Eunuch ???
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15860
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 00:30
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Eunuch ???
Posted By: Mordoth
Subject: Eunuch ???
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 11:00
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Errm , i can not find the word " Eunuch " in my dictionary and i desire to know what the word " Eunuch " implies ?
Do they mean devshirme
? ------------- If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :| |
Replies:
Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 11:02
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No, enuch means castred. Generally it is used in reference of the slave "admin" who for various reasons had their balls chopped off. Usually they were the ones in the harems. But not only.
------------- I am a free donkey! |
Posted By: Seljuk
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 13:11
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It is 'hadım' in turkish. They are devshirmes (of course not all devshirmes are hadım)and apart from harems there were pretty many of them in adminastration including chief viziers (like Hadım Ali Pasha). ------------- 
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Posted By: The Hidden Face
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 14:09
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Noun 1. a man who has been castrated and is incapable of reproduction; "eunuchs guarded the harem" (synonym) castrate (hypernym) man, adult male. ------------- |
Posted By: Mordoth
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2006 at 20:09
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Uh huh , thanks for the explanations .
HAdim huh :-s
Wow ... ------------- If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :| |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 04:04
Castrate is not a complete synonym. Castrate is only used when the man in question was a singer. In the Early Modern age, boys with exeptionally beautiful singing voices were 'operated' like this before puberty to keep their voice from changing. They were very highly valued in Italy for example, but not much appreciated in the northern European countries.
The last known Castrato singer died at the beginning of the 20th century. There are still some records of his voice. ------------- 
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Mughal e Azam
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 06:12
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Why were eunuchs important? What function did they serve? If you want a man with no balls, why not just get a female? Why do it? ------------- Mughal e Azam |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 07:15
I don't know if your aware Mughaal but gender equality wasn't a well developed concept in those times. Men were chosen because they thought men were more competent at their jobs than women. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 13:08
Some were very important. Chen He, the famous Chinese admirald that reached Africa with his fleet, was an eunuch. Eunuchs were usually employed to protect women in harems... That's why they were made eunuchs in the first place. ------------- |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 19:45
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castrates would sometimes reach high offices because there was no chance they would rebel and establish their own dynasty, that was the main reason. some people even by their own allowed them to be castrated to reach such high offices at all.
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Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 20:07
Great insight Temujin!
the Caliph Al-Amin owned about 7000 black http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch - eunuchs (who were completely emasculated) and 4000 white eunuchs (who were castrated). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade#_note-52 - [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
Why were the blacks and whites treated differently? is the emphasis misplaced by the choise of words used for each. So in the above case what would be the difference between complete emasculationa, and castration. This practice is putting me off the Abbasids.
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Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2008 at 20:23
The difference I think is that in castration you can still use your penis to urinate and such, but with demasculation I believe the practice either completely removed the penis, or a new hole was cut in to provide passage of waste. I read that Zheng He wore special sticks in his hair for the purpose of aiding in going the bathroom, I think it was in 1421: The Year China discovered America, Menzies gave quite the descriptive account on Chinese Eunuchs. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 06:12
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A worthy topic. Eunuchs were considered useful servants in many parts
of the world. Although they themselves were as prone to palace intrigue
as most other members of the court, for the most part they were
dependable and could not harbour personal ambitions for the top job.
This is because they could not produce their own dynasty. In the case of Byzantium, on many occasions the Emperor felt most comfortable sending out an army under the command of a eunuch. Placing the army under the command of an especially capable commander was a dangerous thing to an Emperor, yet a eunuch could generally be relied upon to not turn the army against his master. The most successful example of this is Narses, who won his battles with the precision of a mathmatician. There was no gallantry or flambouyance from that shrivelled up old Armenian in his 80s - just faithful service. As has already been stated, women were considered the physical and intellectual inferior of men. They were neither considered suitable for holding command, nor for fulfilling important roles in the court or palace bureaucracy. This is just my own personal musing, but I do think that having one's balls removed would give a man a more urbane and obedient temperament. ------------- |
Posted By: Windemere
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2008 at 21:06
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The Chinese and Turkish Emperors had hundreds of wives and concubines, more than they could keep track of. But they needed to make sure that they ( the Emperor) was the father of any children produced. So the wives and concubines were shut away in harems, and the only men (other than the Emperors) allowed access to them were eunuchs, who cared for them but couldn't impregnate them, thus ensuring that the Emperor was the father of any children that were produced. ------------- Windemere |
Posted By: Mughal e Azam
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2008 at 21:19
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Another question, whats the use of so many women?
------------- Mughal e Azam |
Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2008 at 23:32
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That should be obvious, Mughaal. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2008 at 08:10
Start thinking like a Mughaal, Mughaal. ------------- |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2012 at 19:25
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It's an ancient practise: Assyrian and Babylonian emperors used eunuchs as administrators and harem guards (including the sons of a captured Hebrew king). The Romans used them as male prostitutes ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2012 at 19:26
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Bagoas was a Persian eunuch who became the lover of Alexander the Great. He convinced the king to assimilate conquered nations to prolong the empire
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2012 at 19:28
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The chief eunuch of the Turkish sultan's harem was black as Africans were deemed more trustworthy than whites. The operation involved all external genitalia being swept away with a razor blade, a metal or bamboo tube stuck into the wound, and the patient being buried up to his neck in hot sand. Only 10 percent survived
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2012 at 19:05
 Eunuch guarding a harem in Tunisia ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:40
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Where did the Arabic word "Harem" originate? It sounds very similar to "haraam" - forbidden
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: kofi
Date Posted: 09-May-2013 at 21:11
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Yes Haram and harem same Harem is part of the house where only husband and close relatives can enter so the women and kids can fee safe Nowdays most servants in a rich mans harem are women But in past times EUNUCHS (khassi) also worked there All African, all cut clean (majbub) Today not so many! Though I am one Kofi ------------- Kofi |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 10-May-2013 at 14:11
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Castrates lack testosterone, and so are not prone to agression or combativeness and were therefore seen as trustowrthy in the presence of the ruling class. It was also felt that removing all worldly temptation from a male made him a better and more focused servant. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 12-May-2013 at 13:04
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Top 10 Fascinating Eunuchs
http://listverse.com/2012/11/09/top-10-famous-eunuchs/ ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 12-May-2013 at 19:51
Nevertheless, some eunuchs became admirals and generals, most notably the 6th century Roman commander Narses ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 12-May-2013 at 22:43
Yep, and so did assorted homosexuals, idiots and various others with significant character disorders, physical disabilities and what have you. There isn't anything sacred about becoming a general or an admiral, particularly in ancient times. In fact, a lot of very disturbed people became rulers at various times, proving the old adage that such people are like cream...left alone, they rise to the top. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 12-May-2013 at 22:45
I'm not surprised. I would imagine that 90% of healthy people would die if treated that way. The Chinese bound the wound up with rice paper and left it alone until it healed. Most of the castrates survived. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Jinit
Date Posted: 12-May-2013 at 23:07
Malik Kafur who created havoc all over India was also an Eunuch in the service of Alla-ud-din khalji. He looted and destroyed many hindu temples. It is said that during his single campaign in south India he looted the wealth worth 250 tones of Gold and 700 elephants laden with treasury!!! (famous Koh-I-Noor being one of them ;) ) |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 13-May-2013 at 10:19
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Le Van Duyet, the warlord of Southern Vietnam during the early 1800s was not only a eunuch but the major reason that Gia Long succeeded to the title of Emperor. Duyet adopted two sons. When his tomb was desecrated on royal order as a form of post-mortem punishment, his adopted son Le Van Khoi led a revolt that lasted nearly five years and came close to toppling the Nguyen dynasty.
So the Vietnamese kings and emperors also employed eunuchs. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |