KHAZAR AND KARAY PEOPLE
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ethnic History of Central Asia
Forum Discription: Discussions about the ethnic origins of Central Asian peoples. All topics related to ethnicity should go here.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21544
Printed Date: 27-Apr-2024 at 20:37
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: KHAZAR AND KARAY PEOPLE
Posted By: Guests
Subject: KHAZAR AND KARAY PEOPLE
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 09:08
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WHEN I COMING TO THIS SITE MY PURPOSE THI PROVED WHAT THE REAL ORIGIN OF MY PEOPLE I PROVE HERE THE TRUTHAND ONLY TRURH ABOUT KARAY TURKS . THIS TOPIC ABOUT KARAY TURK ORIGIN LANGUEGE AND CULTUR.
KARAY LANGUAGE
THIS IS FROM BOOK WHO BE PUBLISHED IN ISRAEL IN 2001 HIS NAME "THE KARAY COMMUNITY IN EASTREN EUROPE IN PAST AND TODAY" BY YOSEF ELGAMIL LECTURER TO KARAY HISTORY IN TEL AVIV UNUVERSITY
"LINGUIST WHO INVESTIGATORS TURKIC LANGUAGE VERY HAPPY TO DISCOVERD THE KARAY LANGUAGE:BECUSE THE KARAY CUMMUNITY INSULATED IN STRANGE PLACE KEEP THE KARAY LANGUAGE ELEMANT ARCHAIC FROM THE OLD TURKISH."
"THE KARAY INVESTIGATOR BORIS ELIYASHEVICH(1854-1940) ELIYASHEVICH TO INTEREST THE RUSSIAN TURKOLOG GORDALEVSKI AND HIM COME TO EVPATORIA(CRIMEA)TO INTERROGATE THE KARAY OLD LANGUAGE WHO HIM NOT KNOW BEFURE.HIM TO DISCOVER SCARCE TURKISH WORD AND THE GRAMMATICAL SYSTEM.GORDALEVSKI DISCOVER IN HELP OF ELIYASHEVICH ABOUT 100 KARI TURKISH WORDS WHO DONT EXIST IN CRIMEAN TATAR LANGUAGE .HIM DISCOVER ALSO WORD WHO NOT EXIST IN ANY OTHER TURKIC LANGUAGE DIALECT AND CHARACTERISTIC ONLY KARAY TURKISH LANGUAGE."
THIS DISCOVERY IMORTANTLY IS GREAT BECAUSE THIS PROVED WHO
KARAY LANGUAGE OLD FROM THE CRIMEAN TATAR LANGUAGE AND NOT POSSIBLE WHO THE KARAY PEOPLE TAKE THE LANGUAGE FROM THE CRIMEAN TATAR LIKE WHO THINK THE HISTORIANS BEFORE.AND PROVED WHO THIS INDEPENDENT LANGUAGE OF KARAY PEOPLE."
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Replies:
Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 09:25
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WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?
IS YOUR CAPLOCKS BUTTON STUCK?
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD?
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 09:47
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THIS PART 1 I CONTINUE IN OTHER TOPIC LATER |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 09:54
| BECAUSE DISTRIBUTED MANY FALSEHOOD ABOUT KHAZAR HISTORY AND KARAY HISTORY AND PEOPLE USE IN OUR HISTORY TO POLITICLY PURPOSES. |
Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 13:01
Whatever the case may be, turn the CAPS off because it is rude to type on a forum in this manner and it is hard on the eyes to read.
------------- http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas |
Posted By: khazaria
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 14:26
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Read Dan Shapira's research. It proves that ancestors of Crimean
Karaites and Lithuanian Karaites used to live in the Byzantine Empire,
including in the city of Istanbul, just a couple of centuries ago. Yes, there are words from the Cuman and Tatar languages in the Karaim language, and you have some Turkic culture that you have borrowed from your neighbors. They also lived at one time in the Golden Horde. That does not prove anything about your ancestry. You probably do have one or more kinds of Turkic ancestry, but there is no evidence that it comes from Khazars. The Khazars never practiced the Karaite form of Judaism. Karaites misuse Khazar history all the time, as a way to try to distance themselves from Rabbinical Jews, and to gain privileges and recognition from governments like they did in the Russian Empire and attempt to do today in Lithuania. So they make up stories like about how they supposedly were Lithuanian castle guards in Trakai, and they pretend that all the tombstones in an old cemetery at Chufut-Kale belong to them. |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 14:41
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I have to say that Karaims were indeed in military service in Lithuania and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, they indeed served in the Lithuanian Army as light cavalry. This is quite an established fact, as far as I know.
This fact IMO signifies that they have Turkic origins, since I don't know any other Jewish community in Europe which occupation was strictly military service.
Karaims are quite significant in this regard, since as Turks they were natural born mounted archers. ------------- Σαυρομάτης 
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Posted By: khazaria
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 14:46
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The idea that Karaites guarded the Trakai castle
is a myth invented by Abraham Firkovitch; see Dan Shapira, "Avraham
Firkowicz in Istanbul" (2003), page 77. Just because a myth is repeated over and over in many books and websites does not mean it is true. The Crimean and Lithuanian Karaites were regular folks with a wide range of occupations. |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 15:11
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khazaria, welcome to the forum. Your presence is appreciated. ------------- |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 15:19
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Well, in fact, this information if from Lithuanian chronicles. Karaims were officially divided into 2 parts military servicemen and civil karaims. The formers served in the Lithuanian army. This has nothing to do with Firkovitch, who actually believed that Karaims came to Crimea from Palestine. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 15:47
| KHAZARIA YOU HAVE POSITION ANTI KARITES THIS TYPICAL TO JEWS HISTORIANS THEY HAVE POSITION ANTI KARAY ABOUT OUR TURKISH ORIGIN.YOU NOT TURKOLOG AND YOU DOT KNOW OUR CULTUR CHARACTERISTIC.TO CORRECT MY IF I MISTAKEN. |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 16:10
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In fact, military achievements of Karaims were very appreciated in the Russian empire as well.
Perhaps, Karaims were the only national minority with the biggest number of officers in the Imperial army.
An interesting case from the Russian-Japanese war in 1905. Karaim officer in the Russian army Mark Tapsashar died in battle defending Port-Arthur, he killed 16 japanese soldiers and officers himself in hand-to-hand fighting on that day.
The copy of his sabre is still kept in the Imperial museum in Tokyo. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 16:46
WOW SARMAT YOU VERY GOOD IN KARAY HISTORY CORRECTLY.
THIS IS VERY IMPRESSIVE.
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 16:54
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Thanks KHAZARI, I think the history of your people is very interesting. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 17:10
Nobody has said anything against your Turkish origins my friend.
Are there many "Karite" or other Jews of Turkish origin or some ex-Ottoman heritage in Israel today? generally Jews and Turks have had what can be described as very good relations since they first met. ------------- What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. Albert Pine |
Posted By: khazaria
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2007 at 21:15
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There are some Karaite Jews living in northern Israel today. Yes, I do know many things about Karaites, have spoken with many of them, have read books about them, have seen photos of them, and I have genetically tested them. The indications are that their Turkic aspects come from Kipchaks and Crimean Tatars and not from the Khazars. I am not part of an "anti-Karaite" conspiracy. You should be happy that I agree that you have any Turkic ancestry at all. Some researchers of Karaites don't believe Karaites have any. I have met Kazakhs, Azeris, Anatolian Turks, Kumyks in person. I have also had lengthy email conversations with Kyrgyzes, Turkmens, Karaites, and Turkic-speaking Jews called Krymchaks. I also have had conversations with Turkologist linguists and historians. I know quite a lot about Turkic culture and I respect it. For many years I have maintained a directory of links to websites in all Turkic-speaking countries and regions. There were certainly many Karaites who served in military forces in eastern Europe over the centuries. I wasn't denying that. I was saying that it has been shown that Firkowicz invented the idea that Karaites guarded the Trakai castle. Yes, they were members of armies, but not the Trakai guard. Some of the "history" of Karaites comes from historical revisionism. Karaites two centuries ago weren't denying their Hebrew roots. It is often said that Krymchaks and Karaites were hard to tell apart, when people looked at them. Evidence from names and documents shows that Krymchaks are connected to Israelites, and it has some bearing on the Karaite question. Here I will quote from my book (2nd edition, chapter 10): "According to Anatoly Khazanov, the Krymchaks may have descended in part from the early Greek-speaking Jews of the Crimea. It is known that the Krymchaks also descended from many other Jewish emigrants from Europe (especially Spain and Italy) and the Middle East (especially Persia and Turkey). Some Ashkenazic family names found among the Krymchaks were Berman, Vejnberg, Fisher, Achkinazi, and Lurje, and other Krymchaks held surnames deriving from Italy, Spain, Turkey, and the Caucasus. In other words, the Krymchaks were a mix of Ashkenazim, Bavli (Babylonian), and Romaniote Jews." Both Krymchaks and Karaites have major roots in Greece and Turkey. Please also remember that western Turkey used to be ruled by Greeks. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 02:28
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SARAMAT THIS FOR YOU IN KARAY FOLKLORE WE HAVE TYPE OF SONG CALL "DESTAN" THIS TYPE SONGS TO PRAISE HEROS I FOUND DESTAN ABOUT TAPSASHAR THIS IN TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH(IN KARAY LANGUAGE THIS SOUND BETTER) "WE ARE LIEUTENNANT TAPSASHAR
HIM HERO HE IS GREAT
HIM KILKING MUCH JAPANESE
THEY MOTHERS TO CRY "
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 07:39
| Are there many "Karite" or other Jews of Turkish origin or some ex-Ottoman heritage in Israel today? generally Jews and Turks have had what can be described as very good relations since they first met. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 07:51
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SORRY FORMER POST THIS CITATION OF BULLDOG AND THE ANSWER THIS YES IN ISRAEL LIVING SOME HUNDRED CRIMEAN KARAITES AND JEWS FROM AZERBAIJAN(FROM TURK ORIGINׁ) ALSO IN ISRAEL LIVING AZERI MUSLIM WHO COME WITH THE AZERI JEWA IN ISRAEL COME MANY PEOPLE FROM ALL SOVIET UNION FORMER .MANY FROM THEY NOT JEWS .THEY COME TO ISRAEL BECEUSE ECONOMIC DISTRESS WHILE THEY FAKE TO JEWS.MANY FROM THEY ANTISEMITIC.IN MY CITY I KNOW UZBEK'S KAZAKH AND ALITTLE KIRGHIZ AND SOME FROM SIBERIA.I KNOW THEY VERY GOOD.I HAVE AZERIS FRIENDS. |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 10:16
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Khazari, the staff's instructions were not that difficult. Lower case letters. Period! After one post of proper follow thru you ignored this request yet again. ------------- |
Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 10:17
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Seko, I don't think he understands, or may be using an old computer. The one post that is in lower case is a quote, so he has yet to find the caps lock button at all.. ------------- |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 10:24
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He never told me that he doesn't understand. He seems able to respond to posts yet not to staff recommendations? ------------- |
Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 10:33
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Dont know....
Either way, my guess is that he'll be back... ------------- |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 17:15
don't know what Ashkenazi includes but names like Berman, Vejnberg (Weinberg) and Fisher (Fischer) are clearly German (Yiddish), so not from the eastern mediterranean. ------------- |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2007 at 17:44
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Well, unlike Karaims or Karais, Krymchaks never claimed that they are Turks. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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