swiss pikemen vs roman legion
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
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Forum Name: Historical Amusement
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URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21769
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 17:27
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Topic: swiss pikemen vs roman legion
Posted By: white knight
Subject: swiss pikemen vs roman legion
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2007 at 23:45
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plot: christian vatican vs the pagan roman empire.
Thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2007 at 02:32
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One, the Swiss pikeman did not deploy as the traditional Greek phalanx did. Two, the Roman legion did not fight in phalanx formation, but in maniples, in the triplex acies. (Only in the very early stages were phalanxes used). Three, the Roman Testudo was a later (late republic) construct used by the Roman legions, as a means of repelling missile attacks. It was not a melee fighting formation - so you can't really compare it to a swiss pikeman unit. Am I misinterpreting you? If so, can you elaborate a tad... ------------- |
Posted By: white knight
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2007 at 05:59
it is more like, what if the entire ancient roman empire vs the medieval vatican kind of war. Would the pontiff medieval body guards (swiss guards) can hold of the entire ancient roman army? who wins in this war?
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Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2007 at 06:08
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OK. Who wins the war, or who wins a battle. A battle is entirely dependent on the commander and circumstance (initial positions, army morale, landscape.etc). For the purpose of comparison though, I believe the Roman legions would prevail against the style of warfare of the Swiss pikeman. Note though, swiss pikeman were not necessarily Swiss Guards. Pikeman were usually equipped with pikes -funnily enough-, while the Swiss guards could wield anything from a halberd, axe, voulgier to a pike. Also fought in different formations. Regardless, my vote goes to the Romans. Note: Would you like me to change "Roman Testudo" to "Roman Legions" in the poll? Thanks, - Knights - ------------- |
Posted By: white knight
Date Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 04:42
| i guess castel sant'angelo can't hold the romans too ha? like the sack of rome (1527) by the holy roman empire. amazing, after 1500 years the romans (without gun powder) is still unbeatable. |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 04:58
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...I think the Papal defences would seriously mash up the Romans, despite their victory. But despite this, gunpowder doesn't matter because unless the pope has huge divsions of musketeers (anyway, matchlock muskets aren't that reliable), he can't hold of an entire maniple charge. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 21:18
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I vote for the Swiss now, and for the Incas before... I admire Swiss because theirs democracy, freedom and workmanship (in clocks), and also Incas because in theirs kingdom nobody suffered hunger.
Romans? Well, they keep enjoying gore spectacles alive in theirs circus.... disgusting people, at least for me.
I am really thinking I don't like Romans at all
 . Go Swiss go: pike the back of those dumb and selfish Romans! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2007 at 09:54
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Mustering on the field of battle the Swiss army settles in to camp for the night, warily eying the Romans across the plateau. Ignoring the obvious historical paradoxes, the Swiss decide that it's best not to ignore so many angry looking Italians with large knives. As the sun sets they take to the daily ritual of setting all theit clocks to the might war-clock mounted atop the mighty chronowagen. The battle will be faught at dawn, so they set their alarms for the predicted sunrise and prepare to sleep. 10 minutes before sunrise the Swiss are jolted awake to the sounds of the screaming wounded and the jarring sound of steel scraping bone. The accursed Romans had forgotten to set their clocks! The bastards were early! Promptly the Swiss assemble and democratically decide the best course of action is to flee screaming. Meanwhile the Romans enjoy the gore spectacle of the circus of an army they were fighting as the swiss are quickly turned the way of their cheese.  ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2007 at 12:58
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Ouch, nice one.
I'de put my money with Romans as, once they get into close combat with the pike men (assuming they all have pikes), they would slash them into little tiny pieces of cheese because the Gladius is much better then a huge stick with a metal point. Of course the Romans actully have to get past the points of the pikes. They could throw their Pila (if they have them at this time) which may disrupt the Swiss frontline and may even leave some holes. The Swiss had no shields so they have no defence against the Pila which then makes the Pila attack just that bit better.
So I guess as long as the Romans get into the Swiss formation, the Romans win..
*EDIT* As long as the Romans don't use tuestudo, god only knows why you would....
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Posted By: longshanks31
Date Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 22:55
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in the main and there will be those with bigger brains who will shoot me down for saying it, but the main point where the romans usually came unstuck were against enemies on horse back in particular but not soley in the case of the parthians,
with the exceptions of the different metals for weopons, ie metalurgy would be on the swiss side, the romans in a completely on foot battle would prove too formidable in my almost humble opinion. ------------- long live the king of bhutan |
Posted By: longshanks31
Date Posted: 18-Nov-2007 at 22:58
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breaking an enemy line was roman bread and butter, only if the swiss followed hannibles strategies would they have a prayer, but even hannible came unstuck in the end. ------------- long live the king of bhutan |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2007 at 00:23
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The whole reason why such pikemen came into creation in the first place was because of gunpowder, which effectively negated armour and traditional methods of war. The assumption for the pikemen would be that there would be at least one piece of artillery on their side, and they would be expecting the enemy to have the same dress because of this. If there was no artillery or small-arms, then there is no reason why the Romans couldn't simply crush their way through. ------------- |
Posted By: nova roma
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 08:50
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The testudo was used primarily as a defensive strategy against arrow fire right? So this makes little sense to me. If we're just talking Legionaires vs. Swiss Pikemen though, i'm gonna go with the Legionaires. Here's my logic: The swiss pikemen didn't really fight in a phalanx since they had no shields (though they were heavily armored I believe), it was more of a spear wall. If the romans could so easily defeat highly trained hoplites as they rampaged their way through greece in the 2nd century BC, why not pikemen? A pike is essentially a spear anyways. Plus, the pikemen were trained as support to protect gunpowder units from cavalry. As long as the Romans were able to get close, they would slaughter the pikemen. dang i love these hypotheticals |
Posted By: Sun Tzu
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2008 at 13:50
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Yea the Roman Short sword would weave its way throught the Spear wall and would slaughter the Swiss. ------------- Sun Tzu All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu |