clinton's policy was that China is a "normal," nonthreatening power. That is the same theme that has been advanced by China's Communist rulers from its first premier, Chou Enlai, to its current president, Jiang Zemin.
China's always pragmatic rulers know well that decisions made today by U.S. defense planners, under the mistaken notion that China poses no threat in the future, will prevent the United States from preparing for the challenge from China in the crucial decades up to 2030. Weapons systems being designed and researched today must anticipate the threats of tomorrow.
Business groups have played a key role in playing down the China threat. Their argument is that free trade will not only help China evolve peacefully, but will actually undermine the communist system. But the evidence from trade with Beijing over the last two decades shows that China today is less free and more threatening than it was before the United States established formal government-to-government relations in 1979. Free trade has not worked. A prosperous middle class in China is emerging, but there is no sign it will lead the government toward democratic reform.
The China threat is real and growing. The solution is not trade, but democracy. But as China's rulers have made clear, their current program of modernization leaves out democratic reform. Resolving the China threat will require patience and clear-headed strategy. It will require studying the People's Republic of China, understanding its strategy and tactics, and forming alliances with democratic states that share democratic values.
Most important of all, the United States must maintain and build up its military power, following the same strategy adopted by President Ronald Reagan that left the Soviet Union in ruins: Peace through strength.
Bill Gertz is the author of China Threat: How the People's Republic of China Targets America which was released on November 1. This article is an excerpt from that book and was printed here courtesy of the National Book Network.
Buy this book at Amazon.com for $22.36 (20 per cent off)
Other related articles: (open in a new window)
You don't need to know by Charles Bloomer (March 13, 2000)
Panama Canal: China's gateway to Mexico? by Peter Zhang (February 18, 2000)
Shilling for Bill at Stanford by Lewis J. Goldberg (January 3, 2000)
Will Lord Keynes cripple China's military? by Peter Zhang (November 1, 1999)
China and Taiwan -- Two be or not two be by Diane Alden (August 16, 1999)
U.S. Foreign Policy Is Foreign to Reason by Michael R. Allen (December |
Its no secret that "free Tibet" is more or less associated with "China threat".
but unlike others, this is honest and straightforward acknowlegement.
btw, just as one could get books on "China threat" from Amazon.com, one could also get books on "American imperialism" from it.
For instance Noam Chomsky's
Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance (The American Empire Project)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805074007?tag=commondreams-20/ref=nosim/ - http://www.amazon.com/dp/0805074007?tag=commondreams-20/ref=nosim/
which Venezuela's president Hugo Chavez cited and recommended at the U.N. General Assembly in 2006.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092000893.html - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092000893.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0920-22.htm - http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0920-22.htm
then there is "The Power of Nightmares" to be recommended
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Nightmares-Adam-Curtis/dp/B000ZI3G30/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1206839777&sr=8-1 - http://www.amazon.com/Power-Nightmares-Adam-Curtis/dp/B000ZI3G30/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1206839777&sr=8-1
and those arent "China's agendas".
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Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 03:54
Originally posted by eaglecap
The Chinese government has its own agenda and frankly I do not trust them. The Tibet issue might be political but the Tibetans still want self-rule and freedom from the tyrannical hands of the Chinese Communist.
(FREE TIBET!!)
|
in all honesty Bill gertz is hardly a balanced source, please don't bring him into the Tibet issue.
|
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 04:31
while some have been wining that the 'Han' are not getting a fair showing of their side of the story. i have yet to see this, we all know about the rioting, burning and looting of Han ethnics. What they really mean is that the Han side should never be talked about in context to the Tibetan issue. or that there is no other Tibetan view that is both valid and contrary to their own.
In the PRC the only media attention was on the handful of Han deaths, or western bias but nothing that addresses the Tibetan POV or anything that would come close to criticizing or debating the very policies that have created this problem. Should we be surprised that many Han including the effected colonist are confused and angry with this riot? if we only believe without question the proscribed story, sponsored by Beijing and its media and external Han nationalist then there should be no dialog or debate. According to them, everything is good, the Tibetans are happy and now modernized and richer than ever and of course Tibet is a part of China (always was right?) end of story. 'Its the Dalia Lama's fault not us' , 'everyone is bias against the Han', boo hoo the real victim
here is an example of how the PRC makes sure a 'balanced' view is made in regards to the ethnic dimension of the riots
In life, the five young women who burned to death in a Chinese
clothing store during rioting in Tibet on March 14 were not the types
who would make headlines.
One had received permission from her family to follow her fianc to
Lhasa; another sent home most of her wages to support 13 relatives;
several sent text messages in the minutes before they died, warning
loved ones to stay indoors as violence erupted.
In death, though, the women are being treated as martyrs. The
Chinese government has been using their deaths to support its version
of what happened on "3/14," when Tibet experienced its worst day of
violence in 20 years. In that version, broadcast by state-controlled
media, ethnic Tibetans took to Lhasa's streets, unprovoked, burning and
looting shops that were owned by Han Chinese.
This week, Meng Jianzhu, head of the Ministry of Public Security,
used his visit to the burned-out store to drive home the government's
message: that the rioting was instigated by supporters of the Dalai
Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, who denies encouraging violence.
"The government will lead people of all ethnicities to smash the
Dalai clique's intentional and secret effort to separate the motherland
and undermine Tibet's harmony and stability," he said after bowing
before the victims' portraits and laying a wreath. But the women's story, like that of the violence that erupted in
Tibet and neighboring regions, is more complex than the government
suggests.
Four of the women were Han Chinese. The fifth was an ethnic Tibetan,
Cirenzhuoga, 21, who supported her relatives. The government, which has
spoken often of innocent Chinese victims, mentioned only in passing
that she was Tibetan. Her family is as angry as the others at the
protesters.
And the riots that claimed their lives did not happen in a vacuum.
Some Tibetans who have been able to communicate with the outside
world say that in the days before March 14, they heard that monks
protesting China's hold on Tibet had been arrested, maybe even killed.
Many Tibetans also say the crackdown that followed the riots has left
more than 140 dead and perhaps as many as 1,000 ethnic Tibetans jailed.
Western journalists have not been able to verify either version of
events because reporters have been banned from traveling on their own
to the sites of violence. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/28/asia/tibet.php -
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Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 04:48
what freedom of speech would look like In PRC's Tibet. Glad they couldnt control the whole sham of this media tour
Reuters: Monks disrupt China's Media Tour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AS-4i7P43U&feature=related - www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AS-4i7P43U&feature=related
BBC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBUygCUtPdU&feature=related - www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBUygCUtPdU&feature=related
without the reporter voice you can hear their emotion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBd8eEanaio&feature=related -
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 05:50
Originally posted by Leonidas
everyone is bias against the Han', boo hoo the real victim |
sure, and the racist behaviours of Australia's white miners against ethnic Chinese miners during Australia's "gold rush" era was only "few drunkards got high".
boo hoo the real "balanced" voice,
besides, Han are not the only victim during the riot, there were also Tibetans and Hui,
Originally posted by Leonidas
Reuters: Monks disrupt China's Media Tour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AS-4i7P43U&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AS-4i7P43U&feature=related - www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AS-4i7P43U&feature=related
|
http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/11918924-1301497961.html - http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/11918924-1301497961.html
in this video one can also hear a Tibetan girl who emotionally denounced the violence by Tibetan rioters when they burned the shop where she worked which caused the death of 5 girls including one Tibetan girl who were her friends and colleagues.
"I want to say this to those criminals, why would you kill so many innocent people!?"
one can also hear Tibetan residents of Lhasa denounce the violence.
A 6 years old Han Chinese boy was attacked by Tibetan rioters, they stepped on his chest causing him to suffocate, when the ambulance arrived a Tibetan doctor was attacked by the rioters while he was trying to rescue that boy despite he told them "we are medics".
the picture that the action of those monks in front of reuters which would be utilized to illustrate is conflicting with the action of those Tibetans who denounce the violence which would be utilized to illustrate different pictures.
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 06:53
Originally posted by Leonidas
these are Han colonist with a foreign language and culture and I'm certain they don't bother earn the language of the Tibetan nation. Soon enough the Tibetans will be a minority in their own land, so how does that not make them repressed. |
reminiscent of the experience of aboriginal people in Australia.
except the Aboriginal people are already a minority in their own land.
im certain majority Australian citizens and PR dont bother to learn the language of the aboriginal people, since English is the official language.
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Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 10:10
Originally posted by The Charioteer
Originally posted by Leonidas
everyone is bias against the Han', boo hoo the real victim |
sure, and the racist behaviours of Australia's white miners
against ethnic Chinese miners during Australia's "gold rush" era was
only "few drunkards got high".
boo hoo the real "balanced" voice,
besides, Han are not the only victim during the riot, there were also Tibetans and Hui, |
*yawn* so sad to see the same re-hashed lines screaming racism- oh yeah any one heard about some racism in Australia, white australia policy, the gold mines?.. oh so much to write yet nothing to do with Tibet. Guess who's got one massive 'white' chip on their shoulder...
.. what other people in my country have done make no difference to what is happening in Tibet. It is so pathetic to use other wrongs as some kind of defence (attack) over new wrongs. Han can be racist too, and guess what? your most probably one of them.
People, as far as Charioteer is concerned no Australian can talk about minority rights because of our past! it doesn't matter if your against those same wrongs or that your own ancestors were in another land. So convenient, i guess he cant talk about aboriginal rights either .... We can close down the forum because really no one can talk, if you think about it.
Originally posted by The Charioteer
Originally posted by Leonidas
these are Han colonist with a
foreign language and culture and I'm certain they don't bother earn the
language of the Tibetan nation. Soon enough the Tibetans will be a
minority in their own land, so how does that not make them repressed. |
reminiscent of the experience of aboriginal people in Australia.
except the Aboriginal people are already a minority in their own land.
im certain majority Australian citizens and PR dont bother to
learn the language of the aboriginal people, since English is the
official language. |
 fantastic and this has what to do about tibet?
Lets start counting posts that Charioteer creates, without providing a thoughtful opinion on the topic (that is without the 'you are' type stuff) or by simply bringing up completely unrelated topics as points of argument. I see 5 and counting
BTW - there is no one 'aboriginal language' there are like 400 of them, thought you would of known that since you seem to be so genuinely interested in their cause. I am glad to see you bothered to learn how to spell aboriginal i guess your putting in some more effort in your pointless posts.
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 11:20
Originally posted by Leonidas
*yawn* so sad to see the same re-hashed lines screaming racism- oh yeah any one heard about some racism in Australia, white australia policy, the gold mines?.. oh so much to write yet nothing to do with Tibet. Guess who's got one massive 'white' chip on their shoulder...
.. what other people in my country have done make no difference to what is happening in Tibet. It is so pathetic to use other wrongs as some kind of defence (attack) over new wrongs. Han can be racist too, and guess what? your most probably one of them.
People, as far as Charioteer is concerned no Australian can talk about minority rights because of our past! it doesn't matter if your against those same wrongs or that your own ancestors were in another land. So convenient, i guess he cant talk about aboriginal rights either .... We can close down the forum because really no one can talk, if you think about it |
my point was you are "simplifying" the "Tibet issue" just as you would "simplify" that piece of history.
to you i guess its only "few drunkards got high", but some authors would write a whole book on that history. they are more "thoughtful" on it.
Originally posted by Leonidas
Lets start counting posts that Charioteer creates, without providing a thoughtful opinion on the topic (that is without the 'you are' type stuff) or by simply bringing up completely unrelated topics as points of argument. |
whether thoughtful or not is not really judged by you, there are people who support your perspective, there are people who dont.
Originally posted by Leonidas
I am glad to see you bothered to learn how to spell aboriginal i guess your putting in some more effort in your pointless posts. |
"oboriginal", instead of the letter A which would symbolize importance they are more like 0 in the eyes of the designers of "stolen generation", a wrong approach which characterize the past policies towards them until Kevin Rudd's formal apology, i was hoping you would point that spelling error out in that thread so i can point this thought out, but instead you are retarded enough to bring this here in this thread to make attack on me.
Originally posted by Leonidas
Han can be racist too, and guess what? your most probably one of them. |
nice come back, i guess you would substantiate that im such?
speaking of "thoughtful posts" and related to the "Tibet issue"
i would like to recommend another book from Amazon.com
The CIA's Secret War in Tibet
http://www.amazon.com/CIAs-Secret-War-Tibet/dp/0700611592 - http://www.amazon.com/CIAs-Secret-War-Tibet/dp/0700611592
" Defiance against Chinese oppression has been a defining characteristic of Tibetan life for more than four decades, symbolized most visibly by the much revered Dalai Lama. But the story of Tibetan resistance weaves a far richer tapestry than anyone might have imagined.
Kenneth Conboy and James Morrison reveal how America's Central Intelligence Agency encouraged Tibet's revolt against China--and eventually came to control its fledgling resistance movement. They provide the first comprehensive, as well as most compelling account of this little known agency enterprise.
The CIA's Secret War in Tibet takes readers from training camps in the Colorado Rockies to the scene of clandestine operations in the Himalayas, chronicling the agency's help in securing the Dalai Lama's safe passage to India and subsequent initiation of one of the most remote covert campaigns of the Cold War. Conboy and Morrison provide previously unreported details about secret missions undertaken in extraordinarily harsh conditions. Their book greatly expands on previous memoirs by CIA officials by putting virtually every major agency participant on record with details of clandestine operations. It also calls as witnesses the people who managed and fought in the program--including Tibetan and Nepalese agents, Indian intelligence officers, and even mission aircrews.
Conboy and Morrison take pains to tell the story from all perspectives, particularly that of the former Tibetan guerrillas, many of whom have gone on record here for the first time. The authors also tell how Tibet led America and India to become secret partners over the course of several presidential administrations and cite dozens of Indian and Tibetan intelligence documents directly related to these covert operations.
As the movement for Tibetan liberation continues to attract international support, Tibet's status remains a contentious issue in both Washington and Beijing. This book takes readers inside a covert war fought with Tibetan blood and U.S. sponsorship and allows us to better understand the true nature of that controversy. "
trust me Leonidas, the book offers more "thoughtful" sentences and "facts" than you, and its all just about the Tibet "controversy".
one might need to incorporate such dimension into the "Tibet issue" in ones "thoughtful" posts,
because what you are doing is simply "Defiance against Chinese oppression"
But "the story of Tibetan resistance weaves a far richer tapestry than anyone might have imagined"
until then, I have nothing "thoughtful" to contribute for now.
P.S. "Han can be racist too, and guess what? your most probably one of them"
Its alright if one would consider such infamous racist incident in Australia's history as "few drunkards got high" hence downplay its racist nature, but instead attacking and accusing the person who point out its racist nature as "racist" without any substance is something only retarded redneck would do. |
Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 16:12
Originally posted by Leonidas
in all honesty Bill gertz is hardly a balanced source, please don't bring him into the Tibet issue. |
The American involvement in the "Tibet issue" or "Tibet controversy" is irrefutable, such post only tend to reveal that fact.
Tibet, the 'great game' and the CIA
By Richard M Bennett
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JC26Ad02.html - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JC26Ad02.html
P.S.two other articles on "Tibet issue"
India wakes to a Tibetan headache
By M K Bhadrakumar
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JC18Df01.html - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JC18Df01.html
Tibet, China and the West: Back to stereotypes
By Kent Ewing
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JC28Ad01.html - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JC28Ad01.html
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2008 at 18:18
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Foreigners in Tibet: Western media reports not conform with facts
http://english.china.com/zh_cn/news/china/11020307/20080325/14746546.html - http://english.china.com/zh_cn/news/china/11020307/20080325/14746546.html
Tony Gleason said, "No, violence is not ok, I think it's terrible."
http://english.sina.com/1/2008/0324/151734.html - http://english.sina.com/1/2008/0324/151734.html
Originally posted by The Charioteer
http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/11918924-1301497961.html - http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/11918924-1301497961.html |
English version:
http://english.sina.com/china/1/2008/0321/151336.html - http://english.sina.com/china/1/2008/0321/151336.html
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where did you get that from? the Sun?
completely agree
welcome back, and a quality post
