Aya Sophia
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Historical Arts and Architecture
Forum Discription: Discuss arts, literature, and architecture before the 19th century
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16668
Printed Date: 17-May-2024 at 10:02
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Aya Sophia
Posted By: eaglecap
Subject: Aya Sophia
Date Posted: 23-Dec-2006 at 20:05
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In the time I spent in Istanbul I visited the Agia Sophia or Church of the Holy Wisdom five times. I am going to have to start researching for more primary sources about that ancient icon to two major religions today. I am glad it is a museum today and not a church or a Mosque!! I have always had a draw to the Agia Sophia since I first read about it years ago. I would spend 2-3 hours in there just walking around and looking and I just could not leave. It was like some invisible force kept me there and in many ways I think I left my soul behind because my mind is still there. For Greeks and Greeks Americans it is a cultural magnet and besides the ancestral connection there was so much drama that took place there. I have ordered the book O' Byzantium from the library so maybe it will mention the Agia Sophia as well. I would also sit in the park between the Blue Mosque and the great church and just stare at it for an hour or so, only a history nerd would do that. The Alexiad mentions it briefly but I need to find more sources.
------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Replies:
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 12-Jan-2007 at 23:49
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One of my former Turkish students sent me a pic he took of the Agia Sophia with only one mineret showing so we took it out in photo shop. I want to find a recreation painting of Agia Sophia online with the cross on top so I can copy it with photo shop and replace the half moon on the church with a cross. Does anyone know of such an image???? ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Lepidodendron
Date Posted: 13-Jan-2007 at 11:59
| Try this one, which is on a pretty cool site: http://www.byzantium1200.com/hagia.html - http://www.byzantium1200.com/hagia.html |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 13-Jan-2007 at 14:02
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Wow- it is nice to get an idea or glimpse of what my Greek Byzantine ancestors might have seen it as.
many thanks ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: the_oz
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2007 at 14:04
| i wonder how was hagia sophia's look before it burnt down. |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2007 at 14:11
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hmm before 404 ay OMG I did some research this beatifull building has suffered alot but yet its still standing. I just found out that it was build over the ruins of 2 old churches in 537. this one is true one of my favourite buildings greek architecture at it's best  ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 15-Jan-2007 at 10:08
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Also the crusader#s really damaged it, one of the domes had collapsed and the other one was leaking, then Kodja Sinan added his Dome style to it to save the building. ------------- What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. Albert Pine |
Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 15-Jan-2007 at 10:30
well, it's true that the crusaders severelly damaged the temple, but I never heard that the dome had collapsed. In any case, there's only 1 dome, not 2!
------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 15-Jan-2007 at 11:09
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There's some semi-domes on the side and they were leaking, its fair to say that the Crusaders mistreated the building the most, also they changed it into a Cathedral but for some reason most of this is ignored. ------------- What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. Albert Pine |
Posted By: Lepidodendron
Date Posted: 15-Jan-2007 at 16:00
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That is not surprising, since the Latin Emperors of Constantinople were in dire financial need for the greater part of their reign. The confiscation of funds intended for maintenance of the Aya Sofia (normally a fixed part of the state budget) would have been a natural consequence. Not that it accomplished anything. |
Posted By: Patrinos
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 07:18
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I should say that Turks respected Hagia Sophia much more than Latins...there is an incident in 1204 when the latter placed a prostitute in the Patriarch's throne inside H.S.... ------------- "Hellenes are crazy but they have a wise God" Kolokotronis |
Posted By: Batu
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 11:29
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Hagia Sophia brings tourists,of course we respect it.:) ------------- A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari ) |
Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 12:26
It does, but be prepared for a sad story. Much of Choniates' account is in the form of a lament for Constantinople and its monuments during the destruction of the Fourth Crusade. He is especially descriptive of the desecration of the altar and patriarch's throne in the Hagia Sophia by the crusaders.
------------- http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas |
Posted By: konstantinius
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 14:40
Is this the only reason? The money it brings from tourism? ------------- " I do disagree with what you say but I'll defend to my death your right to do so." |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 15:28
I think that s a verry incorrect awnser . The aya sofya is a magnifesent building it's averry important building for Turkish culture who isn't only Central asian you know. Most mosk that the ottomans made were more or less copies of this temple..... This building inb my eyes does not belong to the turks or greks but too the world because of its beauty ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 17:44
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Please stop pretending your personal opinions represents everyone. There is no "correct" or "incorrect" answer, its all based upon perception, you can either love it or hate it.
It get's pretty tiring when people begin the old, " ooooooh its so great for "all" Turks or oooh its a load of "crap" according to all Turks"
Give your own opinions and stop this ridiculous attitude that "your" opinion represents an entire nation.
Most Ottoman building's were not "copies", the Blue Mosque was a reply to the Aya Sofya, Sulemaniye has an influence, where-as Selimiye influence is in the famous Ilkhanid mosque complex. To make such a sweeping comment is ludacris and thinking that Ottoman architecture only included mosque's is even worse. There are many non-religous and civic Ottoman masterpieces, the grand palaces, fountains, towers, town layouts, courtly homes, trainstations/ports, bridges etc etc etc
------------- What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. Albert Pine |
Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 23:32
LOL not another Hagia Sophia "battle" please. 
I agree with Bulldog that we shouldn't make such sweeping judgments but Bulldog, take it easy there!
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Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2007 at 23:41
Yes, a very wise suggestion indeed. Let's talk about the cathedral in the Byzantino-Ottoman historical context rather than in nationalistic squabbles. I tried to get the ball rolling in my post about Choniates, but everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring it!
 ------------- http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 17-Jan-2007 at 07:47
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The Zeyrek Church is another great example of Byzantine architecture and has been restored very well recently. ------------- What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. Albert Pine |
Posted By: the_oz
Date Posted: 17-Jan-2007 at 13:02
we respect it because it is symbol of istanbul. |
Posted By: arch.buff
Date Posted: 17-Jan-2007 at 18:28
Wait a minute here. Lets not act too nationalistic. Bulldog, are you implying that the Hagia Sophia did not have an immense influence on the mosques that were to spring up after the Turks took over the area? ------------- Be a servant to all, that is a quality of a King. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 17-Jan-2007 at 19:11
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Ofcourse it had an influence where did I state it didn't, I simply pointed out it was just one of them in addition to totally new concepts invented by the Ottomans. ------------- What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. Albert Pine |
Posted By: Batu
Date Posted: 18-Jan-2007 at 11:52
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i just made a joke, ok?.i visitied the building several times and
totally liked it.but i can make jokes about it right? .Hagia Sophia is
a magical mosque/basilica.its one of the greatest buildings of the
world.its so big that it should be called Huge Sophia.these were my
real opinions anyway. (P.S. it brings money. :) ------------- A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari ) |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 12:34
magical, YES!!! espeicially for Greeks and other people of shared Orthodox and Balkan heritage. I toured it five times and walked around in it usually an hour to three hours. I could not see this great church having much meaning to the Japanese and Korean tourists I saw there but even for the Turks this building is special. It should stay a museum!! I will have the picture of it finished soon with the mineret taken out and the gold Byzantine cross put on top. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2007 at 14:09
Sadly. I had to return my library copy back to the Bing Crosby Library at Gonzaga University but I requested it again. I have a picture of the church a Turkish friend took with his digital camera so a friend here took off the mineret showing and then put on a gold Byzantine cross so as soon as I can I will post it. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Batu
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 15:49
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why do you want to see Hagia Sophia without minarets and with golden crosses? yes,historically it was church many years ago,but its a historical mosque aswell. ------------- A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari ) |
Posted By: Jagatai Khan
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 16:30
As said, Aya Sophia was a model for Ottoman Mosques, for example Mimar Sinan once had said that "I built Selimiye's dome 3x larger than Aya Sophia's, to answer some Christians who are telling me about Aya Sophia's dome" ------------- |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 16:16
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Batu I did it because I am half Greek and it was part of my Greek-Byzantine heritage and I with my mind often in the past I wanted to get an idea of what it was as a church. Of course, I am very happy it is a museum and I do not want to see it turned into a Mosque or church again. I respect the fact that Muslim Turks had it as a Mosque for 500 years. I am not Orthodox Christian and the museum status brings in many tourists and helps the Turkish economy.
As soon as my friend emails the pic to me I will try and post it on this forum but it is amazing what they can do in photo shop. I will also add on a pic of the Galata tower. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: the_oz
Date Posted: 13-May-2007 at 07:17
hagia sophia before 1453:  |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 19-May-2008 at 12:03
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That building is incredible - but have you see the Aya Irene? Which was used by the Ottoman Sultans as a treasury? It's a fairly large (but it looks like a Parish Chapel in comparison to that behemoth!) but usually locked and mainly forgotten. I had the pleasure to watch the Daniel Barenboim concert in there a few years ago! ------------- |
Posted By: Odin
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2008 at 00:11
The Hagia Sophia is one of my favorite buildings and is one of the things I want to visit before I die! The place is THE masterpiece of Early Byzantine architecture and is a defining element of Istanbul. I have a friend who stayed in Turkey for a week over spring break and she said that the Hagia Sophia made her almost fall to the ground in awe. ------------- "Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now." -Arnold J. Toynbee |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2008 at 05:14
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Hagia Sophia Floor Plan:
I think it was a copy of the palace of Shapur I at Bishpur which was built in the 3rd century:
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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 27-Jun-2008 at 15:59
No, it was not. Until Justinian's time the Byzantine churches were of one of two types: nave plan or central plan (the central plan was having a circulary organization and a central dome). Justinian thinked to combine the two and did it first at Saint Serge and Bacchus: 
http://www.skt.org.uk/CJdeM1314/The_Church_of_St_Sergius_and_St_Bacchus_TR.html - http://www.skt.org.uk/CJdeM1314/The_Church_of_St_Sergius_and_St_Bacchus_TR.html Than he made the reconstruction of Hagia Sophia in the same idea. And since than all the Eastern church buildings are combining the nave and the dome. -------------  |
Posted By: DokDi
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2008 at 11:56
| Could you give me contact info, preferable email addy, for originator of this photo? Thanks. |
Posted By: DokDi
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2008 at 12:04
| Why without minarets? Usually I admire Islamic architecture, but these minarets look like phallic rockets, not the usually graceful and lofty structures that rise like ascending prayers. |
Posted By: DokDi
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2008 at 12:09
| Do you have email addy for your friend who did the photo without minarets? Thanks. |
Posted By: Bernard Woolley
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2008 at 02:02
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I went to Istanbul earlier this year (by far my favourite vacation so far). We arrived at our hotel late at night, so we only had a very general idea of where we were. I can't describe how surprised we were when the call to prayer woke us up and we looked out the window: http://image69.webshots.com/169/2/6/63/2840206630102940805MimiJp_fs.jpg
Of the photos we took of the Ayasofya, this one was my favourite: http://image69.webshots.com/169/6/61/83/2926661830102940805urGVRR_fs.jpg I'm not sure why I like having those electric cables in the photo, maybe it just throws into relief how much the world has changed and grown around this building over the centuries. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2010 at 17:00
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You have seen nothing until you see Istanbul from the sea! The Blue Mosque, the Hagia Sophia, and the Ottoman palaces are very visible from a cruise ship like I was able to take, in 1999!
I have some wonderful video of it! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |