A load of Spanish immigrants telling a load of German+ immigrants to go back to Europe. Aah the finer points of the Fascist mentality...Precious.

 

First, that is not a movement of "Latinos" but of some Chicanos and Mexican Americans. They are not immigrants! Try to find out about the difference between Chicano and Mexican.

 

The origin of those ideas have an historical root. A long time ago, a country called United States invaded another country called Mexico and kept half Mexican territories in its hands. Some extremist groups, particularly Chicanos, call for a final return of Aztlan to its legitimate owners.

 

To tell the true, most Latinos in the U.S. don't care about that, including Mexicans. Chicanos are Americans and not Latinos and not Mexicans, as you may know. You shouldn't confusse the ideology of La Raza, or the Hispanic American identity with this political movement of some American minorities.

 

Here is the history of the Mecha: "Chicano students Movement of Aztlan"

 

 

MEChA ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language - Spanish : Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztl�n, "Chicano Student Movement of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztl%C3%A1n - Aztl�n ) is an organization that seeks to promote Chicano unity and empowerment through education and political action. The acronym of the organization's name is the Spanish word mecha, which means "fuse." The motto of MEChA is La Uni�n Hace La Fuerza ("Unity Creates Strength").

 

MEChA began during the 1960's, empowered through the political movements of the time, especially through the civil rights and black power movements. The group coalesced out of several organizations which had formed during that turbulent decade and all came together at the conference in Denver. The Denver, Colorado-based Crusade for Justice, a civil rights and educational organization founded in the mid-60s, concerned itself with the problems of the city's Chicano youth. One of the founding documents, El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan was drafted during this conference. This document reflects the sentiment of the Latino/Chicano youth during an era of a turbulent social climate (especially after all of the violence the Latino youth faced by the US military and police during the zoot suit roits).

The Mexican American Youth Organization was founded in San Antonio, Texas, in 1967, and employed the tactics of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and later spurred the creation of the controversial La Raza Unida Party.

The Brown Berets were a youth organization that militated against police brutality in East Los Angeles. In 1968, they helped the United Mexican American Students (UMAS), Sal Castro, and other youth who met at the Piranya Cafe organize the East L.A. walkouts, called the Blowouts, a series of protests against unfair conditions in Los Angeles schools.

Following the Blowouts, a group of students, school administrators, and teachers formed the Chicano Coordinating Committee on Higher Education (CCCHE), a network to pressure the adoption and expansion of equal opportunity programs in California's colleges.

Rene Nu�ez, an activist from San Diego, conceived a conference to unify the student groups under the auspices of the CCCHE.

In April 1969, Chicano college students held a nationwide conference at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Many of the attendees were present at the First National Chicano Youth Liberation Conference hosted by Rodolfo "Corky" Gonzales's Crusade for Justice a month prior, and the Santa Barbara conference represented the extension of the Chicano Youth Movement into the realm of higher education.

The name "Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztl�n" was already in use by a few groups, and the name was adopted by the conference attendees because of the importance of each of the words and as a means of transcending the regional nature of the multiple campus-based groups. Conference attendees also set the national agenda and drafted the Plan de Santa Barbara, a pedagogic manifesto.

MEChA chapters first took root on California college campuses and then expanded to high schools and schools in other states. It soon became one of the primary Mexican-American organizations, hosting functions, developing community leaders, and politically pressuring educational institutions. MEChA was fundamental in the adoption of Chicano Studies programs and departments in academia.

MEChA is also spelled as MEXA in certain areas as a claim to deeper indigenous roots having to do with the Nahuatl pronunciation of "x" as "ch". This then changes the word "Chicano" to "Xicano".

 

 

 

 

. I saw both videos. I loved these phrases:

 

"We are indigenous, the only owners of this continent"

"Go back to Europe, this is not your land" "Go back to England"

 

However, you shouldn't forget the facts. Mexicans are also in the U.S. army and they have died for your country in Irak

 

Do you know that an the wife of a Latino immigrant that died in Irak and that received condecorations was deported by the U.S. government?

 

We know quite a lot about the racist attitude the U.S. government and certain certain white americans have had against Mexicans, and most Latinos don't agree with that at all.

 

You, Americans, should learn to live with Mexicans and Latinos in general. Otherwise, listen, you better move to Europe.

 

Mexicans don't have gringo, they are just reaction to the hate they receive daily in the paradyse.

 

Read this and come back:

 

"Immigrant soldiers killed during duty recieve little respect in that their family members can be deported"

 

http://www.hispanictips.com/2007/10/03/immigrant-soldiers-killed-during-duty-recieve-little-respect-that-their-family-members-deported/ - http://www.hispanictips.com/2007/10/03/immigrant-soldiers-killed-during-duty-recieve-little-respect-that-their-family-members-deported/

 

 

Some Mexicans in Iraq:

 

IRAQ WAR

Known GI's of Mexican Descent Killed, MIAs and POWs

As of End of War

KILLED

Cpl. Jose A. Garibay, age 21, 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment Orange, California Killed in action near Nasiriya on March 23, 2003 Cpl. Garibay was born in Jalisco, Mexico.

Cpl. Jorge A. Gonzales, age 20, 1st Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment Los Angeles, California Killed in action near Nasiriya on March 23, 2003

Cpl. Jesus Alberto Suarez de Solar, age 20, 1st Expeditionary Force, Camp Pendleton, was killed in heavy fighting near Nasiriyah. Cpl. Suarez was born in Tijuana, Mexico.

Private First Class Lori Ann Piestewa, 23 year old Hopi/Mexican of Tuba City, AZ was officially declared dead on April 5th, 2003. She was 1 of 9 American bodies found at the Nasiriyah hospital after US soldiers rescued Pfc Jessica Lynch. Pfc Piestewa became the 1st female soldier to be killed in the Iraq War. She was a single mom of 2 children, a 4 yr old son and 3 yr old daughter.

Pfc. Francisco A. Martinez Flores, age 20, of Los Angeles; Francisco Martinez Flores was assigned to the 1st Marine Division, Marine Corps Air-Ground Combat Center, based at Twenty-Nine Palms, Calif. He was killed near Nasiriyah on March 25, when the tank he was in traveled over a collapsing bridge and tumbled into the Euphrates River. Martinez's mother, Martha, confirmed the news to reporters Monday, saying she hopes others might be spared her pain. "I just want them to stop it, for all the suffering mothers," she said in Spanish. "All of these young people have no need to die in this unending battle." Pfc. Flores was an immigrant from Mexico.

Marine Capt. Aaron J. Contreras, age 31. Capt. Contreras was assigned to the Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 169, Marine Aircraft Group 39, which is headquartered in the Marine Corps Air Station at Camp Pendleton, California. Aaron was very religious, and believed in his church," said the father, Edward Contreras. Capt. Contreras' father, said Aaron - one of five brothers - was born in San Jose, California. Early reports are saying that Capt. Contrera's Blackhawk helicopter may have been shot down by "friendly fire".

Pfc. Ruben Estrella-Soto, age 18, 507th Maintenance Company, of El Paso, Texas. Pfc. Ruben Estrella-Soto was first listed as missing but his body was identified as one of eleven soldiers found dead during a POW rescue operation. "He had a lot of desire to do something with his life, and he wanted to go into the military so he could get an education," said Ruben Soto Sr. "He wanted to study engineering." He played football at Mountain View High School.

Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, age 35, 507th Maintenance, Company Pecos, Texas. Johnny Villareal Mata was first listed as missing but his body was identified as one of eleven soldiers found dead during a POW rescue operation. Johnny Villareal Mata played for the Pecos High School Eagles football team and graduated in 1986.

Cpl. Erik H. Silva, age 22, of Chula Vista, California was killed on April 3rd. He was assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines, 1st Marine Division, which is based at Camp Pendleton, California.

Pfc. Juan G. Garza Jr., 20 years old, from San Benito,Texas, 1st Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, fc Garza was killed April 8 in an attack at the Baghdad Airport, "He was shot in the chest," his mother, Mary Ann Garza said "He died instantly."

Cpl. Jesus Antonio Medellin, 21 years old, from Fort Worth Texas, 3rd Assault Amphibian Battalion, 1st Marine Division. Cpl Medellin was killed April 7 when enemy fire struck the amphibious assault vehicle he was driving.

Sgt. Duane R. Rios, 25 years old , Sgt Rios was assigned to the 1st Combat Engineer Battalion, 1st Marine Division, based at Camp Pendleton. He was killed April 4 during a firefight in central Iraq.

Sgt. Fernando Padilla-Ramirez, 26, of Yuma, Arizona, was assigned to Marine Wing Support Squadron-371, Marine Wing Support Group-37, Marine Corps Air Station, Yuma, Arizona. He was last seen conducting convoy operations in the vicinity of Al Nasiriyah on 28 March. His mother, Lorenza Padilla, told the Associated Press that the family is "thinking the worst." Padilla-Ramirez, who was born in Mexico just south of San Luis, is married and has a 5-year-old son in addition to the newborn he welcomed just before heading overseas. "We haven't heard anything," sister-in-law Christina Padilla said Sunday. "We're just waiting for news." He has been in the Marine Corps more than five years, Christina said. Sgt. Padilla-Ramirez has now been reported as killed on March 28, 2003. His remains were identified on April 10. Padilla-Ramirez was born in San Luis Rio Colorado, Mexico, across the border from San Luis but was naturalized two years ago.

Cpl. Jesus A. Gonzalez, 22, of Indio, Calif., was killed on April 12 while manning a checkpoint in Baghdad. He was assigned to 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, Twentynine Palms, Calif.

1st Lt. Osbaldo Orozco, 26, was killed when his Bradley fighting vehicle rolled over as his Army unit rushed to help others under attack near Tikrit. He attended California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, on a full football scholarship. A member of Cal Poly's ROTC program, Orozco thought the Army would be good training for someday joining the Central Intelligence Agency or the FBI. He earned his commission on the same day he got his diploma in 2001. Seven days later, he moved across the country to Fort Hood, Texas, where Orozco joined the 1st Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment and began training as a Bradley commander.

Sgt. Edward John Anguiano, age 24, US Army 3rd Infantry Combat Support Battalion based in Fort Stewart, Georgia. Sgt. Anguiano is from Los Fresnos, Texas, in "El Valle de Tejas". Anguiano was formerly listed as "Missing in Action" but his remains were identified through DNA testing and is now officially listed as a casualty.

MISSING IN ACTION - Presumed Dead

REMAINS HAVE BEEN OFFICIALLY IDENTIFIED-now listed as a casualty(Sgt. Edward John Anguiano, age 24, US Army 3rd Infantry Combat Support Battalion based in Fort Stewart, Georgia. Sgt. Anguiano is from Los Fresnos, Texas, in "El Valle de Tejas". He is missing in action. The whereabouts of the 24-year-old serviceman have not been known since his convoy was ambushed March 23. "It is so difficult," Anguiano�s mother said, surrounded by family members. "It is devastating, but I don�t want to lose hope.")

POW's

Spc. Edgar Hernandez was RELEASED on Sunday April 13, 2003.

Spc. Edgar Hernandez, age 21, from Mission, Texas, is listed as captured. The supply specialist's mother, 53-year-old Maria De La Luz Hernandez, held her son's picture in front of her as she talked to television reporters in Mission. "It is very hard," she said in Spanish. "He is strong, because he has a lot of faith."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So we see Aztlan is a fantasy to believe they had ruled this land for hundreds of years in my opinion..

 

Well, there is a fact that stand and that those lands belonged legally to Mexico at the times the American pioneers started to settled in there. That fact is undeniable, but it is not different of many similar events in the Americas and elsewhere. Since the beginning of the 19th centuries several wars were fought across the hemisphere, and the frontiers moved. I think is unrealistic to prettend now to move the frontiers back again.

 

Now, Mexico, a westernized state, inherit those lands that now belong to the U.S. from the Spanish crown, an European superpower of its time, and not from the Amerindians of the South West. That's a hard fact that contradicts the claims of Aztlan. There was never an Aztlan state to begin with. Even more, Aztec civilization only controlled the central valley of Mexico.

 

So, I agree with you in that there is a lot of fantasy in the Aztlan movement.

 

But now, what are the Chicanos and Mexican immigrants in general, really asking for? I bet the answer to that is more simpler: they are looking for equality and being treated like the human beings they are.

 

The U.S. has lived a long time giving its back to Mexico. Forgetting its neighbour of the south except when produces some problems. I believe it is time to improve the relations with that country and that will help not only Mexico but the U.S. as well.

 

Come on. Mexico and the U.S. will be neighbours for the foreseable future. The population of the U.S. itself is growing more Mexican day by day. It is common sense to be in good terms between both countries.

 

The construction of walls and massive deportations don't contribute much to the piece in the U.S., and it is not practical either. Hispanics will flex theirs political muscle in the next election and I could bet the candidates that are though against Mexican immigrants will be surprised.

 

In fact, what the Aztlan people is against is people like the minutemen. This is theirs enemy and not the American people.

 

Minutemen pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See the adds:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

The news in here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/24/illegal-immigrant-saves-9_n_73940.html - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/24/illegal-immigrant-saves-9_n_73940.html

 

 

 

Well, there you have the answer. The Aztlan movement is also a VERY small minority between the Hispanics in the U.S.

 

 

when we are extinct the land will still be there not caring who owned it.

The ants think they are the masters.

These are very base concerns and very petty.

Food, clean water, shelter and fulfilment are the tools of live, this should be the sole focus,

In any case, I agree immigration can be a problem. I wish my own government get a little bit thougher on immigration comming from our "brother" countries around us.

 

Yes, it is a hard topic and we should not avoid to discuss it.

 

If there is anything more important than that i fail to see it.

Flags and land claims are a tiresome menace, the happyness of peoples lives is the greater stake than the fates of nations, long live the king of bhutan.

 

Amen, fellow. Let's hope that dream one day comes true.

 

Remember Lennon:

 

"I know I am a dreamer, but I am not the only one"

 

John Lennon

 

 

 

 

Mexicans marching for.... Mexico. We all remember those protests in LA 2 years ago.

 

Trying to make the minutemen seem all racist by posting those pictures i see, those nazi flags are not what they usually march with.

 

 

The people believe the american people are being sold out to big corporations so they can continue to have cheap labor, and I do believe they have a point.

 

But people always want this to turn into a race issue, and if you are against illegal immigration, than you must be racist (since this country allows people to claim others are racist for almost anything now a days)

 

 

Co-sign!

 

That's precisely how I see things.

 

The Mexican immigration is fueled by relative lack of opportunities back home. Well, Mexico is not THAT poor, and if it were located in a place like South East Asia or Africa, perhaps could be considered a rich country. But that's not the case living right besides with one of the most developed countries in the world. The difference between the low class, and poor, Mexican and the Middle Class American is astronomical. That's what drives immigration to the United States.

 

I bet a more realistic approach would be investing in Mexico so that country can absorve the labour of the poor, and that way stop a little bit immigration.

 

In the long term, Mexico will have to stop emigration as a matter of survival. It could be sound ridiculous but projections exist that predict that if Mexico allows this same rate of immigrantion much longer, it will start to become depopulated!

 

In short, this topic has many sides.

Looking at those Aztlan nazis and looking at those US neo-nazis make me wonder. Who would win a fight?

 

It was then I had an epiphany. First their was boxing, next came cage fighting. How about Nazi Pit fighting? You get Nazis from groups all around the world, put them in a pit and let them slug it out. And put in on Pay-Per-View. I'd watch.

 

Imagine it.... In the first fight we have the Ku Klux Klan fighting those loons from Sweden who think they're Vikings. Then Aztlans vs The Orange county Skins. The Russian Nazis could fight those Japanese who want the Samurai days back. The Afrikaner Resistance Movement could fight the British Royal family. Mossad could take on Mel Gibson. And in the main event, Pinguin will fight the forum staff.

 

 

 

Yes, it is very sad that after "Americans" settled in Mexican lands, suddendy the Indian population dropped quite fast.

 

 

I bet it was just a coincidence. Or perhaps the bacterias that carried the "Americans" were stronger than the ones carried by average Mexicans and Spaniards. There must exist some scientific theory that explains it.

 

Yes, history is amazing and very instructive... And one can easily read between lines.

 

 

 

Strange that. The Mexican government put a bounty on Indian scalps decades before the Americans thought of it. Then again the Indians had such a low opinion of the Mexican's fighting ability. They also detested the Mexicans more than the Americans and many supported the Americans in the Mexican American war.

 

 

 

Those are the contradictions of history. In my country, during the Independence wars, many Mapuches fought at the side of the King of Spain!

 

I bet many Chicanos are also Minutemen .

 

north america is so huge and comparitivly under populated, there must be enough space for everybody

 

But that doesn't mean there is lot of room to put people.  In Central America and the Caribbean, people is overcrowded like in Europe or Asia. In Canada, for instance, the only livable part of the country are from the frontier with the U.S. up to 100 kms north. 

 

In North America and South America there is plenty of room, but that's only an ilussion. In the Americas, in general, the only place where to put new people are cities, because the countryside has owners and the national reserves are to protect flora and fauna and not to put refugees.

 

And cities are overcrowded already.

 

Another fact. In the past people in the Americas received immigrants with a happy face. Today they are seen as a nuisance everywhere. There have been attacks to illegal immigrants not only in the U.S. but also in South America.

 

 

I think amnesty and freindlier attitudes, are key to this problem, if you take britain, population 60 million, it would easily fit many times in california, many times in texas is slightly smaller than oregon, would fit in most states, america has room and so does mexico.

I think you were right in what you said before, ie mexico is not a poor country, but america is a rich neighbor, but i think its largely a problem of the knuckle dragging less evolved members of society, this whole thing stinks of bigotry, if it was canadians entering america there would be less of a problem i think, and that is appalling.

 

Even more, such groups like the "Council of La Raza" are political organization that are looking to get power for Latinos INSIDE the American society, encouraging them to vote, protecting people with economical problems, and deffending causes in court.

 

It should be notice that every single group of people has some loonies. Latinos aren't the exception. And that's the case of the Nation of Aztlan.

 

  

 

the extra difference between me and an inuit or a zulu is an extra 0.002 percent, in reality no difference atall.

that is as different as anybody on earth can be from one another, if we talk appearance, im six feet six, it makes as much sence for me to dislike short people than someone born in a different climate, there are ginger haired new comers in australia who have skin cancers removed, there distant offspring in as little as three generations will not have this problem, various genes will be removed from the pool and the best one for the environment will be retained, providing good breeding takes place, ie if they live in a town full of very light skinned ginger haired people, this will fall flat.

race is a myth, look at the genetic adaptations of dogs.

im a trekkie, klingons and cardassians constitute a different race.

This is all to do with money and power.

And at the end of the day these extreme groups of any background or there deluded mindless followers will never get much of either.

it should be noted that strange as it sounds, there is a high chance that my ancestors, mixcoatls ancestors and pinguins ancestors are in places the exact same people, but we look different now if only a little bit.

when the word race gets used and its used in the news and by government i feel frustrated, there is no such thing its crazy talk.

The problem with Mexicans in the United States is the common hate they feel each other, because centuries of history.

 

Mexicans feel they are discriminated, and they are waiting for a "revenge".

 

But it won't be a violent revolt. What Hispanic prettend is to show AngloSaxons at theirs face Latinos can also become rich, and are smart enough to achieve anything a "white" can do.

 

And I bet they'll succeed on that.

 

 

 

Absolutely. Misbelief in race is the issue here.

 

You don't really believe that, do you?

If you look up history of immigrants to the United States I am not so sure you will find too much of that.

 

 

 

 

Well. At least I see that in the part of the Americas were I live. Once we where very generous to immigrants, today most people preffer they rather don't come. Attitutes have changed.

 

I bet one of the reason is that in the past immigrants where enterpreneurs, able to contribute to the development of countries. Today they are seen as an extra load to the social system and a nuisance.

 

In short, there have been a change from immigrants to poor economical refugees.

 

I bet people don't like the later at all.