Is Indian literature weak?
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: History of the South Asian subcontinent
Forum Discription: The Indian sub-continent and South Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22838
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 03:40
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Topic: Is Indian literature weak?
Posted By: anum
Subject: Is Indian literature weak?
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 04:54
| I have rarely come across qoutes or proverbs from sanskrit or other lanaguages in the indian subcontinent (except urdu because urdu has a lot persian influence). |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 06:55
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? ANd I repeat myself
?
Pushto has a lot "something which is round and is sour is undoubtedly a grapefruit".
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Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 08:01
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Sanskrit is a dead language but here is a controversial quote from it: "I have become death, the shatterer of worlds" which is thousands of years old but was resurrected and immortalized by a German last century. |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 13:51
I second that. Pretty much every language in the sub-continent has a lot of proverbs. Look harder. ------------- Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly |
Posted By: anum
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 22:06
| well i tried to find it on the internet about indian literature but they had mostly urdu literature which is mostly borrowed from persian and arabic. I couldn't find a lot on actual ancient indian literature. |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2007 at 14:15
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Well, wikipedia has a lot on various Indian literary traditions. You can search for literature in Sanskrit, Pali, Tamil, Bangla, Hindi, Marathi, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, Gujarati, Punjabi and many more. It's a good place to start.
------------- Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly |
Posted By: anum
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2007 at 16:31
| ^ I am not saying they dont have literature, i am saying is it weak? and thats why its not popular. |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2007 at 17:23
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Popular amongst whom? It's popular in India. I'm reminded of a quote by a British colonialist about how after supposedly having spoken to scholars of Indian languages he was convinced that Western literature was inherently superior and more rational, and that at best, all of the wisdom of the subcontinent would barely fill up one shelf in a library of Western literature. ------------- Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2007 at 20:16
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And in the 19th century, he would have been right. ------------- |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2007 at 16:41
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I disagree. The quantity of surviving writing was definitely less than in Europe or China, but the "inherently superior and more rational" stuff was colonialist BS.
------------- Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly |
Posted By: arze
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2009 at 22:08
| Sanskrit was acutally invented in present day northern Pakistan, thats why it so closely related to avestan. |
Posted By: Copperknickers
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2009 at 18:23
| The only reason it is not well known is that most of it is either oral and never written down, or has not been translated into European languages yet. That especially goes for the Dravidian languages, but there is also a lot of Sanskrit that was displaced, not written, destroyed or simply ignored by the Europeans after the 200 year reign of the Mughals who did not really care for preserving what came before them. There was never a 'rennaissance' in India when classical texts were rediscovered, translated and commentated on like the European one, but we are gradually translating the Puranas and Brahmanic writings slowly. |
Posted By: TranHungDao
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 10:11
You mean this guy?  Actually, he's Jewish American. Here's his http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Oppenheimer - As for Indian lit, there's three big ones I know of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata - - |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 10:18
One of the most famous of Pashtu is "You have watches, but we have time!"
It was used in 19th cent. while the campaign of Britians, again in 1970s and 80s during Soviet and now again it's regularly used against Nato and Americans.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 10:51
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Indian literature weak? I don't think so. If anything, I believe the problem for the western reader to reach Indian literature is the complexity of it and the lack of context we have to read it.
Most Indian literature is embedded in a religious context of extraordinary complexity, that we simply don't understand.
No matter that, some Indian tales (such the fable about "the sky is falling") and texts like the Bagabadgita, are well known in the west.
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Posted By: TranHungDao
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 10:58
| Sorry, but I forgot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjN_q8feoa4 - |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 14:48
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And it definately wasn't a universal sentiment ... there were alot of people in Europe absolutely fascinated with Indian literature and philosophy, eg Arthur Schopenauer |
Posted By: AksumVanguard
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 19:44
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Inida has given rise to at least 2 major world religions and has contributed a vast amount of literature. It is said that Vedic math was studied a whole lot in the anicent world. |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 20:21
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Didn't Hesse also use lots of Indian symbolics in his works, creating into them a level of deep understanding?
I wouldn't call the literature weak - it's not the amount that matters, it's the depth. ------------- |
Posted By: hmmm
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 23:18
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This is a rather interesting discussion. For the benefit of members I did a brief count and came up with the following numbers regarding ancient Indian literature (it does not include ancient classical literature, which is also ancient but not part of this list): Vedas - 4 Upnishads - 108 Dharmashastrs - over 100 Itihas - 5 (this list includes Ramayan and Mahabharat also) Purans - over 15 Sutras - over 10 This is an incomplete list, neither official nor final, but it gives between 200-300 works which can be classified as ancient India literature. If we add couple of hundred more from say Agams and Dharshan then the count goes up quite a bit. I will agree with pinguin here when he write - "Most Indian literature is embedded in a religious context..." Yes, most of them are religious but also carry works which can now be classifed as Philosophy, Geography, History etc. Weak or strong is a value judement. If one is able to read them then only weak or strong can be assigned to them. Nowadays, a lot of translation is available online if anybody is interested. But there is a quicker way to decide if all this ancient Indian literature is strong or weak. Bundle all these works together and drop them on somebody's head from a little height. If the skull breaks then the literature is strong else not, at least for that person.
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Posted By: Jallaludin Akbar
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2009 at 23:25
hehe thats pretty cool  what are the 5 "itihas"? ------------- "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi 
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Posted By: rcscwc
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2009 at 07:02
Reason is that you do not know about them. In Sanskrit they are called Subhashit, nice or wise words.
In English: To KILL two birds with one stone.
In Indian languages: One trip, two tasks (accomplished).
An old, old satire on physicians. O physician, you go ahead of Yama (Lord of death). He takes life only, but you take wealth too.
google for subhashit or "sanskrit subhashit".
Take a topic and there is a saying.
Caution: Since sayings are always influenced and shaped by the culture of origin, sometimes the wisdom, humor, satire etc. maybe lost to someone not aquainted with culture AND the whole spirit may be lost in translation.
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Posted By: rcscwc
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2009 at 07:21
| Fire , debt, enemityy, if remain even in small trace will grow again, so finish them completely. |
Posted By: Sander
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2009 at 21:51
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That looks more like a prakrit language, instead of Sanskrit.
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 04-Jan-2010 at 15:16
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I happen to believe that there exist no good or relevant literature nor factual background to date most any period in the historical periods of India compared to areas to the West!
But, of course, I could be wrong? Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2010 at 13:03
| I think its the overexposure of other forms of literature rather than a weakness. For example Egyptian literature is very good, but we focus on Greek more. Doesn't make one worse than the other. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 19-Jan-2010 at 18:07
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Actually I believe that Indian literature is mis-dated! It is much younger than now considered! Maybe Alexander had something to do with it? Or even the Dutch or the Mohammedans?
Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 08:27
| ^ what do you mean? and its muslims |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 21-Jan-2010 at 14:10
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I know little about Indian literature but I know Will Durant wrote a whole section about it in Our Oriental Heritage but it was published in 1935 so can I trust him as a unbiased Orientalist? I have his first three volumes which the college library discarded. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 21-Jan-2010 at 14:37
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Just why is it "muslims?", with a small 'm'? Please give me your sources? Maybe I just mispelled the word?
Oh, maybe I should have mentioned the Portugese? You know, literature goes both ways! "I have his first three volumes which the college library discarded." Yes "Eagle", it is strange that a repository of knowledge would discard works that they have been told, or that they merely consider as outdated, or completely wrong! It seems to me to be a pattern that may be designed to eliminate rererences which someone, somewhere has deemed as "not worthy!" History is being "rewritten" all of the time! And it may well be for an ulterior purpose? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2010 at 12:34
I have not read that book fully but I read his book "The Life of Greece" and when it comes to the clasical period he is good but the Bronze Age- his theories are laregly outdated. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2010 at 08:22
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Patanjali who lived in 2nd century BC has mentioned in his mahabhasya that Rigveda has 21 shakhas( or branches ), Yajur has 101 shakhas , Sama has 1000 shakhas and Atharva has 9 shakhas.Totaling around 1131 shakas or branches.Each shakha has its own Samhita,Brahmanam,Aaranyakam,Upanishad apart from this Sroutha sutra,Gruhya sutra,Dharmasutra,Praathisakhyam,Niruktam likewise 13 granthas(or collection of manuscripts). That will give us a 17500 +/- Granthas in 200BC. But as pinguin said all these are religious. Many are peotic and many are prose. Apart from this there was many other books/manuscripts in mathematics,Astronomy,predictive astrology based on astronomy like Bhrigu samhita,on atheism & logical living by charvaka. Most of this books were lost during the destruction & burning of Nalanda university by Baktiar Khalji the General of Kuthbuddin Aibak
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2010 at 14:38
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In reality, there is little real evidence that "Indian" literature is much older than the Middle Ages!
Which is, in my humble opinion, just exactly where these works should be! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2010 at 22:45
| I respect your views ,but in the case of eveidences I am afraid it is not so. |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2010 at 22:27
| Apart from the sanskrit literature which is mentioned here, a lot of literary works are available in India in different languages like Marathi,Bengali,Tamil,Urdu,Kannada,Malayalam,telughu,Gujarathi,Oriya,Bhojpuri and many others |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2010 at 22:27
| Sangam literature of Tamil is very famous and is dated back to pre-classical period |
Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 18-Dec-2010 at 11:29
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Urdu is much stronger language then Hindi, Urdus combination of arabic, farsi and hindi really created an amazing language with huge amounts of poetry and litrature, the modern so called hindi songs are 90% urdu, yet the credit is always given to hindi, it is unfortunate today the urdu language is systmatically being destroyed by hindu nationalistics in India |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 19-Dec-2010 at 22:52
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Urdu literature is still strong in India.Most of the universities in India offers Phd courses in Urdu. Even the Hindu centred former BJP government's Prime minister A.B.Vajpayee writes poems and literary works in Urdu.
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Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 19-Dec-2010 at 23:06
| ^ thats funny, yet they hate muslims and always ignore the muslim contribution in india |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 19-Dec-2010 at 23:20
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There is no hatred between religions in India. India has a vast population and there are of course some frictions between communities at different pockets due to various reasons ie polotical,monitory and others.But as such there is no hatred between communities.
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Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 19-Dec-2010 at 23:23
| ^ there is huge hatred, espeically among the nationlistic sector. Muslims have become the poorest people in india, they are discriminated on every level. I heard south india, where you are from, things are better, but i am talking about north, which is where much of these nationalistic people live |
Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2010 at 02:09
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Your information is wrong.But i dont think that I can convince you against your beliefs through one or two posts in this forum. The poorest of all indian states are Orissa,Jharkhand,Bihar,Madhyapradesh,Chattisgadh and West Bengal.Out of these only Bihar and Bengal has remarkable muslim population.And poorest of all indians are the large tribal population of the North Eastern states.Muslims of India are there in almost all levels of society.Muslims in India enjoy all constitutional rights that Hindus,christians, Sikhs and others enjoy.
Ya your concept about south indian muslims are true.Majority of South Indians including muslims are educated and are in well to do condition. There are several muslim leaders in the most nationalistic party of India ie the BJP, like Muktar Abbas Naqvi & Shanavas Hussain.There are several muslim beauroctats in Indian civil service.And APJ Abdul Kalam a south indian muslim had even became the president of India. In India the terms "nationalism/secularism/communalism" etc are part of its politics and it has much less to do with peoples day to day life. |
Posted By: Jinit
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 00:51
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Panchtantra - a collection of Indian classic fables is among the best known stories in the world. Along with the Bible it was one of the first book printed in the guttenberg press of Germany. Some quotes on the book. To quote Edgerton (1924)
The novelist Doris Lessing notes in her introduction to Ramsay Wood's 1980 "retelling" of the first two of the five Panchatantra books, that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchtantra - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchtantra Apart from that there are many other points and facts to disapprove the OP but I think this alone is sufficient example. |
Posted By: Jinit
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 00:59
in case you aren't aware, just few years ago a Muslim was elected as president of India by the same Hindu nationalists. He was among the most popular president the India ever had. Apart from that there are many Muslims who are at impotanat post both in millitary and in goverment. not to mention the many muslim celebrities like cricketers and film stars
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Posted By: Jinit
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 01:05
An ordinary person who doesn't know either Hindi or Urdu can not differantiate between the two languages at all. They are almost same. What Hindu nationalists are doing is that they are replacing the farsi and arabic words of Hindi with the Sankritized words, just like the people in Pakistan have replaced the sanskritized words with farsi and arabic words.
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Posted By: pdtoler
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 09:36
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India has a vast range of literature, from the Vedas on. Even if you don't recognize the value of the literature itself, it's impossible to deny its impact on world literature. Stories from the Panchatantra, which someone mentioned above, appear in Western works from Aesop to the Decameron. Sanskrit plays, particularly Kalidasa's Sakuntala, influenced the Romantic poets. The American Transcendentalists were big fans of Hindu literature. Good places to start are Michael Coulson's translations of Sanskrit plays and Edward Dimock's translations of Bengali poetry. |
Posted By: TITAN_
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2013 at 04:39
Aesop's tales are older actually. In fact, even the Rig Veda was an oral tradition and was not written down (=attested) before 300 BC. I have a number of official sources confirming that. So, in the ancient times, Indian literature did not influence Western.... More like vice versa. The Greeks got to India back in the 4th century BC, not the other way around. ------------- αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν Een aristevin “Ever to Excel“ From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC). Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others. |
Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2013 at 22:40
but the question is who actually wrote these literatures? for example Rig Vedas, even though it is considered Indian now was actually written by outsiders (aryans) who probably came from central asia. Even much of the work done in middle ages (Islamic) times were done by outsiders, mostly persians, afghans, central asians (mughals). Even Sanskrit has outside origins, because proto Sanskrit is thought to have been spoken in central asia and afghanistan I think OP is asking is there any native Indian literature? to my mind, the true native indian literature would be the sangam Tamil/Dravidian literature, though I am not sure how strong that is |
Posted By: Jinit
Date Posted: 26-Mar-2013 at 00:09
If we go by your argument than everything written in English language isn't the part of the native British literature at all as the English language has its origins outside the Britain.  Second The Indian literature means the literature produced on the Indian subcontinent (and in the Republic of India after 1947). It doesn't matter in which language it is written. The works of Ravindranath tagore are the part of Indian literature. They aren't the part of British literature just because he wrote in English. One can say that his works are part of English literature (English as language not as nationality) but one can't say that his works aren't the part of Indian literature. Same can be said for the persian and urdu works written by the Indians like Amir Khusrow, Mirza galib, Iqbal etc And even if for the sack of the argument we accept that Sanskrit isn't indian language, than also the Vedas, Upnishadas, Indian Epics, Sanskrit dramas, puranas, Panchtantra, Hitopdesh, Buddhist and JAin literatures all are still the part of Indian literature as they were written by Indians.
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Posted By: Bharata
Date Posted: 26-Mar-2013 at 02:25
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vijayanagara_literature - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vijayanagara_literature And this is only from one empire :D
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