Archaeology & Anthropology: My Genographic Study

Originally posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b

In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetics - human genetics , Haplogroup R1b (M343) (previously called Hg1 and Eu18) is the most frequent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_chromosome - Y-chromosome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup - haplogroup in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Europe - Western Europe .

Its frequency is highest in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Europe - Western Europe , especially in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Europe - Atlantic Europe (and due to European emigration, in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America - North America ^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources -}

Posted By: Cent
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:42

Interesting!

I would also like to do a genographic study, how does one apply?

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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:42

Originally posted by Zagros

Afghanan, I can say to you that i predicted your result before opening the thread!

Zagros,

How so?

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 14:54

Originally posted by Cent

Interesting!

I would also like to do a genographic study, how does one apply?

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html - https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 17:08

Well I had a feeling it would be based on what I have seen on pashtun genetics.

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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2007 at 23:24

Originally posted by Afghanan

Originally posted by Cent

Interesting!

I would also like to do a genographic study, how does one apply?

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html - https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html

Dienekes posted an interesting study on your haplogroup, R1a1. Ancient South Siberian DNA was analyzed, and this haplogroup was found, showing evidence of Caucasoid presence in the region many years ago.

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2007 at 19:54

Can you find a link for it?

It's interesting how versatile my Haplogroup is. It also makes the world much smaller now.

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2007 at 09:40

Originally posted by Afghanan

Can you find a link for it?

It's interesting how versatile my Haplogroup is. It also makes the world much smaller now.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com - http://dienekes.blogspot.com

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2007 at 00:18

Thanks Dinakos,

I was reading through some of the different articles I uncovered about the Siberian mummies and I came upon an article that tagged all the different STR's from different grave sites.

They had these codes on them that I dont understand fully. I know that they signify the amount of mutations, but when I looked at the study from Siberia, I found many of the same mutations in those mummys in my own report.

Does that simply mean that they signify the pattern of R1a1?

This is the article I read:

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v73n2/35013/35013.web.pdf - http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v73n2/35013/35013.web.pdf

Look at page 8. Lots of those "DYS" are very similar, if not exactly like mine. Granted they are not from the same people , but almost all of my STR's match or come very close to these.

Here is my STR profile:

Type: Y-Chromosome
Haplogroup: R1a1 (M17)

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Traveller
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2007 at 01:59

Originally posted by Afghanan

I recently contributed to the Genographic Project sponsored by the Wyatt Family Foundation, IBM, and The National Geographic Society, and my results are listed below:

Heres a few quotes from the study:

My Haplogroup R1a1 M17:

Fast Facts

Time of Emergence: 10,000 to 15,000 years ago

Place of Birth: Ukraine or southern Russia

Climate: Glaciers are retreating

Estimated Number of Homo sapiens: A few million

Tools and Skills: Possibly the first people to domesticate the horse

More info on my Haplogroup:

Today a large concentration�around 40 percent�of the men living in the Czech Republic across the steppes to Siberia, and south throughout Central Asia are members of haplogroup R1a1. In India, around 35 percent of the men in Hindi-speaking populations belong to this group. The M17 marker is found in only five to ten percent of Middle Eastern men. The marker is also found in relatively high frequency�around 35 percent�among men living on the eastern side of present-day Iran.

Are we sure this haplogroup originated in Ukraine or southern Russia 10 to 15 thousand years ago?

One average estimate for the origin of this line in India is as much as 51,000 years. All this suggests that M17 could have found his way initially from India or Pakistan, through Kashmir, then via Central Asia and Russia, before finally coming into Europe".

For those who chose to criticize my statements, you will have to realize that you are stuck in the late 1990s where it was simply a given that M17 emerged in the Ukraine. This pillar is crumbling under the weight of solid evidence to the contrary.

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2005-02/1107793760 - http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2005-02/1107793760

PS:Why is the font size of my post so small?

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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2007 at 21:43

Traveller,

That doesnt make any sense. If M17's oldest ancestor (M168) left Africa at 45,000 yrs ago, how could M17 be older than its own ancestor?

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Traveller
Date Posted: 25-Jun-2007 at 10:03

Afghanan,

The usual estimate for leaving Africa is 70-50 K.

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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 27-Jun-2007 at 15:04

That still doesnt explain how M17 can be older than it's own predecessors M89, or M9, or others for that matter.

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Traveller
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2007 at 08:01

That must mean that either it's not true or that they're older than it.

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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2007 at 00:15

So the scientists around the world who have come up with the ages of these haplogroups are wrong because you or Oppenheimer say so?

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Traveller
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 22:58

What scientists? Cite some sources. Scientists themselves contradict each other in their dates.

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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 13:49

You didnt mention your research's scientists either BTW. For the study of Haplogroups that are related to my own (M17) and other Eurasian haplogroups, there are many scientists, you can find the entire list here:

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/about.html - https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/about.html

I have also provided you with a list of some of the more modern researchers who agree with these accounts, some of them as you will notice were related in the project of studying Eurasian haplogroups:

R. Spencer Wells (Genographic Project) Nadira Yuldasheva, Ruslan Ruzibakiev, Peter A. Underhill, Irina Evseeva, Jason Blue-Smith, Li Jin, Bing Su, Ramasamy Pitchappan, Sadagopal Shanmugalakshmi, Karuppiah Balakrishnan, Mark Read, Nathaniel M. Pearson, Tatiana Zerjal, Matthew T. Webster, Irakli Zholoshvili, Elena Jamarjashvili, Spartak Gambarov, Behrouz Nikbin, Ashur Dostiev, Ogonazar Aknazarov, Pierre Zalloua, Igor Tsoy, Mikhail Kitaev, Mirsaid Mirrakhimov, Ashir Chariev, and Walter F. Bodmer

Some of the different organizations, schools, and laboroties involved are:

Imperial Cancer Research Fund Cancer and Immunogenetics Laboratory and Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics, University of Oxford, Headington OX3 9DS, United Kingdom

Institute of Immunology, Academy of Sciences, Tashkent, Uzbekistan

Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, CA 94305

Department of Medical Genetics, Archangelsk State Medical Academy, Archangelsk, Russia

Department of Human Genetics, School of Public Health, University of Texas, Houston, TX 77030

Centre for Advanced Studies in Functional Genomics, School of Biological Sciences, Madurai Kamaraj University, Madurai, India

Department of Ecology and Evolution, University of Chicago, Chicago, IL 60637

Department of Biochemistry, University of Oxford, Oxford OX3 1QU, United Kingdom

Institute of Molecular Medicine, University of Oxford, Headington OX3 9DS, United Kingdom

Department of Pediatrics, State Medical Institute, Tbilisi, Georgia

Immunology Laboratory, Mikaelin Surgical Institute, Yerevan, Armenia

Department of Immunology, University of Medical Sciences, Tehran 14496, Iran

Tajik State Medical Institute, Dushanbe, Tajikistan; Pamir Biological Laboratory, Khorog, Tajikistan

Genetics Research Laboratory, Chronic Care Center, Hazmieh, Lebanon

Institute of Nutrition, Almaty, Kazakstan

Institute of Cardiology, Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan

State Medical Institute, Ashgabad, Turkmenistan

- You can find their research results in my initial postings or you can click to read the full article here:

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/98/18/10244 - http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/98/18/10244

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 16:24

awesome, thanks for sharing. It is pretty occurate along with what I always thought though

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History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2007 at 22:25

Yeah, unfortunately there are many people within Afghanistan who are ignorant of the fact. Many still believe they are descendants of Israelites or Alexander the Great.

Honorable as they are, the truth is they are infact related to the Scythians and original Iranians than anything else.

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Conservative
Date Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 20:36

I took my test with Genebase. Not a great company... Very slow with the results. At first they did a Y-DNA STR test for me. I paid for a 44 marker test and after doing two runs of my sample they came back with 55 markers for me and predicted from the results that i belonged to haplogroup Q which is the haplogroup associated with Native Americans,

lol...

They offered to confirm my haplogroup if i paid for the Y-DNA SNP test which i did, and now my results for that currently show 19 mutations and that i actually belong to haplogroup R. Im expecting that they will soon reveal which sub-group of R i belong within the next couple of weeks.

The Q prediction surprised me but after doing the SNP test im not surprised at belonging to haplogroup R as it was the second most common haplogroup type found in a study done on Iranians from sample of people drawn from both northern and southern Iran.

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 10-Jan-2008 at 20:43

I believe Zagros (I think he's Kurdi) was also in the R haplogroup, but R1b.

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 02:30

Is R1b common across Eurasia? or is it R1a?

Conservative, if we go back far enough we all have the same ancestor so having various genetic make-ups shouldn't come as a shock unless you can trace your family tree back a few thousand years.

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�What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.�
Albert Pine

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 17:31

I believe R1a and R1b are fairly similar, but their descendants are very polar.

R1a is more Common in Eurasia while R1b is more common in Western Europe:

The Red is R1b the Magenta is R1a:

Source:

Haplogroup R1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1_%28Y-DNA%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1_%28Y-DNA%29

Quotes from the link above:

"R1a likely originated in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Steppes - Eurasian Steppes , and may be associated with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan - Kurgan culture and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans - Proto-Indo-European expansion. It is primarily found in Central and Western Asia, India, and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples - Slavic peoples of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe - Eastern Europe , as well as among some populations of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia - Mongolia and southern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia - Siberia , where it might reflect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian - Scythian influences of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_antiquity - classical antiquity . "

"Haplogroup R1b originated prior to or during the last glaciation, when it was concentrated in refugia in southern Europe and the Aegean. It is the most common haplogroup in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Europe - Western Europe , but has been found at low frequency as far away as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran - Iran and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea - Korea . It is also found in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa - North Africa where its frequency surpasses 10% in some parts of Algeria^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1_%28Y-DNA%29#_note-0 - [2]}. In south-eastern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England - England the frequency of R1b is about 70%; in parts of the rest of north and western http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England - England , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain - Spain , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal - Portugal , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales - Wales and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland - Ireland , it is as high as 90%; and in parts of north-western Ireland it reaches 98%."

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 19:35

How is there so much R1a in Scandanavia? is it due to Uralic migrations to the region?

Does AL represent Altai? its interesting that they have the highest R1a and that its so different to their Mongol neighbours and members of the same linguistic family.

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�What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.�
Albert Pine

Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 21:28

That's right, I am R1b: my tribe (Lart - Lori/Bakhtiari) is originally from Pars and was deported to Kermanshah in the middle ages. I think that R1b is most common among Kurds, North Persians (Gilani, Mazandarani, Tehrani etc), Azeris and Armenians in the greater Iran context.

Language can change as we see with the Arabisation of the northern parts of the middle east in post classical times. I think what we may see there is the result of assimilation.

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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 21:43

I don't think its just a result of assimilation.

The northern parts of the middle east became full-fledged Arabs and wern't forced to be so.

Nations rise and fall, being part of a nation has little to do with genetics. We could argue that every society is the result of assimilation, before the Iranics came to the Middle East there were people speaking different languages, not all peoples genetics in Iran are the same, there are some Persians who are Black, so being part of a nation is more to do with language, identity, history, tribes, clans and other socio-cultural factors.

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�What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.�
Albert Pine

Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2008 at 21:46

I didn't mention forced assimilation. Assimilation can happen naturally from change of circumstances - that is what happened in Iran and that is what happened to previously non-Arab parts of the middle east and that probably happened in CA.

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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 05-May-2008 at 03:16

In CA I believe its easier to retain your identity and language because of its isolation from the outside world.

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak

Posted By: Odin
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 05:06

I did this about a year ago and my Y-DNA result was I1a, very common in Scandianvia

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"Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now."

-Arnold J. Toynbee

Posted By: MarcoPolo
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2009 at 15:28

This is very facinating stuff. I'm curious, I went to the national geographic link ( https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html - https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/participate.html ). And it states that you have an option of either checking m-DNA OR Y-chromosomes. Im undecided as to which one to do? What do you guys suggest?

Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2009 at 19:41

I did paternal because I wanted to settle the dispute as to whether the Ghaljai (aka Khalaj/Ghilzai/Khilji) were Turks or Indo-Iranians. My father's paternal ancestry is Ghaljai as far as they can remember.

After I recieved my results and saw R1a1, that proved to me without a doubt that the historians were correct in their theory that the Ghalaj were infact Indo-Iranians. This matches the historical accounts which state that the Ghaljai were Turks who did not associate with other Turks and occupied Tokharistan, the same region where the White Huns occupied.

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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak